John Hood

[bullcock]

if the winners hit the solway. they should hit section d and section e. not for one minute do i think the winners hit the solway then head east.

Edinburgh is due north of the Solway.

[dkj]

Edinburgh is due north of the Solway.

 

you no and i no if they hit gretna. you must get them up the a 74 to win in central scotland.

[peter pandy]

In the seventies I asked Eddy Newcombe if the birds came out the South or East and he replied South West. In other words they broke from the Solway area which I found strange however in the early Eighties I used to fly regularly from Edinburgh to Heathrow and I will never forget seeing as the plane went in a curved flight just East of the Solway Firth. Looking out the window I could understand what he meant as from the Solway area the valleys heading North West were apparent from a height of 20,000 feet all the way through to the East of Scotland Pentlands. When working in the Cotswald's 5 miles East of Cheltenham I could see racing at 2,000 feet SNFC birds on their way home which would have them coming up the West side of the Pennine Chain into the Solway area. The Southern Uplands are pretty formidable to a lone pigeon in my opinion and it would take the easier route via the Pentlands adding another 100 miles to the West flying birds which is why Eddy done so well. To answer Dave's question I believe the West Section fanciers are more concerned with big birdage Fed racing rather than keeping a team of long distance birds. There are of course exception's.

[bullcock]

you no and i no if they hit gretna. you must get them up the a 74 to win in central scotland.

Yip 100% agree.

Talking about the 74, John Callan of Lesmahegow said he trains on a line out to Dunbar as his birds come out the east.

His birds should come up the 74 also.

[dkj]

Yip 100% agree.

Talking about the 74, John Callan of Lesmahegow said he trains on a line out to Dunbar as his birds come out the east.

His birds should come up the 74 also.

 

 

there you go then. but i no where i want mine coming from. and it aint dunbar. its straight up the a74. but every man 2 there own, hey ho

[yeboah]

Sure am right in thinking

Eddie Newcombe s. Miss Muffat was so named because he single tossed it from here

I stand corrected but remember him quoting that

[Kyleakin Lofts]

I am a complete novice as you all know, but back in the days of the 60's and 70's when I scraped out for a National flier, the entry from the west was far greater than it is now. DRAG. The west appeared to me to fare much better than it does now. The club members had regular hawk culls at the mine bing and other areas.

 

Re-entering the hobby, still only at scraping out level, my observations tell me that the DRAG is now laden to the EAST. There are no hawk shoots and because of the BOP problem the traditional centre route has been changed to an easterly one.

 

The geography of the UK also indicates to me that the west is ideal BOP habitat, borne out by the accepted "fact" that the Lake District is the most populated BOP habitat in Europe. I believe the hills around the Nith Valley area, Solway into Ayrshire, and the Lockerbie hills, Solway into Lanarkshire, are also very densely populated with BOP.

 

Seems of little wonder to me that the pigeons head North via the easterly valleys into the Lothians before doglegging to the west. Both race route and BOP avoidance tactics dictate this.

 

Only the very rare and courageous pigeon will homes on a true line into the west through this BOP infested territory. Many may attempt it and either be turned back or fail to navigate the many attacks they suffer whilst bravely making their attempt.

 

I accept that I may have been brainwashed by the very poor standard of fancier in the west, but I have spoken with a few National fanciers who have made similar statements, so I do doubt this.

 

My opinion, at this stage, is firmly set on the indicators that the DRAG favours the east. The RACE ROUTE flown in preparation favours the east. The GEOGRAPHY and NATURAL BOP HABITATS favour the east.

 

I remain open minded to have the facts placed before me which will contradict my current thought processes.

[peter2010]

I am a complete novice as you all know, but back in the days of the 60's and 70's when I scraped out for a National flier, the entry from the west was far greater than it is now. DRAG. The west appeared to me to fare much better than it does now. The club members had regular hawk culls at the mine bing and other areas.

 

Re-entering the hobby, still only at scraping out level, my observations tell me that the DRAG is now laden to the EAST. There are no hawk shoots and because of the BOP problem the traditional centre route has been changed to an easterly one.

 

The geography of the UK also indicates to me that the west is ideal BOP habitat, borne out by the accepted "fact" that the Lake District is the most populated BOP habitat in Europe. I believe the hills around the Nith Valley area, Solway into Ayrshire, and the Lockerbie hills, Solway into Lanarkshire, are also very densely populated with BOP.

 

Seems of little wonder to me that the pigeons head North via the easterly valleys into the Lothians before doglegging to the west. Both race route and BOP avoidance tactics dictate this.

 

Only the very rare and courageous pigeon will homes on a true line into the west through this BOP infested territory. Many may attempt it and either be turned back or fail to navigate the many attacks they suffer whilst bravely making their attempt.

 

I accept that I may have been brainwashed by the very poor standard of fancier in the west, bvut I have spoken with a few National fanciers who have made similar statements, so I do doubt this.

 

My opinion, at this stage, is firmly set on the indicators that the DRAG favours the east. The RACE ROUTE flown in preparation favours the east. The GEOGRAPHY and NATURAL BOP HABITATS favour the east.

 

I remain open minded to have the facts placed before me which will contradict my current thought processes.

 

You never mentioned prevailing west winds

[VMS]

It's easier in the East compared to the West,but if I lived in the East I might also start a thred like this.Self preservation :lol:

[dkj]

It's easier in the East compared to the West,but if I lived in the East I might also start a thred like this.Self preservation :lol:

 

east calder central fed. middle of the country. and winning pigeons into the central belt never see the east coast of scotland racing in old bird racing.

davie elliot does not have a problem getting them.

[VMS]

east calder central fed. middle of the country. and winning pigeons into the central belt never see the east coast of scotland racing in old bird racing.

davie elliot does not have a problem getting them.

Results dominated by East and South,result does not tell lies. But if I move East I will agree with you. :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[dkj]

Results dominated by East and South,result does not tell lies. But if I move East I will agree with you. :emoticon-0136-giggle:

 

so are you up near the winners in time in your area with the snfc.

[Smithy1]

Dkj you can't be a knowledgeable fancier to state such things, you are basically saying people in inverness , largs, arrochar, have as good a chance as Peter virtue in copath if the bird is right, i've never seen as much ignorance to the sport..or is this a wind up???

[VMS]

so are you up near the winners in time in your area with the snfc.

3rd section 22nd open gold cup first pigen I have seen coming out the West since I started 10 years ago,the rest come out the East fact and find it quite Funny that fanciers that stay in the East seem more educated as to the direction our pigeons in the West come from.as I said if I flew in the east I would support your views.

[dkj]

Dkj you can't be a knowledgeable fancier to state such things, you are basically saying people in inverness , largs, arrochar, have as good a chance as Peter virtue in copath if the bird is right, i've never seen as much ignorance to the sport..or is this a wind up???

 

put up your results and if there better than mine i listen 2 you.. ARE YOU TALKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. IF NOT PUT YOU BEST RESULTS UP WITH THE SNFC

the national has been win in stranraer/ayrshire/ paisley/ peterhead. but you need the right day 2 do it. but if you dont get the right day you still be with in a reasonable time. not 20 hours behind, that nothing 2 do with loft location

AND STILL NEVER GOT A ANSWER, FROM THE WOLF IN SHEEP CLOTHING.

[dkj]

3rd section 22nd open gold cup first pigen I have seen coming out the West since I started 10 years ago,the rest come out the East fact and find it quite Funny that fanciers that stay in the East seem more educated as to the direction our pigeons in the West come from.as I said if I flew in the east I would support your views.

 

well done great result, cant see ur name on the snfc result mind

 

THERE YOU GO. i REST MY CASE YOU ANSWERED IT NOW, :emoticon-0123-party: COMMON SENCE

[VMS]

THERE YOU GO. i REST MY CASE YOU ANSWERED IT NOW, :emoticon-0123-party:

What that 1% of birds home from the West,while the rest home from the East into the West section. :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[dkj]

What that 1% of birds home from the West,while the rest home from the East into the West section. :emoticon-0136-giggle:

1% winning bird. remember where your winner came from the SOUTH WEST. homers from the east. as i keep saying :emoticon-0127-lipssealed: .

 

mind budgie saying 98% sh**

[eastcoaster]

I am one of the few that have raced in east and now in west , the brother also used to fly in Peebles but now flys in east where we originate ,

I am only building for the 500 ml races and am no where near the level of a lot of men through here at the distance , I t is without doubt a harder tougher terrain to race to , but part of me agree's that the great doos of years ago are,nt around in the west , when I started racing 40 years ago the west side always held there own in these races , not so much now but I put a lot of that down to the race programme and inland nats, our fed programme is geared for sprint racing this year which is no help to anyone that wishes to race the channel ! Years ago they had their own channel races but there is no interest now .

I have only sent to a few nationals since I came thru here and done ok in the inland nats but can't get my head around no matter where I train my birds from be it East Lothian or down Crawford/ Peebles way we in the west sect are 1 hour behind the east section ! Our west doo,s are not that bad and in my case are the same birds thet scored well in the east sect or were in the frame .

I am not a top pigeon man and possibly never will be but there is more to this than bad fanciers or bad birds .

Just my opinion .

[Kyleakin Lofts]

You never mentioned prevailing west winds

 

They were there in the 60's and 70's, so don't come into the modern scenario.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

I am one of the few that have raced in east and now in west , the brother also used to fly in Peebles but now flys in east where we originate ,

I am only building for the 500 ml races and am no where near the level of a lot of men through here at the distance , I t is without doubt a harder tougher terrain to race to , but part of me agree's that the great doos of years ago are,nt around in the west , when I started racing 40 years ago the west side always held there own in these races , not so much now but I put a lot of that down to the race programme and inland nats, our fed programme is geared for sprint racing this year which is no help to anyone that wishes to race the channel ! Years ago they had their own channel races but there is no interest now .

I have only sent to a few nationals since I came thru here and done ok in the inland nats but can't get my head around no matter where I train my birds from be it East Lothian or down Crawford/ Peebles way we in the west sect are 1 hour behind the east section ! Our west doo,s are not that bad and in my case are the same birds thet scored well in the east sect or were in the frame .

I am not a top pigeon man and possibly never will be but there is more to this than bad fanciers or bad birds .

Just my opinion .

 

Good post here.

I think money comes into play, being the root of all evil. Due to prohibitive costs Federations have dropped their Channel races. These were great trainers for the less experienced pigeons. They returned on a given route, and in this respect I agree with Davy, up the centre to Solway, then through the relevant valley to spread throughout the Fed. This no longer happens.

If pigeon men could just get their heads round this idea, which I think is fact, them perhaps they could overcome their selfish outlook on racing and, due to financial restrictions, agree to Combine racing from the Channel. Not ideal, but better than National racing for the experience the younger pigeons would gain.

I have no idea how to solve the problem of race route. I have heard you can train in any direction and if the pigeon is any good this fitness will make it take the correct line home. I have heard that you have to train on line. Pigeon men never agree.

Is it that our pigeons are good enough and do home on line, but are decimated by raptors, thus explaining the losses, and then finally home hours later after having had to circumnavigate the problem area, making them look like plodders instead of the courageous bird they actually are?

[Valiant Fifer]

Good post here.

I think money comes into play, being the root of all evil. Due to prohibitive costs Federations have dropped their Channel races. These were great trainers for the less experienced pigeons. They returned on a given route, and in this respect I agree with Davy, up the centre to Solway, then through the relevant valley to spread throughout the Fed. This no longer happens.

If pigeon men could just get their heads round this idea, which I think is fact, them perhaps they could overcome their selfish outlook on racing and, due to financial restrictions, agree to Combine racing from the Channel. Not ideal, but better than National racing for the experience the younger pigeons would gain.

I have no idea how to solve the problem of race route. I have heard you can train in any direction and if the pigeon is any good this fitness will make it take the correct line home. I have heard that you have to train on line. Pigeon men never agree.

Is it that our pigeons are good enough and do home on line, but are decimated by raptors, thus explaining the losses, and then finally home hours later after having had to circumnavigate the problem area, making them look like plodders instead of the courageous bird they actually are?

 

 

 

That's two good honest posts you've on this thread m8.

[bullcock]

1% winning bird. remember where your winner came from the SOUTH WEST. homers from the east. as i keep saying :emoticon-0127-lipssealed: .

 

mind budgie saying 98% sh**

Yes I believe in the 98% rule, but we are talking about 1or2% of the convoy at a race from 500+ miles, one of the biggest problems we in the west face which the East doesn't seem to have as bad is returns, returns can be terrible in the west in club racing and especially with young birds, which is the birds that could go on to be the 500 mile candidates, it is so much harder to build a team in the west.

Look at the young bird national, Billy Bisland timed more in an hour than the whole of the west got home, he has a good team of yearlings to work with, we get loused at 150 miles every year to the point most don't send which means we winter untested birds and the downward spiral continues.

 

Davy, you mentioned that you where in 20 hours before the west had a bird in a 600 mile race, yes a great performance and yes on that day the west wasn't at the races.

 

I like to use the young bird national as an example as it magnifies the line of flight the birds take and 100% of the convoy homes into the East and up into the north with the west hours behind, why is this?

 

An example was a few years ago at the young bird national from Leicester, a fancier named Barcley McCrindle & son where 1st,2nd and 3rd west region, they didn't even make the open result.

Where the east birds far too superior to his or was it the location?

 

P.S. the Mc Crindles blitzed the Fed that young bird season, on one race they piled them and it was 20 minutes before the next fed bird and another 20 minutes before any other fancier had a bird, so these where quality birds.

So even at 250 mile the birds rattle in and up the east coast, but the west has to wait hours before they start to arrive, not even one wee gallant bird ever makes it into the west at what would be the correct time.

I don't know where all the west birds go, but they arrive in large numbers up the east and into fife and across into broxburn area.

I know the east has the weight of birds, but you would think at least one wee west doo would be up with them, but never has it happened.

[dal2]

Yes I believe in the 98% rule, but we are talking about 1or2% of the convoy at a race from 500+ miles, one of the biggest problems we in the west face which the East doesn't seem to have as bad is returns, returns can be terrible in the west in club racing and especially with young birds, which is the birds that could go on to be the 500 mile candidates, it is so much harder to build a team in the west.

Look at the young bird national, Billy Bisland timed more in an hour than the whole of the west got home, he has a good team of yearlings to work with, we get loused at 150 miles every year to the point most don't send which means we winter untested birds and the downward spiral continues.

 

Davy, you mentioned that you where in 20 hours before the west had a bird in a 600 mile race, yes a great performance and yes on that day the west wasn't at the races.

 

I like to use the young bird national as an example as it magnifies the line of flight the birds take and 100% of the convoy homes into the East and up into the north with the west hours behind, why is this?

 

An example was a few years ago at the young bird national from Leicester, a fancier named Barcley McCrindle & son where 1st,2nd and 3rd west region, they didn't even make the open result.

Where the east birds far too superior to his or was it the location?

 

P.S. the Mc Crindles blitzed the Fed that young bird season, on one race they piled them and it was 20 minutes before the next fed bird and another 20 minutes before any other fancier had a bird, so these where quality birds.

So even at 250 mile the birds rattle in and up the east coast, but the west has to wait hours before they start to arrive, not even one wee gallant bird ever makes it into the west at what would be the correct time.

I don't know where all the west birds go, but they arrive in large numbers up the east and into fife and across into broxburn area.

I know the east has the weight of birds, but you would think at least one wee west doo would be up with them, but never has it happened.

Sometimes?

 

http://www.snfc.co.uk/uploads/results/10.html

[bullcock]

Sometimes?

 

http://www.snfc.co.uk/uploads/results/10.html

I was referring to the young bird national, and yes sometimes a gallant bird makes it into the west, but all the time they time into the east.