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Posted

What kind of preperation and how do you pick your candidate ask's Lewis ? And no one gave the answer probably because their is'nt one.

I believe the reason Joe Murphy's idea of asking fanciers to nominate a pigeon at the start of the year to compete in the gold cup was folly as fanciers did not know how and why they had won the previous year with that particular bird.

Dal2 nearly had the answer but not quite and yes in my opinion you can get them but its down to the individuality of the bird.

In the past it was my policy to single up from the A66 at least 3 weeks before the event and it stood me in good stead. But that was years ago, hopefully I will be returning to my old ways this year.

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Guest chad3646
Posted

as i have asked before on a thread, why dont they bring back the rennes race

 

 

every one and there grannie used to ask you when is the rennes race

 

and dont give me the sh** about no where to do this no where to do that

 

they are racing every year from rennes how are they going about it

Posted

I managed to time in my only entry at Tours 2 yrs ago for 50th oan the result thats the only time i have sent to the longest race...

Guest chad3646
Posted

Like I said not alot ov logic going around :lol:

 

 

how is this for logic why dont they change the distance for the cheltenham GOLD CUP

 

make it a lot harder,

 

and you will get a lot more entries lol :emoticon-0140-rofl: :emoticon-0140-rofl: :emoticon-0140-rofl:

Posted

how is this for logic why dont they change the distance for the cheltenham GOLD CUP

 

make it a lot harder,

 

and you will get a lot more entries lol :emoticon-0140-rofl: :emoticon-0140-rofl: :emoticon-0140-rofl:

Think you should stick to Kelso 100+ you might get a first :emoticon-0140-rofl:

Posted

I remember reading about the likes of ‘Trail’s Spark’, ‘Nancy’, ‘Rowena’ , ‘Westbound’ as well as looking through the pedigree of John Ellis’ ‘Nantes Hen’ and thinking one day I’d like to have a bash at this race.

 

It’s amazing looking at the fanciers and pigeons who fly a minimum of 600 miles from the French races; the ground pigeons in the calibre of; ‘5 O’clock Rock’,’ Donnan’, ‘Heather’s Dream’ and ‘Marlene’s Girl’ would have covered flying alone is staggering.

 

Birds in this class possess arguably the most phenomenal instinct in all of nature and are as close to the fulfilment of athletic potential in an animal that you’re likely to come across.

 

This season I hope to give the Tours race a go and it will be a first attempt at trying to clock from a distance in excess of 600 miles.

 

What experiences have you had competing from this kind of distance?

 

How were your birds prepared? How were your candidates chosen?

 

Will the SNFC longest race ever rise again? Can it be made more attractive or will it steadily dwindle into nothingness ?

 

 

Lewis the answer is it will Dwindle into nothingless, I myself like the longer races, but people for the last 20 years or so bring in far more sprint based birds, that cant do the job, thats why your inland National is much more popular, people have got rid of most of the distance birds over the years trying to compete at fed level aswell.

Distance Racing will slowly die in years to come.

Good luck this year.

Guest chad3646
Posted

hi billy 99 you seem to be up on your statistics

 

 

have you ever managed to finish the programme

 

 

to my knowledge i dont think so buy the way kelso is a hard race to some :animatedpigeons: :animatedpigeons: :animatedpigeons:

Posted

Apologies for what is likely to be a long post but this race is one of the highlights of my year and has provided some great moments. I hope the race never dies and I think there are things that could be done to revive it. I may be biased as my dad and I have had a lot of success at the race in recent times and I was brought up to think of it as the most important race of the year. I wish it was more competitive and more members would have a go at it. In other national clubs the longest race is the big one i.e. Barcelona in the BICC/BBC, Tarbes in the NFC. The most celebrated pigeons in Europe are still the 600 milers and beyond but for some reason in Scotland, we've got a downer on it. Maybe its the lack of international opportunities that our neighbours have down south.

 

When I was growing up with national racing through the late 80s and early 90s my dad religiously voted for the Nantes race to be the gold cup when they used to have the vote on the Rennes entry sheet. This always puzzled me as at that time we were hopeless at the long race but were banging them in from Sartilly and Rennes as it was then. I couldn’t understand why he was voting for a race that we could hardly get on the result from to be the big one when all our success was in the 500 to 550 races. He stuck to his convictions that the 600 mile race was the ultimate test and has held that view ever since and luckily our results at it have improved.

 

There are some misconceptions about the race which don’t help it’s cause and a better understanding/appreciation of the race is needed. Here are a couple of things that I think a majority of members wrongly believe.

 

1. That it is “always†a hard race, and there are never day pigeons and you’ll be hanging about for 3 days waiting. That is rubbish. As with all racepoints, you do get a hard one every so often and clearly if you get a hard one from 600 miles plus then it’ll be worse than normal. However in recent seasons we’ve seen Dave Pirie win it in Aberdeen timing in fairly early on the day in quite a fast race but even on a steadier day my dad was 2nd open in 2006 and 2011 timing on the day for 612 miles (mother and son). Tours to us is 612 miles and on a 40mph day that is only 15 hours 20 mins. I say only but if you think you’re a good long distance flyer with the right stock then a 15 hour fly won’t scare you unduly. I’m sure plenty on here have tales of 15, 16, even 17 hours on the shift. There is nothing better than that.

 

I can just about remember the 1984 Nantes race, aged 7. My dad, neighbour John Bosworth and John Ellis (Elphinstone, not Wellbank) had all timed on the night into the village and were on a real high. When the race closed and clocks were controlled I was sent off to bed of course but I gather the three of them ended up staying up all night, having a drink and playing pool or snooker in the back garden until it was time for the race to re-open on 2nd day. That doesn’t happen at Clermont. It was the buzz of doing it at the longest race that had so pleased them. Nowadays its all this doom and gloom about it lasting 3 days but it doesn’t have to be like that.

 

2. You need an old warrior that has loads of experience for this race. No you don’t, you need a good pigeon, bred for the job and given enough experience for the task without damaging its willingness to give you everything. I hear a lot of folk saying they’re trying the long race because they have a bird that has done 3 or 4 channel races always on the 2nd day and isn’t fast enough so will be ideal for the long race. That’s the wrong attitude to take, we used to do it ourselves until the penny dropped. If you send a bird that is hours behind at 500 miles then it will be the same hours behind plus a few more at 600 miles, it might scrape a position on a scattered result if the race has run to a 2nd afternoon or 3rd day but its not going to do 600 on the day to win the race or the section. These veterans know what it is to sit out and come home in their own time on 2nd day so it doesn’t worry them. I think you need a fairly unspoiled bird, something that doesn’t want to sit out and will keep going when the wings are tired to get home or as close to home as possible on the first day. Examples of the type of bird we’ve sent in the last 10 years or so, as you can see these were largely fresh pigeons, not scarred by lots of nights out and hard races:-

 

10th open Chenoise – 2nd time over

2nd open Chenoise – 3rd time over

2nd open Tours – 1st time over

5th open Tours – 1st time over

8th open Andrezel – 2nd time over

4th open Bourges – 1st time over

2nd open Tours -2nd time over

 

3. Its too for/ too difficult so I’ll give it a miss. If you are already flying the channel then it’s not that much of a leap. A light tail wind at 600 miles will see the birds home in less hours than a head wind in the gold cup. I don’t understand the reluctance of folk to have a go, just try it. Its only a normal gold cup with 2 hours flying tacked onto it, it’s a challenge but far from impossible.

 

A couple of things I’d like to see happen that would improve the appeal of the race:

 

1. I’d like to see the section, region and overall national averages given a lot more of a push. That should be the main aim of the season for members. Its virtually impossible to win any single national race outright but if you can demonstrate that you can spread your team out to be in the hunt at every race that should mean just as much as someone hitting a home run one week and never being seen for the rest of the year. Too many members just write off the longest race because they don’t try for the national averages but in the club racing the averages are the most prestigious thing. Nobody remembers who won Selby in the club but they all know who won the averages. If you’re not in a location to win the outright averages then go for your region and section averages, still a great achievement. If the averages became important to everyone then automatically more would try the long race as they’d need a time-in to win them. The thought of missing a channel race should be too painful to contemplate. I’d rather have 1 or 2 at each than send 6 to Alencon and skip Tours.

 

2. I think the race would be better supported and attract more attention from the members in general if it was on a different day to Ypres. It loses a bit of the spotlight when the two are on the same day and if it stood alone it might get more members to send who are currently happy to get their race that weekend from Ypres. Pigeon men like a race and if you put a race onto a blank weekend then chances are a few more would send than when they have 2 options on same day.

Posted

Apologies for what is likely to be a long post but this race is one of the highlights of my year and has provided some great moments. I hope the race never dies and I think there are things that could be done to revive it. I may be biased as my dad and I have had a lot of success at the race in recent times and I was brought up to think of it as the most important race of the year. I wish it was more competitive and more members would have a go at it. In other national clubs the longest race is the big one i.e. Barcelona in the BICC/BBC, Tarbes in the NFC. The most celebrated pigeons in Europe are still the 600 milers and beyond but for some reason in Scotland, we've got a downer on it. Maybe its the lack of international opportunities that our neighbours have down south.

 

When I was growing up with national racing through the late 80s and early 90s my dad religiously voted for the Nantes race to be the gold cup when they used to have the vote on the Rennes entry sheet. This always puzzled me as at that time we were hopeless at the long race but were banging them in from Sartilly and Rennes as it was then. I couldn’t understand why he was voting for a race that we could hardly get on the result from to be the big one when all our success was in the 500 to 550 races. He stuck to his convictions that the 600 mile race was the ultimate test and has held that view ever since and luckily our results at it have improved.

 

There are some misconceptions about the race which don’t help it’s cause and a better understanding/appreciation of the race is needed. Here are a couple of things that I think a majority of members wrongly believe.

 

1. That it is “always” a hard race, and there are never day pigeons and you’ll be hanging about for 3 days waiting. That is rubbish. As with all racepoints, you do get a hard one every so often and clearly if you get a hard one from 600 miles plus then it’ll be worse than normal. However in recent seasons we’ve seen Dave Pirie win it in Aberdeen timing in fairly early on the day in quite a fast race but even on a steadier day my dad was 2nd open in 2006 and 2011 timing on the day for 612 miles (mother and son). Tours to us is 612 miles and on a 40mph day that is only 15 hours 20 mins. I say only but if you think you’re a good long distance flyer with the right stock then a 15 hour fly won’t scare you unduly. I’m sure plenty on here have tales of 15, 16, even 17 hours on the shift. There is nothing better than that.

 

I can just about remember the 1984 Nantes race, aged 7. My dad, neighbour John Bosworth and John Ellis (Elphinstone, not Wellbank) had all timed on the night into the village and were on a real high. When the race closed and clocks were controlled I was sent off to bed of course but I gather the three of them ended up staying up all night, having a drink and playing pool or snooker in the back garden until it was time for the race to re-open on 2nd day. That doesn’t happen at Clermont. It was the buzz of doing it at the longest race that had so pleased them. Nowadays its all this doom and gloom about it lasting 3 days but it doesn’t have to be like that.

 

2. You need an old warrior that has loads of experience for this race. No you don’t, you need a good pigeon, bred for the job and given enough experience for the task without damaging its willingness to give you everything. I hear a lot of folk saying they’re trying the long race because they have a bird that has done 3 or 4 channel races always on the 2nd day and isn’t fast enough so will be ideal for the long race. That’s the wrong attitude to take, we used to do it ourselves until the penny dropped. If you send a bird that is hours behind at 500 miles then it will be the same hours behind plus a few more at 600 miles, it might scrape a position on a scattered result if the race has run to a 2nd afternoon or 3rd day but its not going to do 600 on the day to win the race or the section. These veterans know what it is to sit out and come home in their own time on 2nd day so it doesn’t worry them. I think you need a fairly unspoiled bird, something that doesn’t want to sit out and will keep going when the wings are tired to get home or as close to home as possible on the first day. Examples of the type of bird we’ve sent in the last 10 years or so, as you can see these were largely fresh pigeons, not scarred by lots of nights out and hard races:-

 

10th open Chenoise – 2nd time over

2nd open Chenoise – 3rd time over

2nd open Tours – 1st time over

5th open Tours – 1st time over

8th open Andrezel – 2nd time over

4th open Bourges – 1st time over

2nd open Tours -2nd time over

 

3. Its too for/ too difficult so I’ll give it a miss. If you are already flying the channel then it’s not that much of a leap. A light tail wind at 600 miles will see the birds home in less hours than a head wind in the gold cup. I don’t understand the reluctance of folk to have a go, just try it. Its only a normal gold cup with 2 hours flying tacked onto it, it’s a challenge but far from impossible.

 

A couple of things I’d like to see happen that would improve the appeal of the race:

 

1. I’d like to see the section, region and overall national averages given a lot more of a push. That should be the main aim of the season for members. Its virtually impossible to win any single national race outright but if you can demonstrate that you can spread your team out to be in the hunt at every race that should mean just as much as someone hitting a home run one week and never being seen for the rest of the year. Too many members just write off the longest race because they don’t try for the national averages but in the club racing the averages are the most prestigious thing. Nobody remembers who won Selby in the club but they all know who won the averages. If you’re not in a location to win the outright averages then go for your region and section averages, still a great achievement. If the averages became important to everyone then automatically more would try the long race as they’d need a time-in to win them. The thought of missing a channel race should be too painful to contemplate. I’d rather have 1 or 2 at each than send 6 to Alencon and skip Tours.

 

2. I think the race would be better supported and attract more attention from the members in general if it was on a different day to Ypres. It loses a bit of the spotlight when the two are on the same day and if it stood alone it might get more members to send who are currently happy to get their race that weekend from Ypres. Pigeon men like a race and if you put a race onto a blank weekend then chances are a few more would send than when they have 2 options on same day.

lengthy post , but a very good one Rich . :emoticon-0137-clapping:

Posted

Apologies for what is likely to be a long post but this race is one of the highlights of my year and has provided some great moments. I hope the race never dies and I think there are things that could be done to revive it. I may be biased as my dad and I have had a lot of success at the race in recent times and I was brought up to think of it as the most important race of the year. I wish it was more competitive and more members would have a go at it. In other national clubs the longest race is the big one i.e. Barcelona in the BICC/BBC, Tarbes in the NFC. The most celebrated pigeons in Europe are still the 600 milers and beyond but for some reason in Scotland, we've got a downer on it. Maybe its the lack of international opportunities that our neighbours have down south.

 

When I was growing up with national racing through the late 80s and early 90s my dad religiously voted for the Nantes race to be the gold cup when they used to have the vote on the Rennes entry sheet. This always puzzled me as at that time we were hopeless at the long race but were banging them in from Sartilly and Rennes as it was then. I couldn’t understand why he was voting for a race that we could hardly get on the result from to be the big one when all our success was in the 500 to 550 races. He stuck to his convictions that the 600 mile race was the ultimate test and has held that view ever since and luckily our results at it have improved.

 

There are some misconceptions about the race which don’t help it’s cause and a better understanding/appreciation of the race is needed. Here are a couple of things that I think a majority of members wrongly believe.

 

1. That it is “always†a hard race, and there are never day pigeons and you’ll be hanging about for 3 days waiting. That is rubbish. As with all racepoints, you do get a hard one every so often and clearly if you get a hard one from 600 miles plus then it’ll be worse than normal. However in recent seasons we’ve seen Dave Pirie win it in Aberdeen timing in fairly early on the day in quite a fast race but even on a steadier day my dad was 2nd open in 2006 and 2011 timing on the day for 612 miles (mother and son). Tours to us is 612 miles and on a 40mph day that is only 15 hours 20 mins. I say only but if you think you’re a good long distance flyer with the right stock then a 15 hour fly won’t scare you unduly. I’m sure plenty on here have tales of 15, 16, even 17 hours on the shift. There is nothing better than that.

 

I can just about remember the 1984 Nantes race, aged 7. My dad, neighbour John Bosworth and John Ellis (Elphinstone, not Wellbank) had all timed on the night into the village and were on a real high. When the race closed and clocks were controlled I was sent off to bed of course but I gather the three of them ended up staying up all night, having a drink and playing pool or snooker in the back garden until it was time for the race to re-open on 2nd day. That doesn’t happen at Clermont. It was the buzz of doing it at the longest race that had so pleased them. Nowadays its all this doom and gloom about it lasting 3 days but it doesn’t have to be like that.

 

2. You need an old warrior that has loads of experience for this race. No you don’t, you need a good pigeon, bred for the job and given enough experience for the task without damaging its willingness to give you everything. I hear a lot of folk saying they’re trying the long race because they have a bird that has done 3 or 4 channel races always on the 2nd day and isn’t fast enough so will be ideal for the long race. That’s the wrong attitude to take, we used to do it ourselves until the penny dropped. If you send a bird that is hours behind at 500 miles then it will be the same hours behind plus a few more at 600 miles, it might scrape a position on a scattered result if the race has run to a 2nd afternoon or 3rd day but its not going to do 600 on the day to win the race or the section. These veterans know what it is to sit out and come home in their own time on 2nd day so it doesn’t worry them. I think you need a fairly unspoiled bird, something that doesn’t want to sit out and will keep going when the wings are tired to get home or as close to home as possible on the first day. Examples of the type of bird we’ve sent in the last 10 years or so, as you can see these were largely fresh pigeons, not scarred by lots of nights out and hard races:-

 

10th open Chenoise – 2nd time over

2nd open Chenoise – 3rd time over

2nd open Tours – 1st time over

5th open Tours – 1st time over

8th open Andrezel – 2nd time over

4th open Bourges – 1st time over

2nd open Tours -2nd time over

 

3. Its too for/ too difficult so I’ll give it a miss. If you are already flying the channel then it’s not that much of a leap. A light tail wind at 600 miles will see the birds home in less hours than a head wind in the gold cup. I don’t understand the reluctance of folk to have a go, just try it. Its only a normal gold cup with 2 hours flying tacked onto it, it’s a challenge but far from impossible.

 

A couple of things I’d like to see happen that would improve the appeal of the race:

 

1. I’d like to see the section, region and overall national averages given a lot more of a push. That should be the main aim of the season for members. Its virtually impossible to win any single national race outright but if you can demonstrate that you can spread your team out to be in the hunt at every race that should mean just as much as someone hitting a home run one week and never being seen for the rest of the year. Too many members just write off the longest race because they don’t try for the national averages but in the club racing the averages are the most prestigious thing. Nobody remembers who won Selby in the club but they all know who won the averages. If you’re not in a location to win the outright averages then go for your region and section averages, still a great achievement. If the averages became important to everyone then automatically more would try the long race as they’d need a time-in to win them. The thought of missing a channel race should be too painful to contemplate. I’d rather have 1 or 2 at each than send 6 to Alencon and skip Tours.

 

2. I think the race would be better supported and attract more attention from the members in general if it was on a different day to Ypres. It loses a bit of the spotlight when the two are on the same day and if it stood alone it might get more members to send who are currently happy to get their race that weekend from Ypres. Pigeon men like a race and if you put a race onto a blank weekend then chances are a few more would send than when they have 2 options on same day.

 

I agree with you Jamie on the averages etc but I dont believe their should be an overall average in the SNFC.It is always won in the better locations, so sectional/regional averages are fine imo. Also, I dont mind the Ypres and Tours race the same weekend, the birds are very seldom timed on the same day and also the advantages of training all your candidates for both races at once saves a few quid on fuel.

Posted

I agree with you Jamie on the averages etc but I dont believe their should be an overall average in the SNFC.It is always won in the better locations, so sectional/regional averages are fine imo. Also, I dont mind the Ypres and Tours race the same weekend, the birds are very seldom timed on the same day and also the advantages of training all your candidates for both races at once saves a few quid on fuel.

 

I agree there are benefits to two on the same day when it comes to training but I remember helping to run the Musselburgh station 2 or 3 years back and you'd be surprised how many only went to one race or the other when we marked on the same night for both. Even some names who I would have thought were so keen on channel racing that they would have sent to both. Not all were skipping Tours for Ypres, there were also a few who went to Tours but not Ypres. Just seems an obvious thing to spread out the racing if you want maximum numbers to compete.

Posted

I agree there are benefits to two on the same day when it comes to training but I remember helping to run the Musselburgh station 2 or 3 years back and you'd be surprised how many only went to one race or the other when we marked on the same night for both. Even some names who I would have thought were so keen on channel racing that they would have sent to both. Not all were skipping Tours for Ypres, there were also a few who went to Tours but not Ypres. Just seems an obvious thing to spread out the racing if you want maximum numbers to compete.

We dont often do both cos its a bit of running around getting clocks and strikes etc

Posted

Some fantastic posts.

 

W.D perhaps has it spot on and an attempt at 'unification' for the longest race could be an option?

 

Echoing what Midnight Son and others have said. I had a conversation with a local fancier who I admire greatly and he reckoned it's a one day race, made into a two day race(in our area anyway)

 

Perhaps if it carried the title of 'Gold Cup' it would encourage fanciers to send their best and not their B team or 'last chancers'.

 

Recently the likes of the Combe partnership and Jock King have shown timing on the night,flying 600+, can be done.

 

Birds that always amazed me were Albert Bruce's 'North Queen' and Wilson Noble's 'Black Rocket'-Rennes,663 miles, on the day into Fraseburgh over 17 hours on the wing.

Posted

I agree there are benefits to two on the same day when it comes to training but I remember helping to run the Musselburgh station 2 or 3 years back and you'd be surprised how many only went to one race or the other when we marked on the same night for both. Even some names who I would have thought were so keen on channel racing that they would have sent to both. Not all were skipping Tours for Ypres, there were also a few who went to Tours but not Ypres. Just seems an obvious thing to spread out the racing if you want maximum numbers to compete.

Could yourself or anyone who has sent to this race give an insight into how to prepare a pigeon to compete at a race like this?

Posted

Some fantastic posts.

 

W.D perhaps has it spot on and an attempt at 'unification' for the longest race could be an option?

 

Echoing what Midnight Son and others have said. I had a conversation with a local fancier who I admire greatly and he reckoned it's a one day race, made into a two day race(in our area anyway)

 

Perhaps if it carried the title of 'Gold Cup' it would encourage fanciers to send their best and not their B team or 'last chancers'.

 

Recently the likes of the Combe partnership and Jock King have shown timing on the night,flying 600+, can be done.

 

Birds that always amazed me were Albert Bruce's 'North Queen' and Wilson Noble's 'Black Rocket'-Rennes,663 miles, on the day into Fraseburgh over 17 hours on the wing.

And what about bob whytes jubilee express 7th open 13 hrs from nantes 723 miles on the day ? But all these birds were given the chance ta home on the day if birds are not up at latest 6am should be mid day lib and i can assure you there would be a lot more great performances at the distance thats a fact but any way hope ye all that send get good birds at the distance cheers

Posted

I always try to find a candidate for the longest race but like Jamie said I also fell into the trap of sending plodders, In 2011 I sent a steadier pigeon to Tours (708mls)(3yo hen, first time across the channel) and managed to clock her in the morning to win the sect and also 11th open. I don't know why this race isn't well supported as I presumed most people would join the SNFC to have a go at a 600mile race? All my 3 year olds go across the channel to at least Clermont (589mls)and a select few two year olds also. Yes it can be tough, yes you can get a slap and no clock in but their is no shame in that, you just have to pick yourself up and try again and when you do get one all the bad memories pale into insignificance. So come on all who have never sent for whatever reason, give it a go this year ;) ;)

Posted

Remember my first ever attempt at Nantes when i was 18yrs old in 1976 with a blue cheq hen Su73 s 10079 clocked 2nd morning at 6-20 am to be 14th open I was still in bed in the attic room when my dad burst through the door with the hen in one hand and the stb clock in the other f-- sh-- ma sell ,That hen went on to breed the finest pigeon i ever raced 3 times rennes on the shift with 7500 behind her each time best performance 16 1/2 hours on the wing bought ma first car wae nae rust with the winnings :emoticon-0123-party: While i was at wembley in 77 watching scotland stuff england the nantes hen won 1st cheltenham briefly until the secretary phoned my uncle as he was the only yin with a phone to pass on the news to my dad that we had been relegated to second by a decimal when he and the president re done the result the president got first anyway that will no happen noo cause he's deed :lol: :lol:

Oh Happy Days.

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