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Posted (edited)

French Water

 

See link which I hope is attached, so much for French water being contaminated and unsafe for racing pigeons to drink, more inaccurate and unsubstantiated information.

 

Davie

 

again only selected reading, they might have improved but as we have had loads of losses it was not always the case

and if the french prefer to buy water who am I TO DISAGREE WITH

 

http://www.french-pr...h/water_france/

Edited by bigda
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Posted

again only selected reading, they might have improved but as we have had loads of losses it was not always the case

and if the french prefer to buy water who am I TO DISAGREE WITH

 

http://www.french-pr...h/water_france/

Danny , no selective reading from me, you have shot yourself in the foot with this link, this info is at least 5 years old and you should also read the entire script of your own link which states that several Nobel prize laureate scientists had stated that the report was nonsense and that the author was an imposter, it also states that 99% of French water is now compliant with European standards

Posted

Danny , no selective reading from me, you have shot yourself in the foot with this link, this info is at least 5 years old and you should also read the entire script of your own link which states that several Nobel prize laureate scientists had stated that the report was nonsense and that the author was an imposter, it also states that 99% of French water is now compliant with European standards

 

they still prefer to buy bottled water, and why would the French government just like ours say anything different

i will put up a link that you knew nothing about only a mile away from your house in your own camp about how good water is, and it never made the loacal papers

 

Posted (edited)

this happened not 2 mile from you also and not even your advertiser printed it or the local rags so dont say water is safe

http://www.deadlinen...-sludge-swamps/

and they still allowed the kids to swim is Strathclyde park not one chirp was mentioned about this all nice and quiet like

Edited by bigda
Posted

Well lads I am writing this morning to thank all who have taken an interest in first of all my letters to the BHW and later to this forum where we have had plenty to say about the way we transport our pigeons to the race points. I think we can be sure that there are people who are happy with the arrangements in their area and those who are suspicious as to whether we are doing things in the best way. There are many things we should look at critically and try to improve and I am sure that we need to continually keep a check on things like cleanliness and the condition of the exhausts on the vehicle as an example.

I have no more to say right now although I have plenty to do. I will measure things like the frequency of watering, temperature, humidity and the condition of both the vehicle and the water it carries. I am not concerned about the dissimilar metals in the construction of the water containers but am very concerned with the cleanliness of the water due to the possibility of bacterial contamination being allowed to build up over time.

Later I will want to look at the arrangements made at the liberation points to avoid clashing so that we can give the birds a better chance to head in the right direction when they start their journey home. If we can be sure that the pigeons are in the best possible condition when they leave the transporter there should be no reason why they can't orientate and head for home without a problem. To make this an even better possibility I think that arrangements must be made to avoid clashing especially when we are dealing with youngsters. I hope we will all learn something about this and finish up with better races.

After that I want to look at the areas where peregrine falcons are attacking the pigeons in the greatest numbers to see if there is any way we can reduce their affects on the pigeons. My opinion is that if people like us just leave these things to others we are wrong. We race our pigeons and place them into the custody of others to manage them for us but as with our children we should follow up and monitor what is happening. To do otherwise would, in my opinion be irresponsible.

Thanks again

Owen

Posted

well said owen i would agree 100 percent with the last part being of most importance imo but all valid points m8 all the best in your venture and look forward to the results

ps would just like to add i stoped useing wood shavings in my baskets years ago for my health but also because it clogged up the basket drinkers within 20 mins when i was trying to teach the youngbirds to drink from them the samething must be happening in races that use shavings in there baskets just a wee something else that should be looked at m8 with easy bed its no where near as bad

Posted

Hey Chad good to see you back, been reading some of your posts on another thread and see that a month in the cooler hasn't changed you much. Couldn't agree with you more on the above I'm sure pigeons need to be exposed to low levels of organisms in order to build their immune system and natural immunity, I think it's a case of finding a balance between to clean ( sterile ) and too dirty ( filthy ) but don't think it's anything to do with French water.

 

The pigeons immunity should be built up by the fancier, at home but the transportation should be as sterile and well presented as possible imo.The fancy should be portrayed to the public in the best possible way and that isnt possible if using shabby, unhygienic transporters.

Posted

The pigeons immunity should be built up by the fancier, at home but the transportation should be as sterile and well presented as possible imo.The fancy should be portrayed to the public in the best possible way and that isnt possible if using shabby, unhygienic transporters.

Del, agree with this 100%

Posted

All i can say on the transporte issue is !!!! ive had stinkers and lost loads on geraldies over the years and equaly had stinkers and bad races on old transporter in wicker too. On that note ive had great races on booth aswell . Not sure its down much to the transporter in most cases but down to how good and up for the job your birds are aswell and what work you have put in .

 

How many times do you hear guys saying oh i got a stinker with yb on this or that transporter only to find out they aint trained there birds basket trained them to eat and drink etc , always loads looking for exscuse that aint put in the work .

Posted

All i can say on the transporte issue is !!!! ive had stinkers and lost loads on geraldies over the years and equaly had stinkers and bad races on old transporter in wicker too. On that note ive had great races on booth aswell . Not sure its down much to the transporter in most cases but down to how good and up for the job your birds are aswell and what work you have put in .

 

How many times do you hear guys saying oh i got a stinker with yb on this or that transporter only to find out they aint trained there birds basket trained them to eat and drink etc , always loads looking for exscuse that aint put in the work .

very true rab

Posted

stb

my idea when I started on this path of investigating two things, the view of transporters by the people who use them on one hand and the actual conditions on some of them on the other. I believe that we can take the uncertainty out of the transport conditions and probably arrive at a code of practice for those who operate them on our behalf. The people who run the transporters on our behalf must vary in their management of the pigeons when they are in transit and some must be better than others which will have a marked affect on the results.

I think we are all aware that there will be other factors involved which can have a detrimental effect on returns and the condition of the birds on their return. This whole debate was about the conditions under which we transport pigeons to race points. As time goes on we will undoubtedly discover other areas that will need to be examined and changed for the better but are not connected to the transport facilities. In cases like that it is unlikely that the type of transporter would have much influence over the result so it wouldn't matter if the vehicle was the old fashioned type or the modern super duper type. In my opinion due to the fact that there are so many things that influence the result we have not known where to look for the reasons why things have gone wrong.

As some have pointed out we know that people are sending untrained pigeons to races which confuses the issue. Then there are the people who breed from anything that happens to be in their loft in the mistaken belief that the birds might win something which again clouds the issue. Sick pigeons can be part of the convoy because as we all know people have them in their loft and will send them probably through ignorance. Then of course we have our old favourites, falcons and clashing both of which can be devastating. Although I am sure that there should be much better management of the liberations to reduce the clashing down to a very small issue. Falcons of course are another matter altogether.

I am old enough to remember the pigeons traveling by rail. In my memory that must have been ideal from the pigeons' point of view. No exhaust gases, roomy panniers, water always available on three sides of the panniers and plenty of rest before liberations. There may have been an issue with wires in some places but liberations usually went smoothly then. From time to time there would be a bad race but by and large things went well for the vast majority of the time.

It could be an idea to compare the modern methods of transport with the way it was done when the railway was in use.

Owen

Posted

Owen I came to the conclusion regarding transporters versus the railways many years ago only through our transporter's ability to hold 6,000 birds when 6,500 were sent resulting in 20 baskets being transported in a cattle float. Prior to liberation the 20 baskets were offloaded and laid out 2 high with the result they were able to see the sun this was the same with rail transport. Baskets laid out in such a fashion meant the entire top layer could orientate themselves before release and where the winners came from according to our convoyer who took note which club baskets were on the top layer. Many transporters to my mind are too enclosed and sun light cannot penetrate through to the birds resulting in birds having to orientate after liberation. A perfect example of this is to transport your birds in the boot of your car and give them insufficient time in the sun and you will have a bad toss even if you have been at the same site with them 20 times before.

Posted

Owen I came to the conclusion regarding transporters versus the railways many years ago only through our transporter's ability to hold 6,000 birds when 6,500 were sent resulting in 20 baskets being transported in a cattle float. Prior to liberation the 20 baskets were offloaded and laid out 2 high with the result they were able to see the sun this was the same with rail transport. Baskets laid out in such a fashion meant the entire top layer could orientate themselves before release and where the winners came from according to our convoyer who took note which club baskets were on the top layer. Many transporters to my mind are too enclosed and sun light cannot penetrate through to the birds resulting in birds having to orientate after liberation. [b]A perfect example of this is to transport your birds in the boot of your car and give them insufficient time in the sun and you will have a bad toss even if you have been at the same site with them 20 times before.

[/b]

 

Disagree here,when training, I stop my van, open the back doors and lib immediately, from the back of the van, not outside. ( although not the first couple of tosses with ybs )The only thing they do differently is orientate for a couple of minutes whilst in the air and this lets me get a head start on them on the race to the loft.

Guest chad3646
Posted

Disagree here,when training, I stop my van, open the back doors and lib immediately, from the back of the van, not outside. ( although not the first couple of tosses with ybs )The only thing they do differently is orientate for a couple of minutes whilst in the air and this lets me get a head start on them on the race to the loft.

 

 

i may be wrong delboy but i was allways told by the high headyin to let them settle first then let them go

Posted

Have trained like a madman over the years and stop the vehicle birds out and away as quickly as possible! Have tried all the usual sitting the birds outside for a wee look before,Have however over the last few years used the same spot which when liberated the birds mostly head home very quickly with no hanging about which can be helpfull against raptor strikes. :partick-thistle-Crest:

Posted

We tend to just arrive at let them go also, but with a large team of birds we will release them individually in say three baskets, and the first batch usually take the longest to clear with the last clearing very quickly.

If you leave them yes they will clear quicker, but an extra 5 minutes flying around the lib site is extra training and learning them to orientate and it makes no difference when it comes to a Saturday.

Each to their own.

Can I add that I expect the transporter to be sitting settling the birds as this is a large liberation far from home and not a training toss.

Guest chad3646
Posted

Have trained like a madman over the years and stop the vehicle birds out and away as quickly as possible! Have tried all the usual sitting the birds outside for a wee look before,Have however over the last few years used the same spot which when liberated the birds mostly head home very quickly with no hanging about which can be helpfull against raptor strikes. :partick-thistle-Crest:

 

 

alex i was in a car one day with a prominent national man going to the dunbar area, he said to me give us that carrying box over he took the pigeon out and through it out the window and the car was moving at the time gospel

Posted

i may be wrong delboy but i was allways told by the high headyin to let them settle first then let them go

 

I was told the same years ago but im afraid things are moving on now and we understand a lot more.

Posted

Disagree here,when training, I stop my van, open the back doors and lib immediately, from the back of the van, not outside. ( although not the first couple of tosses with ybs )The only thing they do differently is orientate for a couple of minutes whilst in the air and this lets me get a head start on them on the race to the loft.

 

was always told the quicker they get in the air the quicker they can orientate :001:

Posted

Have trained like a madman over the years and stop the vehicle birds out and away as quickly as possible! Have tried all the usual sitting the birds outside for a wee look before,Have however over the last few years used the same spot which when liberated the birds mostly head home very quickly with no hanging about which can be helpfull against raptor strikes. :partick-thistle-Crest:

Same here,stop the car and out they go.

Posted

Have trained like a madman over the years and stop the vehicle birds out and away as quickly as possible! Have tried all the usual sitting the birds outside for a wee look before,Have however over the last few years used the same spot which when liberated the birds mostly head home very quickly with no hanging about which can be helpfull against raptor strikes. :partick-thistle-Crest:

 

 

I do the same I belive they either know there way home or they don't we can only help them by making them fit the less they circle the less chance bop will hit them bop don't like hitting a batch of birds doing 50 or 60 mph hedge hoping

 

Birds circleing are like a magnet to bop

Posted

I think a lot depends on what you want to achieve by training. I only go to two liberation points, 6miles and 10miles, and always stand the birds before I release them because as has been said they clear quicker that way. In this area there are always a lot of falcons hanging about and road training reduces the losses.

I win a lot of sprit races these days so I want my birds to be totally familiar with the last 10 miles. So I train from the same spot repeatedly so that they take a direct route home and learn to fly at speed. At the home end I want the birds to trap without circling and drop straight in without wasting time which helps them win on a Saturday.

Like most people I like to see my birds exercising but to be honest I have come to the conclusion that there is no benefit in it when it comes to winning races. OK it is fine early in the year to start them off after a winter of lazing about in the loft but I would rather not expose them to the falcons by having them flying up and down this valley.

Posted

I do the same I belive they either know there way home or they don't we can only help them by making them fit the less they circle the less chance bop will hit them bop don't like hitting a batch of birds doing 50 or 60 mph hedge hoping

 

Birds circleing are like a magnet to bop

bang on jam the longer they circle the sooner the hawk gets to them m8 imo 5 or 10 mins to get there bearings and they should clear in seconds when they dont its cause they see somthing

Guest chad3646
Posted

has any of use lanarkshire pigeon men seen the guy letting of the rockets before he liberates his pigeons?

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