Final Report On Young Bird Sickness (Ybs) In Pigeons

[Ian McKay]

Survey Report on young bird sickness (YBs) in pigeons

 

Introduction:

 

The reason for the survey is I have 2 subjects who have never knowingly

had YBs and thought that was a good starting point.

 

The products I have asked about are all used by these 2 people with some red herrings thrown in. It is not about finding out what you use, it's about finding out which products these 2 guys use that appear to be helping them avoid YBs, and, if this is the case, after 4/5yrs with no YBs I don't think it is luck.

 

I hope this gives you an insight into what I am trying to do. Will it help? I do not know but it is interesting, I have two other people who have answered and are amazingly close to what these 2 guys use and they also have NOT had YBs.

 

 

Method of returns:

 

2 Pigeon Forum Sites:

 

Pigeon Basics

 

Pigeon Chat

 

Plus some direct by E-mail

Findings:

 

Some people are not willing to give answers but I assured them it would be confidential. A lot of people use products even though they admitted they did not work. I was quite shocked to find the amount of antibiotics and non approved vaccinations being used.

Conclusions Based on Data:

 

133 fanciers had YBs (76%)

17 of this group used Permitherin (12.78%)

 

42 fanciers did not have YBs (24%)

13 of this group used Permitherin (30.95%)

 

On further investigation of the fanciers who had YBs and used Permitherin, it was established that most used it incorrectly.

 

Other products that faired well were Egg Food and Hormoform see Chart

 

It appears that an insect may be the probable cause of this problem. Whether the birds eat the eggs/larva or get bitten is inconclusive by this survey.

 

It is not a Virus as all birds that mix in training vehicles / crates would be affected

(as advised by the experts)

Recommendations:

 

The use of an insecticide like Permitherin or a substitute would be beneficial.

It is important to clean the loft and saturate it to eliminate insects with a regular spray to help eliminate the problem in the future.

 

A water based product is more cost effective and beneficial to our birds.

Aerosol sprays cannot saturate the loft properly and are expensive and ineffective.

 

Immediate Recommendations:

 

Start with your YB loft / section saturate it before you put your youngsters in, giving your birds as much protection as possible.

Future research is needed:

 

It may be that fanciers do not realize there birds have a problem until they start training or racing then it hits them with poor returns. This may explain why we have such losses in some races and why Federation / Club birdages plummet soon after racing starts especially in the young bird season.

 

I have at least 4 fanciers who have had what they believe to be YBs and have decided to trial a Permitherin type product for 2017. They will follow the instructions to the letter to see if it helps them in 2017. The results will not be known until approx September 2017

 

Please click for graph:

YBS graph PB 270217.pdf

 

Should you wish to know more or ask any questions I am on Pigeon Basics or Tel: 01224 741028

 

Ian McKay

“Kingsleaâ€

Kingswells

Aberdeen

AB15 8SL

[grdkeith]

Still no where near convinced its insects to blame

[eastcoaster]

What is permitherin and what products is it in ? Personally never heard of it .

[Grizzlecock]

Red Stop solution for birds contains Permitherin

[Darnaway]

I Ian I appreciate that you are basing your findings on the information that you received back therefore I will throw this Red Herring into the equation

 

3. Years ago I moved house and in doing so I was kindly gifted a hut that had never housed pigeons in it and when rebuilt it was thoroughly painted with Creasote and I suffered with YBS before the birds even had an opportunity to even let my youngsters mix with other birds

 

Please note I did not even have old birds at the new site therefore no potential contamination

 

 

Regards Andy

[tommy bhoys]

I Ian I appreciate that you are basing your findings on the information that you received back therefore I will throw this Red Herring into the equation

 

3. Years ago I moved house and in doing so I was kindly gifted a hut that had never housed pigeons in it and when rebuilt it was thoroughly painted with Creasote and I suffered with YBS before the birds even had an opportunity to even let my youngsters mix with other birds

 

Please note I did not even have old birds at the new site therefore no potential contamination

 

 

Regards Andy

andy it wiz the colour of your huts that done that :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[Darnaway]

Now now they are a subtle shade of brown now lol

[tommy bhoys]

Now now they are a subtle shade of brown now lol

thats why you started winning andy when you changed fae the ugly blue colour :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[hannah petrie]

Red Stop solution for birds contains Permitherin

 

 

Is this red stop solution what you put in their drinker????

[peter pandy]

What is permitherin and what products is it in ? Personally never heard of it .

 

Permetherin is an insecticide used in agriculture on MAIZE and WHEAT. expletive remove..

[Ian McKay]

Permetherin is an insecticide used in agriculture on MAIZE and WHEAT. expletive remove..

 

 

What does the expletive remove mean Peter

 

Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loft

[Grizzlecock]

Yes Red Stop is added to.the water it's to kill red mite

[peter pandy]

What does the expletive remove mean Peter

 

Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loft

Ian, I checked it out on Wikipedia amongst it's other uses "for Fk sake".. Definitely not for Pigeon Loft use where the inmates can come into contact with it..

[Ian McKay]

Ian, I checked it out on Wikipedia amongst it's other uses "for Fk sake".. Definitely not for Pigeon Loft use where the inmates can come into contact with it..

 

 

Sorry Peter I was advised by a Vet to use it and it does not harm the birds I have been using it since 2002 with no problems I even spray the birds with it

 

It is also used on horses

[hannah petrie]

Yes Red Stop is added to.the water it's to kill red mite

 

 

Red stop solution does not contain Permitherin!! if it did and you give it to your birds in their drinker, you will find your birds upside down, feet in the air in the morning lol

[grdkeith]

What does the expletive remove mean Peter

 

Nobody said otherwise but I don't use it on Food it's for spraying the loft

 

 

Can I ask ian why you included permetherin in the questionnaire cos I had never heard of it and by the looks of it either had others

[Ian McKay]

Can I ask ian why you included permetherin in the questionnaire cos I had never heard of it and by the looks of it either had others

 

 

As stated on the original post it was one of the products used by the 2 subjects as was most of the other products

[grdkeith]

As stated on the original post it was one of the products used by the 2 subjects as was most of the other products

 

 

Given the earlier posts regarding wikipedia do you know of any good fliers who use it?

[Ian McKay]

Given the earlier posts regarding wikipedia do you know of any good fliers who use it?

 

 

Yes but not my job to name them

[grdkeith]

Yes but not my job to name them

 

 

Of the 13 who used permit her in and had no ybs,did you establish that they all used it correctly?

[Ian McKay]

Yes

 

I also contacted some who used it and got YBs and discovered they used it incorrectly

It has a lot to do with the quality of the produce purchased

I also predicted some who never had YBs and asked what they used and you witnessed one of them

 

But George if you do not want to be open minded about the survey just go to bed and YBs might go away by the morning

 

Ian

[grdkeith]

Yes

 

I also contacted some who used it and got YBs and discovered they used it incorrectly

 

I also predicted some who never had YBs and asked what they used and you witnessed one of them

 

But George if you do not want to be open minded about the survey just go to bed and YBs might go away by the morning

 

Ian

 

 

Was only expressing any interest but seems questions can only be asked by yourself. Give me a shout if you come up with any real conclusions, I won't wait up

[Ian McKay]

Was only expressing any interest but seems questions can only be asked by yourself. Give me a shout if you come up with any real conclusions, I won't wait up

 

 

Nah George you are the one asking all the questions I can only try and answer them

 

The survey was 175 people not my opinion

 

Lets see your findings and any others I will gladly try and help

 

Ian

[Grizzlecock]

Red stop solution does not contain Permitherin!! if it did and you give it to your birds in their drinker, you will find your birds upside down, feet in the air in the morning lol

Hannah when I googled any Pigeon products with Permitherin in it one of the products that came up was Red Stop

Solutions. I was just repeating what it said my mistake

[Froog]

Very interesting results Ian, I know you put a lot of time and effort into this problem, it certainly opened my eyes. Thank you for the time and work you have put into this