Natural

[dal2]

Sent just the 1 to 165 miles and was 8th Fed. Now that to me was a massive thrill..

That was excellent. .....but dusnae help the average?

 

Am no picking holes but merely pointing out the probs with natural in the racing game

[peter pandy]

Paired up far too late Steve which I wont be doing again hence an earlier post that St Valentines Day will be the future pairing date.

I have absolutely no intention of darkening youngsters as it aint natural and it has to have a detrimental affect in their make up is MY way of thinking BUT hey ho my Naturals will show them the road next year ""Mark My Words"".

[dal2]

Paired up far too late Steve which I wont be doing again hence an earlier post that St Valentines Day will be the future pairing date.

I have absolutely no intention of darkening youngsters as it aint natural and it has to have a detrimental affect in their make up is MY way of thinking BUT hey ho my Naturals will show them the road next year ""Mark My Words"".

Best of luck. ....I think you should pair up at Xmas and let them come on natural. They will hold the wing and give ye a full season

[peter pandy]

Beautiful blue cloudless sky yesterday had my Hens raking the heavens with flashes of silver where the sun caught the underside of their wings which was the only clue as to where they were with them being so high, The only competition up there were the aircraft taking the Polar route to the other side of the world leaving vapour trails in their wakes and it was a joy to behold.

All locked up fed and watered had me giving the hedges a final trim for the Winter then reclining with a coffee in the greenhouse, I dont know where they came from but I was visited by Hedge Sparrows, Pied Wagtails, Robin and Blackbirds and a Bassa Hen Sparrow Hawk which flew straight into the netting on the Loft Verhanda chased by a crow and knocking itself senseless onto the ground, No dogs out for a change to get it so arming myself with a garden rake went chasing after it as it was unable to fly, It ran round the side of the loft with me in hot pursuit and as I was about to do it in my knee packed in and I could only watch as it half flew onto the neighbouring fence and disappeared into the hedges next door, I managed to get the dogs out and went looking for it but to no avail Bassa..

[peter pandy]

Is it not amazing that in your team of pigeons when all are being fed the same feed that some can put on weight whil'st others come into marvellous order especially when they are all being treated exactly the same..

Wedneday night at Clarkston show my 2 entries are lumped next to a couple Powder Blue Pieds and look quite dowdy next to them, Not saying they were show birds or anything like that but they won 1st and 2nd however Wee !! Tiger consoled me with a Steak Pie because their were nae mince pies left with the human dustbin TommyBhoy scoffin 7 in a wunner, Greedy Bassa..LOL "better pit that in, jist in case"

Been looking through the Screwfix book and decide that 4 adjustable vents are required along the front under the verandha and 1 on both sides to increase the air flow through and having a type of box corrugated sheeting on the roof I will bore holes through the sarking roof and into the box space above which will create a ventury between the roof space as I cannot have the birds being attacked when sitting in the verandha so the windows will have to remain closed with no loss of incoming and increased expulsion of air without draughts.

[andy Burgess]

Is it not amazing that in your team of pigeons when all are being fed the same feed that some can put on weight whil'st others come into marvellous order especially when they are all being treated exactly the same..

Wedneday night at Clarkston show my 2 entries are lumped next to a couple Powder Blue Pieds and look quite dowdy next to them, Not saying they were show birds or anything like that but they won 1st and 2nd however Wee !! Tiger consoled me with a Steak Pie because their were nae mince pies left with the human dustbin TommyBhoy scoffin 7 in a wunner, Greedy Bassa..LOL "better pit that in, jist in case"

Been looking through the Screwfix book and decide that 4 adjustable vents are required along the front under the verandha and 1 on both sides to increase the air flow through and having a type of box corrugated sheeting on the roof I will bore holes through the sarking roof and into the box space above which will create a ventury between the roof space as I cannot have the birds being attacked when sitting in the verandha so the windows will have to remain closed with no loss of incoming and increased expulsion of air without draughts.

 

 

the "roof ventilation" you are planning on is a similar one to Ronny Williamson design Peter. good luck with it.

[andy Burgess]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ronnie+williamson+roof+design&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=Lp7C9nwT749-9M%253A%253BZBkU4auJ7hc0ZM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pigeonnetwork.com%25252Farticles%25252FRon_Williamson.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Lp7C9nwT749-9M%253A%252CZBkU4auJ7hc0ZM%252C_&usg=__bFMhIH56Hb4P7e_IBjir8QVV-cA%3D&biw=1127&bih=528&ved=0ahUKEwia3Yr54KbQAhVqCMAKHfIMCpMQyjcILQ&ei=-eUoWNr8H-qQgAbymaiYCQ#imgrc=Hsp0k5fbkGRs5M%3A

 

hope the above attachment shows you his roof ventilation design Peter ?

 

http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/topic/35639-roof-ventilation/

 

and post 18 shows it , possibly better too.

[peter pandy]

I can see quite a few problems with that type of ventilation Andy as you cannot create a vacuum with such large air spaces. I can only go with my past work experience when trying to create a larger vacuum the engineers fitted smaller pipe work and used 75 psi steam into the vent to increase what was desired. My problem of course was not removing the felt from the roof before cladding with box sheeting however I will cut one 3" hole into each running box in the ceiling to ensure their will be no loss of pulling power. Many who have tried this type of ventilation are doomed to failure as most lofts face South but the wind has to go up through the box and the prevailing wind being from the West to South West then that has to be the way the front of the loft faces to ensure success. With all the vents now fitted tomorrow will see me cutting holes in the roof sarking planks..

[peter pandy]

Reduced the hole size to 2" as I was feart I would cut through into the metal sheeting and it has been as succesful as I expected with it taking away down feathers from 2" below the holes which will ensure any fine bloom dust will be removed post haste.. The only downside was puting galvanised weld mesh over the roof gutter and I dont know how the *expletive removed* It happened but I managed to spear my fingernail down to the bone with a sliver of wire and geez its throbbing..Wee Mary said I am accident prone so their will be no more renovations in my life time now that job is completed allthough I am still trying to convince her the front under the verandha is still waiting to be varnished. Her reply was most unladylike with the second word being "OFF".

I have for the past fortnight had the bird on 50% Barley and must say they are looking good on it..

[peter pandy]

In the loft to-day I was wondering why some Blues and Chequers were not conformonist as you would assume they would be, to explain better, some have white rumps and some have grey rumps while others have the solid colour of their backs down to the tail.. I wondered if the ones with the white rumps would be more susceptable to Bassa attacks.

Anybody any views on that ??.

[ALF]

In the loft to-day I was wondering why some Blues and Chequers were not conformonist as you would assume they would be, to explain better, some have white rumps and some have grey rumps while others have the solid colour of their backs down to the tail.. I wondered if the ones with the white rumps would be more susceptable to Bassa attacks.

Anybody any views on that ??.

 

The thing is Pedro how can you tell If they dont show up?

 

1. If Percy took them?

2.If they hit a wire or something similar?

3.They are just hopeless?

[peter pandy]

Minus six degrees in the loft to-day and droppings frozen on the floor so hastily switched the heater on before scraping out and gave the Hens a bit of freedom to roam the Blue sky for an hour.

Reading posts regarding how we all differ regarding pre pairing ideas had me back to my teens when pairing up was something we could not wait for and the futility of it all as we grew up letting patience and nature take its course.

Being a great believer in letting the birds pick their own mate has been and will continue to be my view as I have still yet to meet the fancier who could pick a pair to breed winners as its just your Donald Duck if we are being perfectly honest.

The experts will say their is a specific standard for a racing pigeon but I have to disagree having had all types to score at 60 miles and 500+ miles with them coming in all sizes, Big, Small, Deep, Not so deep, Long wings Short wings, Long legs, Short legs and I wont mention Eye Sign, Like everything their is always the exception to the rule But, is their a rule !!.

Its probably the same with feeding, Some feed the best money can buy and others feed the scrapings of the mill floor and both can win races.

I have decided to try a feeding mixture that was written down by a very successful Belgian fancier "Marcel Desmet" for C.J.Williams in 1968 that was extremely good for results at all distances moving on to it once I have depleted the feeding I already have. One can only try for a season and ascertain the results.

[peter pandy]

It would appear the old Scottish type pigeons have disappeared into oblivion with the adultary of foreigners or am I in the minority of myself and my thoughts. Does anybody out there stll have the old tried and tested strains which were in the forefront of National racing up to the turn of the century ?. Their were strains which came to mind but when your brain digs deeper into the memory bank you realise that they were introducing foreigners for years IE, Osmand's which were results of the best of European imports and distributed to top fanciers throughout the UK to test by the late Colin Osmand as were Steele of Uttoxeter among'st others.

I suppose in earlier years their were no Scottish strains and fanciers went along to "Joe Soap" who had clocked a good yin from the Gold Cup and purchased a youngster from the loft regardless if it was related to the winner which was introduced into the mix. No studs in those days and I dont even recall anybody having Stock pigeons as every bird in the loft had to race for its perch including 500+ miles, With all the youngsters going to 165 miles and late breds made up for losses from those birds that had completed the channel races.

My wee brother has decided to take the birds up again and I have given him all the birds we brought in now he has renovated his old loft and put in a stock loft to breed a team of youngsters for racing next year. We have reminded each other what we used to do and will no doubt be a force to be reckoned with as he has the very best of the Padfield family visiting them on occasions when down that way in his mobile home and returning with more "Gold" his words not mine.

[geordie1234]

Most of the old Scottish strains had a belgian influence...

[Belge]

In the loft to-day I was wondering why some Blues and Chequers were not conformonist as you would assume they would be, to explain better, some have white rumps and some have grey rumps while others have the solid colour of their backs down to the tail.. I wondered if the ones with the white rumps would be more susceptable to Bassa attacks.

Anybody any views on that ??.

 

 

Peter I read that the White rump in Racing Pigeons comes from their Rock Dove ancestry. In birds that have white rumps it provides them with a little bit more protection from predators as the flash of white when the bird suddenly flies off or turns in the air can distract the Cat, Hawk and give the fleeing bird vital seconds to get away. It can also warn others in the flock that they are being attacked. Think of bunny tails.. I've not really seen that develop in my loft as all colours seem to get hit but I suppose over millions of years natural selection will favour birds with the ability to show these flashes of white and they will breed their like. You just need to look at the Rock Dove, Wood Pigeon Magpie etc.. I've watched in a video that DJK used to paint Red Markings on his birds and he said it was successful. Maybe Red shocks them into leaving the birds alone. One for Dave to comment on ...

[lanarkshire lad]

Peter I read that the White rump in Racing Pigeons comes from their Rock Dove ancestry. In birds that have white rumps it provides them with a little bit more protection from predators as the flash of white when the bird suddenly flies off or turns in the air can distract the Cat, Hawk and give the fleeing bird vital seconds to get away. It can also warn others in the flock that they are being attacked. Think of bunny tails.. I've not really seen that develop in my loft as all colours seem to get hit but I suppose over millions of years natural selection will favour birds with the ability to show these flashes of white and they will breed their like. You just need to look at the Rock Dove, Wood Pigeon Magpie etc.. I've watched in a video that DJK used to paint Red Markings on his birds and he said it was successful. Maybe Red shocks them into leaving the birds alone. One for Dave to comment on ...

I think black and yellow are warning colours in nature for e.g. Snakes wasps I think a predator would think twice about going for a wasp or snake .

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Bright colours in nature usually signify danger due to the fact that if they are showing so much colour then they have no fear and must be dangerous / poisonous. There are, of course, many exceptions to the rule.

 

Study a martial arts champion and make a comparison against a d1ckhead. You will usually find the champion displays an air of confidence without being "in your face", whilst the other is loud and bolshy. Thus the saying, it is the quiet ones you have to watch. Again, there are exceptions to the rule.

[dkj]

hugo kipp and Dr. Brockamp both used red dye on there doo.s wings and rump as they reckoned it stopped peregrine falcon attacks. both these fanciers were the best in europe at distance racing,

i done it for a few years with success, then got lazy the last two years and iv being getting hit with peregrine falcon at the loft, with not putting red dye on them,and never got hit when i had the red dye on them

[geordie1234]

hugo kipp and Dr. Brockamp both used red dye on there doo.s wings and rump as they reckoned it stopped peregrine falcon attacks. both these fanciers were the best in europe at distance racing,

i done it for a few years with success, then got lazy the last two years and iv being getting hit with peregrine falcon at the loft, with not putting red dye on them,and never got hit when i had the red dye on them

Where can you buy this from Davy?

[ally mac]

I remember reading a few years ago that the white rump was to help evade falcons, found this in an article

 

Bizarrely , there are rare instances of darkrumped individuals being produced naturally (several among Faeroese Rock Doves: Salomonson, 1935). It seems as though, like wild dark-rumped populations in eastern Asia, there is a latent tendency towards a dark rump. However , such individuals succumb to Peregrine attacks, leading to the conclusion that the white rump is a genetically controlled adaptation, which, through natural selection, persists in the face of a dominant gene favouring a dark rump. Research in California confirms this (Palleroni et al, 2005). Over a seven-year period, observers compared the proportions of successful attacks by Peregrines on urban flocks of domestic pigeons containing both white and plainrumped varieties. Peregrines caught far more plain-rumped birds. The researchers concluded that, during high-speed swerves, the blink of the white dorsal patch momentarily wrong-footed the assailant. Somewhat unkindly , researchers caught substantial numbers of pigeons and changed their rump colour to verify the hypothesis.

 

http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=j9yQ2XoO9Q4%3D&tabid=1413

[dkj]

Where can you buy this from Davy?

you can get it from dr brockamp web site, but i used red sheep dye,

[geordie1234]

you can get it from dr brockamp web site, but i used red sheep dye,

Cheers mate

[Delboy]

I sprayed red dye spots on my ybs for a few years and it seemed to help as my returns were very good.I didnt do it this year because I heard that folk were complaining at the SNFC marking for the yb national that my birds were marked What f kin chance have ye got with the amount of coconuts in this game.

[peter pandy]

Will speak to Davie to-night and have more info on this subject as their has to be a reason why nature has intervened in differances in a designated natural colour scheme..

[Kyleakin Lofts]

The red sheep dye can be messy. Some people use a bingo blobber. It is a bit smaller than using sheep dye and the sponge for cleaning the needles when doing the vaccinations, but it doesn't leave any mess.

Having used the sheep dye method one year, I cannot say it made any improvements, but I done all of them, so perhaps had I done half and made comparisons on returns from marked and unmarked.