wilkins Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 no no no,you boys aren`t getting the point,it`s not so much as what you feed,more when and why,paulo tells us he used an expensive so called feeding system,nothing wrong with that,but the joke is he would have done just as well if not better feeding whole barley,or 1/2wheat and 1/2 barleyand if he was inclined,for the harder or longer races,ground nut oil(peanut) at asda /tesco`s approx85pfor 500ml. How cheap is that,the oil will put your power there,perhaps as you get out across channel nantes,tours,coat 3days before basketing,pau tarbes,start 9-10days before, No protein to rebuild muscle you say,rubbish,even the plump,fat english stuff in a wet season comes in at 9-11% protein, try not to be confused by farmers who would not know decent stuff if it hit them in the face,it still shocks me when i`m searching out direct from farms how little many many know,they think protein means everything. As the saying goes,many roads lead to Rome,it matters not if you feed heavy protein,or light cereals,as long as it gets you where YOU entend to go,that`s good enough. For the jokers who try to tell us boys what to feed in pretty bags with pictures on(conmen)your having a laugh BUT NOT ON ME. i think you right protein to rebuild after hard work, then 3 weeks prior fats and carbs and like you say peanut oil can replace the fat mix and barley and wheat are full of carbs, i just would rather add maize and fat seeds as i think they will eat more maize and it important that they eat well leading up to basketing.. but the idea is the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Just a thought from outside the box on this subject some people have a regimental feed system some at strict times some in pots in boxes some wont feed a particular grain,but surely for the longer races in particular whenbirds are in panniers for 3 days or more this feed system goes out the window as they can eat whatever grain at whatever time the convoyer feeds i wonder what our reaction would be if we were on a strict specific diet for a week or so then for a few days lots of goodies were thrown in front of us (i bet a lot of us would gorge ourselves, id then like to see us run round the block) my be a load of rubbish in what ive posted but think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.massey Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Just a thought from outside the box on this subject some people have a regimental feed system some at strict times some in pots in boxes some wont feed a particular grain,but surely for the longer races in particular whenbirds are in panniers for 3 days or more this feed system goes out the window as they can eat whatever grain at whatever time the convoyer feeds i wonder what our reaction would be if we were on a strict specific diet for a week or so then for a few days lots of goodies were thrown in front of us (i bet a lot of us would gorge ourselves, id then like to see us run round the block) my be a load of rubbish in what ive posted but think about it Was thinking the same myself mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 well on the longer races birds will have been fed by the convoyer , but fats would have been built up before they went and as stored do come into effect , as for running around the block i'd rather take the car ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonboyuk Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 well on the longer races birds will have ben fed by the convoyer , but fats would have been built up before they went and as stored do come into effect , as for running around the block i'd rather take the car ;D ;D ;D ;D ive always wondered if this is not always the case with the convoyer feeding the birds oldyellow? could it be the case that many times only the strong can get to the food so its no guarantee that a bird will get to the feed? you do built up certain fats prior to a race, thats part of a good training regime, you should also be using certain complex carbs amongs a few other things so that it gets transferred to energy during the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 well if birds are basket trainned as ybs they'll fair better than those that aint and those that travel better and eat and drink well will be in the running if there ability is up to it in my view you have 3 types of feed , 1st is protein which aids growth and repair , 2nd is instant energy , 3rd is stored energy such as fats , like any engine a bird has its requirements and needs to be fueled according to how many miles it would be doing , you could take the various fuels for car racing into consideration , rocket fuel for a very fast funny car a short load of fuel for a quick journey at high speed , and a formula one car loaded with fuel to cover a course but with a big difference , not a very great comparison but i hope you get my gist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonboyuk Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 nothing wrong with the analogy oldyellow, horses for courses, or fuel for flight. (topic of my new book) ;D protien is only useful if used with the right carbs, amino acids and what not to repair effectively, it won't do it on its own. the instant energy one is the tricky one for the birds, you need to know which fats turn into sugar energy during flight. can get complicated if you want it to and if you have time and the inclination to tak that time to work out the best you'll end up with winners on your hands no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I've always wondered if pigeons that are hopper fed beans come into better condition or hold their condition better in the race basket by the simple fact that they are being fed a higher carb diet (in the basket) to what they're accustomed to, also do they tend to eat more in the basket having a varied diet now in front of them. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkins Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I feed super widow diat 200 and depurative to what distance do you fly them on this mix thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 its not just about carbs/protein levels its also about 'availability'. maize is high in simple sugars which are easy to break down giving the energy quite quickly...but if its not used this energy is put into growth/ production ( thats why it's popular in livestock rations). chitted barley uses enzymes to convert complex sugars to simpler ones...this is then stopped in the malting process..to produce malt. surplus protein is not lost in the diet but converted into energy...but involves several stages and is quite slow. if any 'energy' is not used it is stored as fat. ][/color i don't feed maize,not because it isn't an excellent feed, but because i can't sus how to use it...and i seem to fatten my birds with a resultant loss of form/pigeons.as an inexperienced fancier i find beans/wheat/barley/maples a safer mix until i do. i dont know who told you that , totally wrong info mate , protien puts weight on the birds not carbs(maize), the dutch feed cribs maize enroute to their distance races in the baskets .they could be in a basket for a week at a time , so would be like bags of sugar(heavy as ) trying to fly 600/700/800 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spin cycle Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 its not just about carbs/protein levels its also about 'availability'. maize is high in simple sugars which are easy to break down giving the energy quite quickly...but if its not used this energy is put into growth/ production ( thats why it's popular in livestock rations). chitted barley uses enzymes to convert complex sugars to simpler ones...this is then stopped in the malting process..to produce malt. surplus protein is not lost in the diet but converted into energy...but involves several stages and is quite slow. if any 'energy' is not used it is stored as fat. i don't feed maize,not because it isn't an excellent feed, but because i can't sus how to use it...and i seem to fatten my birds with a resultant loss of form/pigeons.as an inexperienced fancier i find beans/wheat/barley/maples a safer mix until i do. i might be wrong about maize being high in simple sugars as i did it from memory. the nutritional value of maize is enhanced by its oil content. basic sugars are called monosaccarides, then there are disaccarides (2) and polysaccarides ( many)....what i have found is that disaccarides are split into monosaccarides by hydrolosis (the addition of water). if maize is high in disaccarides it might be why b.massey was told that the birds took on water. perhaps its best to buy feed allready mixed after all (dizzy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 i dont know who told you that , totally wrong info mate , protien puts weight on the birds not carbs(maize), the dutch feed cribs maize enroute to their distance races in the baskets .they could be in a basket for a week at a time , so would be like bags of sugar(heavy as ) trying to fly 600/700/800 miles. there are several types of maize don't give much feeding value in difference with the main differences being mostly in outlook and the vitamin percentages. Maize contains many digestible carbohydrates, little raw cellulose and an awful lot of fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spin cycle Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 there are several types of maize don't give much feeding value in difference with the main differences being mostly in outlook and the vitamin percentages. Maize contains many digestible carbohydrates, little raw cellulose and an awful lot of fat. wish i'd just said that in first place (dizzy).......(evil) (evil) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 no no no,you boys aren`t getting the point,it`s not so much as what you feed,more when and why,paulo tells us he used an expensive so called feeding system,nothing wrong with that,but the joke is he would have done just as well if not better feeding whole barley,or 1/2wheat and 1/2 barleyand if he was inclined,for the harder or longer races,ground nut oil(peanut) at asda /tesco`s approx85pfor 500ml. How cheap is that,the oil will put your power there,perhaps as you get out across channel nantes,tours,coat 3days before basketing,pau tarbes,start 9-10days before, No protein to rebuild muscle you say,rubbish,even the plump,fat english stuff in a wet season comes in at 9-11% protein, try not to be confused by farmers who would not know decent stuff if it hit them in the face,it still shocks me when i`m searching out direct from farms how little many many know,they think protein means everything. As the saying goes,many roads lead to Rome,it matters not if you feed heavy protein,or light cereals,as long as it gets you where YOU entend to go,that`s good enough. For the jokers who try to tell us boys what to feed in pretty bags with pictures on(conmen)your having a laugh BUT NOT ON ME. :-/WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS AND HAVE YOU ANY RECOMMENDATION AS TO MIXTURES YOU HAVE[ USED], ASHA YES FIRST CLASS D HEAD :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 maize about 3.5% fat according to the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spin cycle Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 your talking through a hole in yer heid maize has very little fat, how did you come to that conclusion? maize has its far as 'oil' as in cornoil for cooking. according to c.osman (racing pigeons) maize has a digestible oil content of 3.9% compared to ceareals 1.2%. oats are actually listed at 4% but the carbs. are alot lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribble Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I've always wondered if pigeons that are hopper fed beans come into better condition or hold their condition better in the race basket by the simple fact that they are being fed a higher carb diet (in the basket) to what they're accustomed to, also do they tend to eat more in the basket having a varied diet now in front of them. :-/ I think you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 maize has its far as 'oil' as in cornoil for cooking. according to c.osman (racing pigeons) maize has a digestible oil content of 3.9% compared to ceareals 1.2%. oats are actually listed at 4% but the carbs. are alot lower.im not compairing it with oats im saying that it does'nt have lots of fat as one guy on here said.oilseed rape,peenuts,sunflower now they have plenty of fats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I thought there was a table on the forum, maybe in articles / tools section of home page, which listed the nutritional breakdown of grains. Thought I'd a copy of the link too, both seem to have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aye ready Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 just a thought does it really matter what u feed,if ure doos hit form nothing will stop them,my auld man won the john donald trophy for the best average over 17 races in the midland fed feeding a mixture produced by swainstons called trophy it wasn't a great mix but it was cheap.This was right out to sartilly with the scc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 just a thought does it really matter what u feed,if ure doos hit form nothing will stop them,my auld man won the john donald trophy for the best average over 17 races in the midland fed feeding a mixture produced by swainstons called trophy it wasn't a great mix but it was cheap.This was right out to sartilly with the scc you might well be right many roads lead to rome but the problem was what are the seeds/corn that are high in fat?? i am no expert but i think oldyellow has this one wrong i allways looked to peanuts and the like for fats and maize for energy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Here's the link for the nutritional value of the grains http://www.pigeonbasics.com/links/category-downloads.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 can you tell me what the fat content of maize alf?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 sory alf you have allready done it 3.5% now that doesnt look too high to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Anyway it says maize is protein 8.9% carbs 68.9& water 15% fibre 2% fat 3.9% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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