Roland

True .... The lofts look good too

Very true and again realistic. Remember birds held over for quite a few days ... Especially the NRCC if any threat of not being a westerly wind. An absolute bonus Peter and to really bring a pigeon on song they used to keep in a basket back home for at least 2-3 days. Brought condition on a treat ... still does of course. Mind the main and big gripe is of course that the Widowerhood's fear that their' birds will lose a little motivation.

Of course! One must always stick to what works for them. For you, Blue Bar, $11 is well worth it for peace of mind alone ... and the bonus of a betterment of your' loft.

walterboswell59Â good post. Like peter Pandy's post ditto. I am inundated with moths and midges every year in the loft BUT have never ever experienced YBS nor do I spray willy nilly so do not believe its an insect borne disease, Sorry but I cannot help with your problems other than I know that fanciers who DO NOT Vaccinate have contracted it every year till they Vaccinated youngster when leaving the nest as I told them. FACTS... But don't know what vaccination he is on about? I vac per rule regards Parvo... full stop. I have moths etc. etc. like wise. Loft's loft is full of spider's webs too. Why I am also blessed by the fact I have escaped this pest of YBS too... Often thought that once a bird had had YBS then it's youngsters should be immune against it .... But by the looks of the posts it seems that they aren't! Maybe one should look at the past / current level of incense breeding eh!

Thanks Fifer. We are all pleased I'd wager.

:emoticon-0127-lipssealed: Good, hardly use P.c. for sale. Please apply in confidence to Peter Pandy. Would consider P.X for some good stock birds :emoticon-0136-giggle:

Still slow ... a bit annoying, but

Ally, a man after me own heart. Peace and joy free in the country air eh! Often think this is the bonus of a happy life. Indeed also the moments to refresh and take the time and peace for any hardships thrown at us. Around the lakes, walking the woods amongst the Blue Bells. Nothing beats it ...

Yep it's slow.

Well done, good to see.

All's well that ends well... hopefully. Again just shows how a controversy can arise from genuine folks. Pays never to be too quick to tar a brush eh! JMO

Good to hear. I wish you every happiness.

He did a bit more that I thought ... Well done. Thought he'd win on points, nigh did. I think that fight 'In the Trenches' was against - personally - a well and tested great... a little past his best. A glorified journey man lol. So augers well now. The Fury's aren't in his class now. Nor Hayes and co. Needs a little more time and experience then a great mouth watering match against Wilder. Now that will be the best against the best ... Well done Joshua, you made us proud. Will there be another against Klitso? Or even the other brother? He did a bit more that I thought ... Well done. Thought he'd win on points, nigh did. I think that fight 'In the Trenches' was against - personally - a well and tested great... a little past his best. A glorified journey man lol. So augers well now. The Fury's aren't in his class now. Nor Hayes and co. Needs a little more time and experience then a great mouth watering match against Wilder. Now that will be the best against the best ... Well done Joshua, you made us proud. Will there be another against Klitso? Or even the other brother?

The reality, sadness in reality, is that Joshua gets the chance all ... It shows the lack of competition, and how much it has down spiralled in the last 10 - 20 years. Yes Joshua is a class in the making, no two ways about that. Further it's not his fault. He can only fight the standard (In his class) offered. The good part is win or lose he will be a wealthy man, and deservedly so. However at this stage of his progress, in times shortly past it wouldn't even have entered his, or the management's' head to take this fight. Both the Brothers 10myears back would have been classes above him. Ok Klitso is pushing 42, and well past his best, but that isn't Joshua's fault! I think it will go the distance and I lean towards Joshua (Hopefully) in taking the fight. Having said that he needs to stay away from Doutnay Wilder for the present. As for either Fury's he would be too good in the next 12 months. In the mean time a couple of good Journey men will suffice. These are the opponents that will show a true Assessment of his' worth. Two years time he will be at his peak, then maybe Wilder for the undisputed titles. Let's hope so eh!

Yep John, none so blind THAT won't see eh! How true in your case. What is really amazing, is the fact that you decry what was the norm. Results were good and cost effective... And now needed ... Can't say you live in the past, because that WAS the actual way for 90% of pigeon fanciers. The majority didn't or could afford train tossing their birds. But then you daren't try it, so every one else who do it, have great results, are what? People get comfortable with habit, whether any good, or good for one. Plus they don't like change. So why are you against something that you know naff all about! Why decry those doing something that IS needed with great result. I mean just what is your problem? Don't say because you don't agree that NO ONE else should please, there's a good boy.

Any way Jakie, I feel you and I can have closure. Possibly agree to disagree. Think the saying is 'Being attached becomes the habit'. And very few like change, or willing to accept change graciously lol Take care mate.

Well seems to me that you are laying a unfounded slight on Egoism. Why not let your birds fly hours around the loft daily. Go through the mating cycle. They will learned and are extremely content and happy and healthy and fit. Then on Wed/ Night or Thursday Morning leave them in a basket, preferable away from the loft. Feed and water them in the basket and take to the club from there. Then you will see great conditioned pigeons, ful of zest and vigour, wanting home, their perch or nest box.

Of course and Exactly Jakie. I have a small team. I certainly don't, let alone like, loosing any of them. I love my pigeons. I mean really love them. I am just happy watching them piddling about, picking up, roof hoping. Whether today or Xmas day. They at my friends. I give them a great hotel to live in. Good feed and clean fresh water .. OK they still drink out of puddles etc. Race days I never bother about winning. Truthfully have never and couldn't give a toss ... It's seeing them home that really matters to me. HONEST! THEN I have many phoning - which annoys me as I may well be waiting for others to home... Yes they use me as a yard stick... Days of inviting me to put a fiver on the 'Winner' at the distance no longer happen ... they still do BUT make sure I'm not invited lol. I get upset when one is late, let alone lost. BUT I'm no fool... Wife says why spend nigh £5000 building a loft if I'm not bothering to race! Simple I LOVE my birds. However I please her and the Club's banter, same old reminiscent etc. Have a pint and see who is bragging or tell the biggest pork pies lol. I know, from experience, from doing it, having too when no money, that listening to some 'Ole Timers' that it was a well tried and tested practice. Many had to. Some stated it was the Birds and not me! Well of course it was, is! Many spouted rubbish like their birds showed mine the way home! Some stated it was fair that they trained their' bird religiously and all I did was get them loft fit to beat them! So I maybe have always been blessed with having birds as such ... Or was it, is it that I did / do it whereas they don't, wouldn't etc.?

No problem with that Steve. None whatsoever. However to boo - hoo, decry a practice, or system, etc. etc (In any walk of life) without having an experience - whatever, whether Thiers's or others without the knowledge is ignorance. That is not to state that they are in a lack of ability to read and write. I'm sure they are. Nor in the state of being illiterate; lack of any or enough education. etc. But in Ignorance due to a lack of knowledge. I feel I am using the word ignorant as an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware, or as often used, to describe individuals who deliberately ignores or disregard important information or facts. So I feel, respectfully that I have made a very valid point in this regards.

I think John, that you, and jakie, are guilty of doing exactly what you are spouting against what decent fanciers are doing. Spouting bias and innate stupidity of the highest. With out an inkling or what you are surmising, let alone understand! If you haven't tried, done, let alone listen and understood... I think 'Best be quiet and stop making yourself look silly' EH! The SIMPLE FACT is AND HAS and ARE being proved to be true ... whether you are able, or intelligent enough to understand! Indeed it seem that it's you that is spouting from the loony bin. I, like most, love their' pigeons. FACT! Hence the last thing that I or they, would ever do is harm them, let alone ask of them to do that they can't, nor couldn't achieve! One must ask one self, if this IS the state of the looney bin you attend ARE we, Is Joe public wasting money trying to heal you lol. As for laziness, get real. In fact just what the dickens made you thing of such stupidity? Another amazing whim of incredulous cods wallop eh! Oh sorry an inmate said so lol.

You know, one thing for certain is THAT B.O.P. / Raptures are devastating our sport. I see here training is a scary Hazard. We all know that something has to be done, changed. Yet so many continue to Boo - Hoo those that do, and try to solve a problem. Our governing bodies can't - The RSPB has too much influence and is too strong ... For whatever reasons the government can't or won't be interested. Now such as Andy, has shown another way forward perhaps. Such as Peter Pandy and me, and a few others etc. have had success from so - called lack of training. Once a pigeon has some experience to satisfy the fancier--- the sooner the better, then why not train via feed alone. Out only on race days if not racing. Pigeons were hardly ever trained via the masses back a while. They became loft fit and then Races for certain Races was the norm. Great successes and fewer losses. Whether we like it or not, we need to think seriously in this regard I believe.

Remember Bilco writing up that when he moved house his broken birds, and then his youngster, were hitting wires around the house. A fancier told him that the youngsters would breed youngster to know where the wires were NOW that they had learn. Said from the second generation onwards he never had another problem.

True John / Tony. Also Rape seeds, plus causes bad sneezing then etc. Needs a little which is fresh and quickly ate.

Well I, and Joyce are away next week down Kent. Rochester is the main stay. Any loft I could visit for a cuppa and what not for a short (Joyce says Very Short lol) visit may be possible. Always trying to learn lol.