Belge

Big thanks to Colin for going out his way to pick up my lost YB.. Thanks again Colin...

Hi I was wondering if someone near Newcastleton Scottish Borders could help me by picking up a lost YB from An ex Fancier in Newcastleton and pop it in the SHU Stray Basket for me please ?? If you can help me then please send me a PM and I'll give you more details. Thanks Norman

Hi Thanks that's one of mine missing from Stobs Camp today. I'll give you a PM..

Sent you a PM

Roland.. As someone who regularly looses Birds to the Sparrow Hawk Hens in March / April I was very interested in what you were saying and people's thoughts about starting the racing later. I try to have as little time as possible before the first race to try to get my birds loft fit but that in itself causes problems with unfit birds not properly tuned in to responding to commands sitting about roofs as easy targets. Just tonight I came across the following bbc online article see https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0647cpw where the people are discussing the changing seasons. They say that Spring is arriving 26 days earlier than it did 10 years ago and explain how that is effecting nesting birds etc.. Well if thats the case and we add another month onto the start of the racing season we might manage to miss the Sparrow Hawk hens pre nesting preparations and start letting our birds out for exercise / training well after she is back down on eggs. Also that might explain why we are now racing our big National races in what appear to be extreme weather conditions not fully suitable for these type of races, when that did not seem to happen a few years ago.. Global Warming might be something we could use to our advantage. I know how difficult it can be to get pigeon fanciers to accept change of even consider making changes but if you have the ability to bring together the right evidence it might at least allow a trial for a year or so to be put in place to see what difference it would make. I think our real problem is how do we get people in authority to look at this type of evidence and act on it for the betterment of the sport.

I didn't start this thread to cause a row, it was to give some publicity to the winners and other timers at this race, a race that I believe still holds some prestige in Central Scotland. I also wanted to thank the members of Pigeon Basics for their support at the Young Bird sale that was held on the site, that made this race completely accessible to all SCC organisation members. Every Yearling that was at the joint liberation of the Central, Fauldhouse and Midland Federations at Leicester last Saturday was automatically entered into the SCC Yearling Derby and there was no need to pay any duplication fee to the SCC. The date, race point and entry format for the Yearling Derby was agreed at a SCC meeting of all the member organisations earlier this year. (North West Federation later decided to race from a different race point that day but a number of their Federation members still sent to the SCC race) There were sheets made available to all the SCC Federations well in advance of the race for members to notify the SCC secretary of the number of Yearlings they were entering into the race and/or to use the same form for pools. It could not have been simpler. If there are members of the SCC who did not know about this arrangement then I would ask them to take that up with their own Federation Officials. Also if there are any SCC members who timed Yearlings at the Leicester race and who would wish to have their birds recorded in the final result then please ask them to get in touch with myself and I will oblige. For information the SCC Channel race is a duplication race within the SNFC Ypres race and the same rules will apply. If you are a member of any of the SCC Organisations then any bird you send to the SNFC Ypres race will automatically be in the SCC race and you will only have to pay the fees required by the SNFC. If you are sending then please fill out one of the new SCC forms. Norman Dixon

Provisional Result 735 Yearlings competed for the honour of winning the above race on Saturday 27th May 2017. It turned out a very hard race for some but amazingly the winners posted some great times. Congratulations to Gordon MacKenzie for coming out on top and winning the Central Section. Angus Orr and Son Allan won the North West Section and the two Bird Average Iain Gibson won the Midland Section John McLaughlin won the West Lothian Section Every Yearling pigeon in the convoy was eligible to be entered without any duplication costs due to the well supported Young Bird sale that was hosted on Pigeon Basics earlier this year. Thanks again for that Norman

The Scottish Central Combine Yearling Derby from Leicester will be flown on Saturday 27th May 2017. Because of the successful SCC Young Bird sale conducted on Pigeon Basics all members of the Fauldhouse Club, Midland Federation, North West Federation and Scottish Central Federation will be able to compete in the above race without having to pay any duplication fees. In short every Yearling that is sent to the race with the members own Club / Federation will be automatically entered into the Yearling Derby. Can every member please complete the new PINK Combine sheet showing the number of Yearlings they have entered and use this same sheet to pool any pigeons they fancy in the new simpler and shortened pooling system. Good Luck to everyone who takes part.

Peter I read that the White rump in Racing Pigeons comes from their Rock Dove ancestry. In birds that have white rumps it provides them with a little bit more protection from predators as the flash of white when the bird suddenly flies off or turns in the air can distract the Cat, Hawk and give the fleeing bird vital seconds to get away. It can also warn others in the flock that they are being attacked. Think of bunny tails.. I've not really seen that develop in my loft as all colours seem to get hit but I suppose over millions of years natural selection will favour birds with the ability to show these flashes of white and they will breed their like. You just need to look at the Rock Dove, Wood Pigeon Magpie etc.. I've watched in a video that DJK used to paint Red Markings on his birds and he said it was successful. Maybe Red shocks them into leaving the birds alone. One for Dave to comment on ...

I've changed my subscription to an on line one and its always there on time.

Well done Sid and Davie you both deserve this win for all the work you both put into the sport in your different ways.. Cheers

I timed a bird from the race at 8.26 this morning. It's maybe too late to get on the result but not only was it the first bird I've timed from a channel race in over ten years to make it really special it was a two year old hen from the loft of the late Rab Byers who always made the 3 Bird Channel race his target race of the year. To time one of Rab's birds in at the race he loved competing in was really something special this morning. Thanks Rab you have made my season.

Scottish Central Federation Secretary: Jo Forrest, President: A Cockburn Ripon on 10/05/2015 at 11:25 hrs 1,604 Federation Birds. Liberated into a South East wind Pos Name Club Clocked Distance Bird Velocity 1 PWard BON 14:02:55 151m1000y SU13CA1772BBH 1689.245 2 CCrowe WIN 13:57:37 145m1705y SU143603BC 1683.335 3 T&GWeir WIN 14:02:43 150m833y SU13CA1299BC 1679.169 4 Mr&MrsForrest NEW 13:56:59 144m1621y SU14CA3371BH 1678.217 5 ACockburn NEW 13:57:33 145m104y SU14CA3166BC 1673.749 6 GMacKenzie BRO 14:00:08 147m612y SU14CA2544BH 1671.672 7 GMacKenzie BRO 14:00:09 147m612y SU14CA2587CHH 1671.492 8 ACockburn NEW 13:57:49 145m104y SU14CA3126BC 1670.828 9 ABrown BON 14:08:05 154m1041y SU14CA2095CHH 1670.59 10 GMacKenzie BRO 14:00:15 147m612y SU13CA2962BH 1670.415 11 ACockburn NEW 13:57:56 145m104y SU14CA3165BC 1669.553 12 AMay BON 14:08:56 155m593y SU13CA2136BH 1667.708 13 PWard BON 14:05:03 151m1000y SU14CA2166GRH 1666.729 14 AMay BON 14:09:07 155m593y SU14CA2002BH 1665.845 15 MBrown BON 14:09:03 155m133y SU13CA2594CHH 1663.718 16 GHarper BON 14:10:43 155m632y SU13CA2330BWF 1649.997 17 PKeogh WIN 14:03:34 148m955y SU13P2868RC 1648.739 18 PKeogh WIN 14:03:38 148m955y SU13CA894BC 1648.046 20 MBrown BON 14:10:55 155m133y SU14CA2097BH 1645.001 22 MSneddon BON 14:10:30 154m998y SU14CA1648CHC 1643.734

Yes he is feeding fine. Luckily the Hawk never turned him over and its only his back thats affected. I've seen a lot worse survive. However I don't think he will see the inside of a race basket again.

Well this is whats happened to one I got back this afternoon. It just shows how vulnerable they are when they have a night out.

Very sad news. As well as being a fanatical Pigeon Fancier, Robert was a terrific person who would always put helping others before himself. Rab you will be sadly missed.

Did you not see good ole Chris Packham on BBC 2 Winter Watch with an Eagle Owl on his arm talking for a while in favour of leaving the Eagle Owls alone in the British Countryside. It sounded like he was actually arguing for them to be considered a previously persecuted native British species that was just starting to reintroduce itself. He had a few words to say against the people (I guess RSPB) who wanted to remove them whilst asking for protection for some introduced species. He looked to be genuinely supportive of Eagle Owls coming back even though he did say they were ruthless killers who would eat anything they found in their territory during the night... including other raptors....

The grid did not come out as expected.. I've tried again. First Distance is Stirling. Second Distance is Fraserburgh Cheers West Route Mallow 335 466 Rosscarberry 377 508 Barley Cove 401 532 Middle Route Worcester 279 380 Lamballa 532 638 Alancon 557 646 Nantes 623 724 East Route Peterborough 287 361 Ypres 459 512 Arras 489 547 Lille Belgium 492 523 Cologne 572 598 Reims 579 633

Hi I've enjoyed this Topic started by DJK who is quickly becoming one of the top Distance Fanciers of our time. Here is my own non Top Distance Fanciers view on the subject.... I will try to attach a map I've created to go with the text but if I can't attach it just open up Google Maps/Google Earth and toggle back and forth when you get to the relevant parts.. I am not someone who has the ability to regularly condition a racing pigeon to return from, never mind win prizes at the long distance channel races of our Scottish National race calendar. I have tried many times before and have only timed pigeons in race time from the channel about four times and on the day only twice. However like nearly every Pigeon Fancier I know I am fascinated by the Scottish National races and the way in which this type of racing defines individual fanciers as long distance experts, with their names, their winning birds names and their area of residence known by nearly everyone in the sport. When I first started pigeons in the early 70’s everything seemed so straight forward with the vast majority of Scottish Federations racing home north, down what was called the ‘West’ route (more on that later) and the English and Welsh racing home south and mainly on the East. The only discussion I can remember surrounding the ‘East’ ‘West’ debate in those days was whether or not ‘West’ should race on a Saturday and ‘East’ on a Sunday and change the procedure every year. However within the last 20 years in all types of racing whether it be National or Federation racing there has always been the constant discussion that often turns into full blown argument about whether ‘East’ or ‘West’ is best. Yes the ‘West’ was the main area 20 years ago for Peregrines and other Hawks but today they are everywhere and I would imagine nowadays from the losses and badly injured birds coming home from the ‘East’ race points that the East coast of Scotland and Northern England must have as many Peregrines as the South West of Scotland and the North West of England. And even if statistically there are not as many in each side of the country there is definitely enough Peregrines hunting in both areas have to render the danger to our Racing Pigeons almost equal. So if we were to assume that the dangers faced by our Pigeons are the same on both sides of the country and we are back to having a blank page regarding choice for routes then does that now enable us to have a serious debate about ‘East ‘v ‘West’ and start to understand a little bit more about what that really means. The first thing I have understood is that Loft location and Wind direction accompanied by the Drag of the convoy make the result in short races. This factor decreases bit by bit as the distance starts to increase until I would think around the 250 mile – 300 mile mark (some may say a lesser distance) when the Racing Pigeons are so well strung out it is the naturally fitter and healthier pigeons that are out at the front. At this stage of the race programme the main factors in play are only the location of the race point, the loft location, the weather and strength of the wind and whether it is on the traditional ‘East’ or ‘West’ race route. If I can stop here and refer you to the attached map of Scotland (or have a look at Google Maps/Google Earth) where I have made a bit of a non-scientific assumption that Stirling is the centre of the middle belt in Scotland. Looking at the map I think I can clearly state that we have never really raced down the ‘West’ route we have raced down the ‘Middle “ route if we are referring to race points directly south of Scotland. Modern day fanciers have not raced the actual ‘West’ route properly for over a hundred years. The main evidence for this comes from the results of the pioneer days of the Scottish National Flying Club in which the fanciers of the day flew their national races from Dublin in 1894, Thuries in 1895, Cork in 1896 and Skibereen in 1897, 1898 and 1899. I do note that the winners of these races came from the West of Scotland and their winning velocities were comparable with National racing today. Therefore the current ‘West’ v ‘East’ discussion is not correct, as we have always only been discussing the ‘East’ v ‘Centre’ and recently missed out completely the opportunity to race from the ‘West’. There is an additional twist to this debate and that is that the country of Scotland does not sit squarely across the Isle of Great Britain. It starts on the West at a lower latitude than it does on the East and therefore when you are racing from the south into Area/Region/Sectional boundaries that are based on Federation boundaries you are not really creating a fair sectional system. In terms of choosing race points for National Racing with the fairest racing structure there are some obvious facts to be considered: 1. Club and Federation boundaries overlap. 2. The Regional and Sectional boundaries in National Racing currently being employed use Federation boundaries which do not accurately place fanciers inside geographic boundaries that would determine their true sectional location if the country was split up into grids. 3. To create a fairer view of National racing we should consider an Area/Region/Section structure separate from traditional Federation boundaries. 4. When you are racing from any direction into Scotland you cannot really create a fair sectional system with straight up and down and side to side lines, any lines and markers should actually be placed at an angle in line with the geographic structure of the country. Looking at the attached map again ( or Google Maps/Earth) you can see that if we agree to use Stirling as the centre of Scotland (within the Central Belt) then you can see how the true ‘West’ v ‘Middle’ v ‘East’ debate for National racing should take place. I have tried to structure this debate around current Scottish Channel racing race points for the ‘East ‘ and ‘Middle’ . For ease of argument and just in case anyone thinks what I am saying is a good idea and wants to actually propose trying this next year I have taken modern well used liberation sites in Ireland ‘West’ race points rather than the original SNFC flyers locations. I think that you could take this ‘West’ ‘Middle’ ‘East†structure up and down the country and depending on your organisations decision to go ‘West’, ‘Middle’ or ‘East’ you could position your inland race points accordingly, allowing the Loft location, wind direction accompanied by the drag of the convoy to diminish as the distance steps out and all the time you would have a clear understanding thereafter of the importance race point location matched against loft location plays. You never know creating race points that ‘zig zag’ down England could be the fairest way for an Organisation to race. If you consider an answer to the sometime heated debates that always take place after Young Bird Nationals, about the fairness of the race points added to the loft locations of the winners, a race from Tullamore would certainly change the complexion of any race never mind a young bird race. I would think there would have to be other preparatory races from the ‘South West’ of Scotland or even from Northern Ireland before such a National race was tried. However if it could be done in the late 1800’s then surely the modern racing pigeons should adapt quite easily. To continue on the fairness theme could it be that we offer three Young Bird nationals - West - Tullamore, Centre – Worcester and East – Leicester. To finish I have created a grid with a few race points with their approximate distances showing that a change into Ireland to create a true ‘West’ routes will not lessen the distance for the shorter National races and could provide an option against the current race points with a move across into the ‘Centre’ or ‘East’ for the longer traditional channel race points. I’ve also shown the approximate mileage into Fraserburgh to help understand the implications beyond the central belt for such a change. West Route Middle Route East Route Approximate Distance to Stirling Approximate Distance to Fraserburgh Tullamore 242 373 Mallow 335 466 Rosscarberry 377 508 Barley Cove 401 532 Worcester 279 380 Lamballa 532 638 Alancon 557 646 Nantes 623 724 Peterborough 287 361 Ypres 459 512 Arras 489 547 Lille Belgium 492 523 Cologne 572 598 Reims 579 633 Submitted to add to the debate on the subject of SNFC Race Points and their perceived advantages. Cheers....