Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Survey Report on young bird sickness (YBs) in pigeons Introduction: The reason for the survey is I have 2 subjects who have never knowinglyhad YBs and thought that was a good starting point. The products I have asked about are all used by these 2 people with some red herrings thrown in. It is not about finding out what you use, it's about finding out which products these 2 guys use that appear to be helping them avoid YBs, and, if this is the case, after 4/5yrs with no YBs I don't think it is luck. I hope this gives you an insight into what I am trying to do. Will it help? I do not know but it is interesting, I have two other people who have answered and are amazingly close to what these 2 guys use and they also have NOT had YBs. Method of returns: 2 Pigeon Forum Sites: Pigeon Basics Pigeon Chat Plus some direct by E-mail Findings: Some people are not willing to give answers but I assured them it would be confidential. A lot of people use products even though they admitted they did not work. I was quite shocked to find the amount of antibiotics and non approved vaccinations being used.Conclusions Based on Data: 133 fanciers had YBs (76%)17 of this group used Permitherin (12.78%) 42 fanciers did not have YBs (24%)13 of this group used Permitherin (30.95%) On further investigation of the fanciers who had YBs and used Permitherin, it was established that most used it incorrectly. Other products that faired well were Egg Food and Hormoform see Chart It appears that an insect may be the probable cause of this problem. Whether the birds eat the eggs/larva or get bitten is inconclusive by this survey. It is not a Virus as all birds that mix in training vehicles / crates would be affected (as advised by the experts)Recommendations: The use of an insecticide like Permitherin or a substitute would be beneficial. It is important to clean the loft and saturate it to eliminate insects with a regular spray to help eliminate the problem in the future. A water based product is more cost effective and beneficial to our birds.Aerosol sprays cannot saturate the loft properly and are expensive and ineffective. Immediate Recommendations: Start with your YB loft / section saturate it before you put your youngsters in, giving your birds as much protection as possible.Future research is needed: It may be that fanciers do not realize there birds have a problem until they start training or racing then it hits them with poor returns. This may explain why we have such losses in some races and why Federation / Club birdages plummet soon after racing starts especially in the young bird season. I have at least 4 fanciers who have had what they believe to be YBs and have decided to trial a Permitherin type product for 2017. They will follow the instructions to the letter to see if it helps them in 2017. The results will not be known until approx September 2017 Please click for graph:YBS graph PB 270217.pdf Should you wish to know more or ask any questions I am on Pigeon Basics or Tel: 01224 741028 Ian McKay“Kingsleaâ€KingswellsAberdeenAB15 8SL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grdkeith Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Still no where near convinced its insects to blame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoaster Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 What is permitherin and what products is it in ? Personally never heard of it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlecock Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Red Stop solution for birds contains Permitherin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnaway Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I Ian I appreciate that you are basing your findings on the information that you received back therefore I will throw this Red Herring into the equation 3. Years ago I moved house and in doing so I was kindly gifted a hut that had never housed pigeons in it and when rebuilt it was thoroughly painted with Creasote and I suffered with YBS before the birds even had an opportunity to even let my youngsters mix with other birds Please note I did not even have old birds at the new site therefore no potential contamination Regards Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy bhoys Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I Ian I appreciate that you are basing your findings on the information that you received back therefore I will throw this Red Herring into the equation 3. Years ago I moved house and in doing so I was kindly gifted a hut that had never housed pigeons in it and when rebuilt it was thoroughly painted with Creasote and I suffered with YBS before the birds even had an opportunity to even let my youngsters mix with other birds Please note I did not even have old birds at the new site therefore no potential contamination Regards Andyandy it wiz the colour of your huts that done that :emoticon-0136-giggle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnaway Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Now now they are a subtle shade of brown now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy bhoys Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Now now they are a subtle shade of brown now lolthats why you started winning andy when you changed fae the ugly blue colour :emoticon-0136-giggle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannah petrie Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Red Stop solution for birds contains Permitherin Is this red stop solution what you put in their drinker???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter pandy Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 What is permitherin and what products is it in ? Personally never heard of it . Permetherin is an insecticide used in agriculture on MAIZE and WHEAT. expletive remove.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Permetherin is an insecticide used in agriculture on MAIZE and WHEAT. expletive remove.. What does the expletive remove mean Peter Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlecock Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yes Red Stop is added to.the water it's to kill red mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter pandy Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 What does the expletive remove mean Peter Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loftIan, I checked it out on Wikipedia amongst it's other uses "for Fk sake".. Definitely not for Pigeon Loft use where the inmates can come into contact with it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Ian, I checked it out on Wikipedia amongst it's other uses "for Fk sake".. Definitely not for Pigeon Loft use where the inmates can come into contact with it.. Sorry Peter I was advised by a Vet to use it and it does not harm the birds I have been using it since 2002 with no problems I even spray the birds with it It is also used on horses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannah petrie Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yes Red Stop is added to.the water it's to kill red mite Red stop solution does not contain Permitherin!! if it did and you give it to your birds in their drinker, you will find your birds upside down, feet in the air in the morning lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grdkeith Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 What does the expletive remove mean Peter Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loft Can I ask ian why you included permetherin in the questionnaire cos I had never heard of it and by the looks of it either had others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Can I ask ian why you included permetherin in the questionnaire cos I had never heard of it and by the looks of it either had others As stated on the original post it was one of the products used by the 2 subjects as was most of the other products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grdkeith Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 As stated on the original post it was one of the products used by the 2 subjects as was most of the other products Given the earlier posts regarding wikipedia do you know of any good fliers who use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Given the earlier posts regarding wikipedia do you know of any good fliers who use it? Yes but not my job to name them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grdkeith Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yes but not my job to name them Of the 13 who used permit her in and had no ybs,did you establish that they all used it correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yes I also contacted some who used it and got YBs and discovered they used it incorrectlyIt has a lot to do with the quality of the produce purchasedI also predicted some who never had YBs and asked what they used and you witnessed one of them But George if you do not want to be open minded about the survey just go to bed and YBs might go away by the morning Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grdkeith Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Yes I also contacted some who used it and got YBs and discovered they used it incorrectly I also predicted some who never had YBs and asked what they used and you witnessed one of them But George if you do not want to be open minded about the survey just go to bed and YBs might go away by the morning Ian Was only expressing any interest but seems questions can only be asked by yourself. Give me a shout if you come up with any real conclusions, I won't wait up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian McKay Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Was only expressing any interest but seems questions can only be asked by yourself. Give me a shout if you come up with any real conclusions, I won't wait up Nah George you are the one asking all the questions I can only try and answer them The survey was 175 people not my opinion Lets see your findings and any others I will gladly try and help Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlecock Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Red stop solution does not contain Permitherin!! if it did and you give it to your birds in their drinker, you will find your birds upside down, feet in the air in the morning lolHannah when I googled any Pigeon products with Permitherin in it one of the products that came up was Red Stop Solutions. I was just repeating what it said my mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froog Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Very interesting results Ian, I know you put a lot of time and effort into this problem, it certainly opened my eyes. Thank you for the time and work you have put into this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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