Gps Positioning Of Lofts

[Walter swanston]

Question: If you use two separate systems to determine a loft position and you end up with a difference of 18 yards for the longest race, how do you decide which system is the most accurate!

This is not a hypothetical question.

[philg50]

At one time of day it was as you will know a needle and map job, now its GPS this form of position finding as far as i have been told can pin point you to a specific square mtr ,where as the old system could give you your whole back yard to play with .

[andy Burgess]

Question: If you use two separate systems to determine a loft position and you end up with a difference of 18 yards for the longest race, how do you decide which system is the most accurate!

This is not a hypothetical question.

 

why confuse the issue and use 2 methods of measurement ??

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Walter, I think the point of the matter is that the most accurate system is the one adopted by the Union in question. There may be many GPS measuring systems and if they are all used then the results would be the same as pin and map with the same inaccuracies.

Once the Union has adopted a system to use, these inaccuracies are removed as far as is possible since all areas will be using the same system. I believe that some form of corrective computer programme is required for some, if not all, of the systems.

I appreciate your question is not hypothetical since your Federation has already used a GPS system and is now being required to re-measure using a different system. Some differences are bound to appear.

[paddymac]

why confuse the issue and use 2 methods of measurement ??

Thats what I'm thinking Andy :emoticon-0138-thinking:

[Walter swanston]

Walter, I think the point of the matter is that the most accurate system is the one adopted by the Union in question. There may be many GPS measuring systems and if they are all used then the results would be the same as pin and map with the same inaccuracies.

Once the Union has adopted a system to use, these inaccuracies are removed as far as is possible since all areas will be using the same system. I believe that some form of corrective computer programme is required for some, if not all, of the systems.

I appreciate your question is not hypothetical since your Federation has already used a GPS system and is now being required to re-measure using a different system. Some differences are bound to appear.

[Walter swanston]

Your points are valid and accepted but it would still be interesting to know which system is the more accurate.I have been told a lot depends on the number of satellites acquired but I must courteously point out that one system is simplicity itself to use not so sure about the other.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Walter, it used to be the case that inaccuracies were built into these devices for defence reasons. I think these have now been removed, but I am unsure about this.

[ovy1255]

as long as a common base is used there will be no variation--so gps measure with the same system.

the NEHU has the same dilema with time variation between radio signals on some clocks and GPS time signal on others.

[Guest IB]

SHU to be single system from 2016 = GPS. So reckon that says GPS is the most accurate.

[REDROCKET]

Although the GPS can pin point the position of your loft how accurate is it to pin point the position of the transporter at the race points are they in the exact same location every time they go to each site after all it only takes a second to win or loss a race.

[Walter swanston]

Although the GPS can pin point the position of your loft how accurate is it to pin point the position of the transporter at the race points are they in the exact same location every time they go to each site after all it only takes a second to win or loss a race.

 

Correct Redrocket,that is the built in inaccuracy which makes the whole argument preposterous.

[Tony C]

http://www.27829.mrsite.com/page18.htm

 

The very last sentence may help you with your query.

[ally mac]

Gps is very accurate though not guaranteed, could be up to 20 metres out, as long as it is being used correctly using the correct datum for the chart/map the position is being plotted on.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

SHU to be single system from 2016 = GPS. So reckon that says GPS is the most accurate.

 

This is what Walter is talking about. Solway measured using Garmin? and the SHU are using Benzing, so Walter has noticed a difference in the systems having now re-measured using Benzing.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Although the GPS can pin point the position of your loft how accurate is it to pin point the position of the transporter at the race points are they in the exact same location every time they go to each site after all it only takes a second to win or loss a race.

 

This is just another of the variations that cause the inequalities within pigeon racing. There is nothing fair or precise within the hobby.

 

Pinpoints on maps or GPS, the accuracy of both matter not a jot with regard to race distance, except that there is less scope for human error using GPS. Race distance accuracy is a fallacy in respect of the actual distance flown. Weather conditions and geography can cause the pigeons to fly further than the measured distance. Different parking position of the transporter from the measured point makes no difference because the different position is the same for all on the transporter, so the variation will also be the same for all. Multiple transporters liberating for the same race would make more of a difference.

 

Be content that pigeon racing will never be fair, all we can hope for is to reduce the number of anomalies, accept the winning pigeon "on the day" and also start giving credit to the pigeons that overcome the geographical and weather obstacles placed before them within the same race. Some pigeons may never win a race, but may "score" in many races. These multiple performing pigeons can be better for your loft than a pigeon with a "one off" top result, without discrediting the pigeon that has the top result.

[billt]

So what we are saying is one/loft racing is the only fair result That's all I do

[Kyleakin Lofts]

So what we are saying is one/loft racing is the only fair result That's all I do

 

Your comment is spot on Bill, however, One Loft Racing does not supply the personal satisfaction that racing to your own loft supplies. It is somewhat disconnected from the breeder.

[REDCHEQHEN]

This is just another of the variations that cause the inequalities within pigeon racing. There is nothing fair or precise within the hobby.

 

Pinpoints on maps or GPS, the accuracy of both matter not a jot with regard to race distance, except that there is less scope for human error using GPS. Race distance accuracy is a fallacy in respect of the actual distance flown. Weather conditions and geography can cause the pigeons to fly further than the measured distance. Different parking position of the transporter from the measured point makes no difference because the different position is the same for all on the transporter, so the variation will also be the same for all. Multiple transporters liberating for the same race would make more of a difference.

 

 

 

I disagree (sorry)

It would only be the same if you were all flying to the same loft - if the transporter was parked to the west of the measured racepoint - then it would be closer to the westerly lofts - and further away for the easterly lofts (for instance) wouldn't it?

[dal2]

I disagree (sorry)

It would only be the same if you were all flying to the same loft - if the transporter was parked to the west of the measured racepoint - then it would be closer to the westerly lofts - and further away for the easterly lofts (for instance) wouldn't it?

That's exactly why an error of +/- 5 metres is nowt. You could loose that at lib site nae bother

[REDROCKET]

This is just another of the variations that cause the inequalities within pigeon racing. There is nothing fair or precise within the hobby.

 

Pinpoints on maps or GPS, the accuracy of both matter not a jot with regard to race distance, except that there is less scope for human error using GPS. Race distance accuracy is a fallacy in respect of the actual distance flown. Weather conditions and geography can cause the pigeons to fly further than the measured distance. Different parking position of the transporter from the measured point makes no difference because the different position is the same for all on the transporter, so the variation will also be the same for all. Multiple transporters liberating for the same race would make more of a difference.

 

Be content that pigeon racing will never be fair, all we can hope for is to reduce the number of anomalies, accept the winning pigeon "on the day" and also start giving credit to the pigeons that overcome the geographical and weather obstacles placed before them within the same race. Some pigeons may never win a race, but may "score" in many races. These multiple performing pigeons can be better for your loft than a pigeon with a "one off" top result, without discrediting the pigeon that has the top result.

 

 

Good answer,takes our birds 2 or 3 minutes to come down from the heavens every weekend and that's not taken into account either lol. We don't complain we win the odd race we're happy with that and enjoy our hobby.

[greenlands]

So here's another point,if you live on top of a hill you have an advantage over anyone in a valley ?

[dal2]

So here's another point,if you live on top of a hill you have an advantage over anyone in a valley ?

Only if ye have better birds

[yeboah]

Only if ye have better birds

Good Fechan reply lol

[Kyleakin Lofts]

So here's another point,if you live on top of a hill you have an advantage over anyone in a valley ?

 

Lindsay, I live at the top of a hill and I am able to assure you it is no advantage. I am last every week and my pigeons are knackered by the time they have walked up the hill. :D