Guest Paulo Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hi all just after some advice. Last year I raced my old birds on the elite modern system of feeding. Did ok and won some decent results but they seemed to lack something for the middle to long distance events and a lot of corn was wasted as they didn't actually seem to like the stuff. The theory behind it is you fed a high carbs depurative mix at the beginning of the week, then a buildup mix containing protein, then finally a high fat energy mix before basketing. For young bird racing I was feeding Versile Laga Gerry Plus in the mornings with Bamfords Euro Winner Leige on the evening. The idea behind this was giving the birds a high carb mix to fill them full of energy for the intensive training they were getting on the morning and evening. Then filling them up while they were resting with proteins to ensure that their growth wasn't impaired by lack of protein as they are still growing animals and I feel that just Gerry Plus wouldn't have been too good for them. They also got red band which I’m a big believer in for the sprint races. This feeding worked really well and I ended up runner up to the young bird averages and getting decent combine position in the YB National. This year the price of Belgium Corn mixtures has went though the roof with the euro/pound exchange rate situation. I’ve therefore decided to discard the elite modern system as the cost of it is massive and you have four bags of corn on the go at the same time and like I said I felt it was lacking something at the longer distances and the birds didn’t seem to eat it as readily as Gerry Plus. So how for old bird feeding I need a decent feeding system to race with. I will be racing 12 natural hens and a team of 9 widowhood cocks. I have already decided to use Gerry Plus as one of my base racing mixtures as its great stuff. I will be following the feeding schedule of the elite modern system as this did seem to work well but using different mixtures. I need a protein build up mixture however the dilemma I have is was at a pigeon moot and the experts were saying one of the biggest errors you can make is feed too much protein. They also felt that British corn mixtures such as bam fords were poor quality and not as good as Belgium corn. I was going to use Bam fords Eurowinner Leige as my build up mixture for the longer distance events but after hearing the comments at the moot I’m having different thoughts. Perhaps this mixture may be a bit too much protein rich for old bird racing? Whats your thoughts on this and have you any recommendations as to mixtures you have used? So far candidates for my build up mix are:- 1.Bamfords Eurowinner Leige 2.Bucktons Ultimate with red skinned peanuts 3.Versile Laga Best All round 4.Bosmolen PLX 5.Bosmolen Jet Mix For my fats I was going to use:- 1.Red Band as I’m a big believer in it 2.Mix extra peanuts in Feeding eh!!!!! Most complicated and essential thing to try and get right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCHEQHEN Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have always used Bucktons or Countrywide high protein no maize as the build up mix for young and old birds and have always found the quality good (though I haven't bought any since racing finished in 2008) strange that an 8 and a bracket equates to a smiley that I can't normally get to work LOL !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asha Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hey Paulo,what you got between your ears,do you not relise how much englsh crops are imported into holland and belgium? And another thing,you say proteins real bad for hard distance work,YOUR HAVING A LAUGH MATE 95% of real distance fanciers here BBC,BICC use either bean base or hopper bean 24-7 and been doing it for years. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hey Paulo,what you got between your ears,do you not relise how much englsh crops are imported into holland and belgium? And another thing,you say proteins real bad for hard distance work,YOUR HAVING A LAUGH MATE 95% of real distance fanciers here BBC,BICC use either bean base or hopper bean 24-7 and been doing it for years. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Just going off what these pigeon men at the moot were saying mate. They seem to think Belgium quality control of the product etc is better than English companies. I must admit Versile Laga corn is always spot on when some bags of Bamfords have small stones and rubbish in which makes you wonder where its been stored. Any company can feed corn though a polisher its how its being stored and dried that makes a difference. My dads a real distance flyer as you call them and he used to feed high protein when he raced. However times and feeding science have changed even Jim Emerton in the BHW advocates Gerry Plus which is a low protein mix. I'm simply asking about what mixes people have used and what percentage of protein is needed. The Eurowinner Leige is a very strong mix full of protein and fed in conjunction with a high carb mix it worked well for the YB's with red band later in the week to provide fat. However a growing animal such as a YB needs more protein than a fully developed old bird so I'm wondering if eurowinner leige would still be approriate or if I should go for a lower protein content in whatever build up mix I use. The panel at the moot consisted of five people who have all won the Up North Combine which is the strongest organisation in England. Some of them have won it multpile times so when men like that say something you tend to take notice. What do you feed then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have always used Bucktons or Countrywide high protein no maize as the build up mix for young and old birds and have always found the quality good (though I haven't bought any since racing finished in 2008) strange that an 8 and a bracket equates to a smiley that I can't normally get to work LOL !! Cheers Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkins Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 for last feeds use sunflower, rape and chopped peanuts, and pop corn maize which can all be bought in small amounts off the high street as a base buy vesle laga super widow and add a straight barley to it depending on the work the birds are doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 A question for not only asha but anyone else that may hopper feed beans. Why is this feeding regime so good for the distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aye ready Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 paulo take a look at versa laga prestige,a bit pricey too but if ur not working with a lot of birds add this to ur list of candidates.i think it's false economy with a lot of fanciers they buy the cheaper feeding but feed large teams.Go with what ur pocket can afford,birds have got to work around the fancier not the other way round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I feed super widow diat 200 and depurative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I feed super widow diat 200 and depurative all Versa Laga by the way ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.massey Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I break the feeding up. From a light to a heavy as race aproges. I think to achieve the best results you do need to break the feeding up. Building up for the muscles for the race on a saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenlands Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Over the past few seasons i've flown my birds on the Gerry + system, has you say the price of Versa-laga has gone through the roof,however in my search for a cheaper feed without the loss of too much quality i went for Natural breeding mix.OK it's a breeding mix, but if you get chance to look at it you may come up with the same conclusion that i did.In my opinion i think i could definately race my old birds upto the coast 300 ml give or take. and would make a good mix for racing young birds 25kg £12:50.Lindsay C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.massey Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi Hotrod. So is beans a big priority in distance racing feed?? I am wanting to learn to fly my birds the extreme distances so any advice will be good. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 no not a big priority mate just another tool. some use them some dont , but dont knock the guy's that do, thats all . as the thread is about feeding , it was wrong of asha to confuse novices . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asha Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 , it was wrong of asha to confuse novices . How come i confused novices?,paulo quoted beans are no good for distance ;D ;D.i put him straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surfer Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 This is what I do and my main aim is distance, I use a high protein mix as a base corn because I can feed my stock and my young birds the same corn. Then I also buy straight barley and a bag of high fats corn and a bag of conditioner .The high protein mix I use mainly at the beggining of the season when I am trying to build muscle for the main events at the end of the season. As the season progresses the other corns come into play. Will somebody please tell me if they think I have got this wrong. Surfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.massey Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Sounds good to me surfer. I have always stated that my main aim in the pigeon world is showing my pigeons in the winter months. But I have now decided to race my birds with the distance the main aim. I feed my show team like widowhood birds by breaking them down on the monday with a duperitive mix and building up towards the Fri. worked well for my team in the show pen so will be using same sort of methods for the racing season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spin cycle Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 its not just about carbs/protein levels its also about 'availability'. maize is high in simple sugars which are easy to break down giving the energy quite quickly...but if its not used this energy is put into growth/ production ( thats why it's popular in livestock rations). chitted barley uses enzymes to convert complex sugars to simpler ones...this is then stopped in the malting process..to produce malt. surplus protein is not lost in the diet but converted into energy...but involves several stages and is quite slow. if any 'energy' is not used it is stored as fat. i don't feed maize,not because it isn't an excellent feed, but because i can't sus how to use it...and i seem to fatten my birds with a resultant loss of form/pigeons.as an inexperienced fancier i find beans/wheat/barley/maples a safer mix until i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgilad Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 mine do ok on peanuts and cornflakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.massey Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 its not just about carbs/protein levels its also about 'availability'. maize is high in simple sugars which are easy to break down giving the energy quite quickly...but if its not used this energy is put into growth/ production ( thats why it's popular in livestock rations). chitted barley uses enzymes to convert complex sugars to simpler ones...this is then stopped in the malting process..to produce malt. surplus protein is not lost in the diet but converted into energy...but involves several stages and is quite slow. if any 'energy' is not used it is stored as fat. i don't feed maize,not because it isn't an excellent feed, but because i can't sus how to use it...and i seem to fatten my birds with a resultant loss of form/pigeons.as an inexperienced fancier i find beans/wheat/barley/maples a safer mix until i do. I was always told maize puts water into the body? Might be wrong but this maybe the reason it seems to fatten your birds up. I am no expert and might be totally wrong but I got told not to give it while showing as it makes them a bit heavy due to extra water in body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribble Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Protein, Carbs & then Fats?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 sorry asha misread the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkins Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 i think fats are more inportant the last 10 days before a 5-600 mile race than beans or peas, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 when i raced i used v laga s widowhood, diet 200,red maiz,this was up to 440 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asha Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 no no no,you boys aren`t getting the point,it`s not so much as what you feed,more when and why,paulo tells us he used an expensive so called feeding system,nothing wrong with that,but the joke is he would have done just as well if not better feeding whole barley,or 1/2wheat and 1/2 barleyand if he was inclined,for the harder or longer races,ground nut oil(peanut) at asda /tesco`s approx85pfor 500ml. How cheap is that,the oil will put your power there,perhaps as you get out across channel nantes,tours,coat 3days before basketing,pau tarbes,start 9-10days before, No protein to rebuild muscle you say,rubbish,even the plump,fat english stuff in a wet season comes in at 9-11% protein, try not to be confused by farmers who would not know decent stuff if it hit them in the face,it still shocks me when i`m searching out direct from farms how little many many know,they think protein means everything. As the saying goes,many roads lead to Rome,it matters not if you feed heavy protein,or light cereals,as long as it gets you where YOU entend to go,that`s good enough. For the jokers who try to tell us boys what to feed in pretty bags with pictures on(conmen)your having a laugh BUT NOT ON ME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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