Clashing

[Novice]

Organisations should be racing on the traditional routes.....not dogleging around....crossing east to west thru north to south.

Spot on I wish I were racing in a federation that chooses a straight route.,

[Kyleakin Lofts]

North Road racing may be relatively new in Scotland since 2001, but both North and South routes are traditional in England, so I see no reason why Scotland cannot adopt sprint racing from North to South. This sort of racing in Scotland now has a 14 year tradition.

Traditions are only worth maintaining whilst they serve a purpose and remain relevant, given social and modernisational changes. Due to the increasing BOP problem the NGB decided to adopt RSPB advice and recommend racing from the East coast. I believe this change started around the 1980's and they are now traditional routes.

I don't think the RSPB advice helps nowadays, so perhaps the older traditions of racing up the centre of the country would be better, however I think there is a marginal difference in regard to safety from attack on the East coast route. The problem on this route lies more with the crossing from East to West. There is a period in the calendar when the English North Road racers and the Scottish South Road racers are very close and overlapping and this is a very dangerous time in regard to clashing, the subject of this thread. Likewise when the Western Scottish South Road racers and the Scottish North Road racers navigate from east to West they cross multiple Federation areas and are subject to the possibility of clashing. This is fact and a fact that increases the difficulty of a race controller's job. Not only do these controllers require to check their homeward routes, but they have to check liberations around their liberation and also arrivals across their route. This job has to be carried out thoroughly and involves a tremendous amount of work. Assumptions can cause mistakes and mistakes are only human. regular and continuous mistakes of the same manner are negligence.

 

Does clashing occur? In my opinion it does. I believe it occurs when pigeons are liberated close to each other, at too short a time interval and when they cross paths, either all at the one time or in any permutation. Too many organisations are vying for that slot within what is sometimes a short time interval. Clashing does not occur when pigeons from the West of Scotland are released at the same time from the same race-point and are travelling into the same general area. Prior education is required to allow the pigeons the knowledge of when to break and head to their own particular part of that general area. These combined liberations would not only reduce costs, but also reduce losses.

[grdkeith]

North Road racing may be relatively new in Scotland since 2001, but both North and South routes are traditional in England, so I see no reason why Scotland cannot adopt sprint racing from North to South. This sort of racing in Scotland now has a 14 year tradition.

Traditions are only worth maintaining whilst they serve a purpose and remain relevant, given social and modernisational changes. Due to the increasing BOP problem the NGB decided to adopt RSPB advice and recommend racing from the East coast. I believe this change started around the 1980's and they are now traditional routes.

I don't think the RSPB advice helps nowadays, so perhaps the older traditions of racing up the centre of the country would be better, however I think there is a marginal difference in regard to safety from attack on the East coast route. The problem on this route lies more with the crossing from East to West. There is a period in the calendar when the English North Road racers and the Scottish South Road racers are very close and overlapping and this is a very dangerous time in regard to clashing, the subject of this thread. Likewise when the Western Scottish South Road racers and the Scottish North Road racers navigate from east to West they cross multiple Federation areas and are subject to the possibility of clashing. This is fact and a fact that increases the difficulty of a race controller's job. Not only do these controllers require to check their homeward routes, but they have to check liberations around their liberation and also arrivals across their route. This job has to be carried out thoroughly and involves a tremendous amount of work. Assumptions can cause mistakes and mistakes are only human. regular and continuous mistakes of the same manner are negligence.

 

Does clashing occur? In my opinion it does. I believe it occurs when pigeons are liberated close to each other, at too short a time interval and when they cross paths, either all at the one time or in any permutation. Too many organisations are vying for that slot within what is sometimes a short time interval. Clashing does not occur when pigeons from the West of Scotland are released at the same time from the same race-point and are travelling into the same general area. Prior education is required to allow the pigeons the knowledge of when to break and head to their own particular part of that general area. These combined liberations would not only reduce costs, but also reduce losses.

 

Is there any evidence of clashing? Do your birds get reported up north or vice versa? Try keep your answer short

[Eby]

Spot on I wish I were racing in a federation that chooses a straight route.,

sorry Robert it will never happen in our Fed ,but we can always live in hope

[Novice]

sorry Robert it will never happen in our Fed ,but we can always live in hope

All in the name of overfly and lucrative young bird breeder buyer sales.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

There is evidence, but not convincing proof. We have had NE pigeons in our area and our pigeons have been reported in the NE. Why is this not convincing? From a Perth Racecourse race, I had a pigeon reported in Pitlochry and another was reported in Wick. There was no chance of clashing at this race, so more than likely BOP attack caused the scattering. My pigeon was back on the road and completed the programme after picking him up from this "mistake". There is nothing to prove the other strays didn't suffer from the same problem or were just "wandered", or as Andy Eadie says, not in the 2%.

[Eby]

All in the name of overfly and lucrative young bird breeder buyer sales.

Got to agree with you there robert and unfortunately it's the ones with the most power that are dictating.

[VMS]

Ybs will be prone but decent experienced old birds should not.theory not factual ðŸ‘😃

[MIK]

Myth, lame crutch for want of an excuse.

Novice, no disrespect, but pigeons fly at different heights regards winds, or no winds... just watch the birds. No such thing as clashing I believe, and Observance bears this out surely. Plus when birds are honed in a 'Racing they don't see anything till a split second before hand.

Now seem a release that gets caught via flock racing, the quickly dis band. Are we to say that things are different when out of sight I think not, especially when in flight ....... Now maybe GOING the same way if caught up by a just released lot and stragglers are caught up. JMO

 

 

Bullshit

different heights possibly when flying in different directions at different times. North versus south and all good libs. What happens when a north road convoy has been turned and they fly by lib site of a south road convoy at time of release ...no height restrictions there

 

clashing does take place ....its harder for young birds to navigate and when they fly that far in the wrong direction ..what feed where they given?...enough fuel to get back from a 100 mile race which has just turned into a 2/300 mile race??

 

Rosscarberry a few years back, 250 to me heading north, i got 2 cork pigeons in that where released in Malin Head 300 mile to cork south, one of mine was reported in Youghal 30 miles east of cork...where was the height ratio/ to wind there, or was it just coincidence?

 

fact from me

[hotrod]

Does it not work both ways ??

Yes it does pal , but I'm not the only one they don't talk to read Earlier post about ,letting go as fanciers birds are arriving home , I've spoke to loads of controllers each week , when they are crossing us we are just about home , they cross prob around 4 or 5 Feds each week ,I wonder how many are contacted by them , prob none , Ayrshire south road I spoke to robert reid on a weekly basis , this year not one call from their controller , yes I found out what time they were going etc from others sitting next to them . Yes it's a two way street , but seems to be mostly one way .

[grdkeith]

Ybs will be prone but decent experienced old birds should not.theory not factual ðŸ‘😃

 

 

Couldn't put it any better

[Roland]

A myth ... DAL12 If circling to clear WHEN first released, and hit a flock racing THEN they May get carried a very short distance till breaking away and heading in the right directions. In a matter of 200 to 800, 1200 yards TOP. but then that wouldn't cause a jiff regards losses or getting home.

[Novice]

Myth, lame crutch for want of an excuse.

Novice, no disrespect, but pigeons fly at different heights regards winds, or no winds... just watch the birds. No such thing as clashing I believe, and Observance bears this out surely. Plus when birds are honed in a 'Racing they don't see anything till a split second before hand.

Now seem a release that gets caught via flock racing, the quickly dis band. Are we to say that things are different when out of sight I think not, especially when in flight ....... Now maybe GOING the same way if caught up by a just released lot and stragglers are caught up. JMO

Roland, no disrespect taken but I cannot agree with your post. The height at which pigeons fly is actually determined by a number of factors and I consider the main determining factor to be how well prepared the birds are for the job in hand. When I walk round the town I live in I can always tell which loft will be with the winners on Saturday. Their birds exercise better at a greater height. When I see birds flying higher than mine I know I need to improve my management.

Honestly there can be no proof for or against clashing but I do know from convoyer feedback that our federation youngsters frequently split onto 3 or 4 groups on liberation. I have no reason why they done this but if every federation's birds do this then the possibility of clashing increases infinitely.

 

Yes it does pal , but I'm not the only one they don't talk to read Earlier post about ,letting go as fanciers birds are arriving home , I've spoke to loads of controllers each week , when they are crossing us we are just about home , they cross prob around 4 or 5 Feds each week ,I wonder how many are contacted by them , prob none , Ayrshire south road I spoke to robert reid on a weekly basis , this year not one call from their controller , yes I found out what time they were going etc from others sitting next to them . Yes it's a two way street , but seems to be mostly one way .

Maybe the dug is deid!

[We man]

When we talk about clashing WHY do we have so many half full transporters from Scotland skittering about heading for more or less the same area to liberate,for instance hear in the west of Scotland and further afield if we were all going together and liberating at the same time clashing would be a lot less surely,but saying that I think most of us know the reason it will not happen,big fish small pond,omho

[dal2]

A myth ... DAL12 If circling to clear WHEN first released, and hit a flock racing THEN they May get carried a very short distance till breaking away and heading in the right directions. In a matter of 200 to 800, 1200 yards TOP. but then that wouldn't cause a jiff regards losses or getting home.

aye??

 

How do they get reported in an area miles in the opposite direction?

[frank-123]

aye??

 

How do they get reported in an area miles in the opposite direction?

 

Peregrine

[dal2]

Peregrine

aye that tae, Clashing nonsense for you Frank?

[frank-123]

aye that tae, Clashing nonsense for you Frank?

 

Birds on route heading home and turning and joining another batch for me doesn't happen in my opinion. Once they are in race mode nothing will stop them unless its a bird of prey which could turn or divert a batch.

I think liberating pigeons and another liberation in the same area before the birds get a line for home may mean they join in with each other.

[dal2]

Birds on route heading home and turning and joining another batch for me doesn't happen in my opinion. Once they are in race mode nothing will stop them unless its a bird of prey which could turn or divert a batch.

I think liberating pigeons and another liberation in the same area before the birds get a line for home may mean they join in with each other.

These batches that mill up and doon the Annan water valley should get intae that race mode not to mention mine that overshoot in a tail wind lol

[frank-123]

These batches that mill up and doon the Annan water valley should get intae that race mode not to mention mine that overshoot in a tail wind lol

 

Can you see what's up ahead when they are going up and down the valley? They don't overshoot coming from 500 miles!!

[dal2]

Can you see what's up ahead when they are going up and down the valley? They don't overshoot coming from 500 miles!!

They come from everywhere from all distances Frank. Way back in the eighties I watched JJ(Dunn) Graham clock a bird from Rennes to be well in the result coming into the village from the North, clocked a 1st sect a winner from Ypres in a tough race again coming from the North. Would you let yer YBs out on a race day?

[frank-123]

They come from everywhere from all distances Frank. Way back in the eighties I watched JJ(Dunn) Graham clock a bird from Rennes to be well in the result coming into the village from the North, clocked a 1st sect a winner from Ypres in a tough race again coming from the North. Would you let yer YBs out on a race day?

 

I dont have any young birds but when i did i never let any out on a Saturday.

 

[dal2]

I dont have any young birds but when i did i never let any out on a Saturday.

For the same reason as ye wouldnae let yer birds(if ye had any) up for a toss KNOWING there would be a chance they would run into something coming the opposite way?

[frank-123]

For the same reason as ye wouldnae let yer birds(if ye had any) up for a toss KNOWING there would be a chance they would run into something coming the opposite way?

 

 

I used to let my young birds out and two lofts across the road had some big batches out could count on one hand how many times my birds went in there loft or there birds never went in mine. Great training if they join another batch and then have to break out the batch and head for home.

 

Pigeons have more intelligence than you think!!

 

Clashing in my opinion is a myth but guess plenty will have a different opinion.

[THE FIFER]

a very good thread with some interesting views,