Roland

I remember the theory about following the motor ways too lol. Mind never explained what they did where there isn't any Motor ways OR before there were any motor ways, lol :emoticon-0127-lipssealed:

Well won't --- till later, and then it will be tossed a couple or so before hand. You see, I have broken some pigeons in as told before.  I bought these as previously mentioned at a sale... One took 3 times to break in, a nice two year old now. – I let out every three days to break a pigeon in. This one went A.W.O.L. for about three weeks first time out.  I retrieved it and 3 days later I let him out again. I fetched it back. 3 days later let out and as thought, it stayed. Now it is flying well and coming into loft fitness.  Also now mated it is busy driving and hence the walking and taking off has improved it's fitness. Now it leaves the others when circling and zooms back into the loft. Then spends time collecting twigs and tobacco stalks I have left in the garden. It is keen and concentrating on it's natural breeding cycle.   Hasn't been in a basket yet. Now I know / feel that if I sent it to a race this week – end it would be there about. No two ways about that... I'd wager probably in top batch home. But wouldn't send, as I fear the wind will be in the East. So will wait per usual for 2nd week in May before going to the club even. Was told by good fanciers in early days 'If you must send to the early races just send a couple of old experienced war horses, just to be in the averages'. Then told 'Too many good pigeons have been lost trying for the 'Averages'. Sending once too often to win if having a chance'. So I never have. Yes I have won the Scottish averages, and nigh the Feds Gold cup... but the inland / combine ones etc. no! Now it has experience. Proved it has intelligence and a homing ability. Has gleaned where home is from just flying around. It is pretty fit ... so why shouldn't it show up? Is there any thing I can teach it? Maybe soon when on big a youngster and driving...!

Some old timers used to say 'Just send the 10 miles up the road'. Old hat. The pigeons are showing you, speaking to you so to speak. Saying were aren't right. Could very well be toxins in the blood and REST is what they are after. If that is the case then the last thing that they need is exercise. JMO and experience.

Jakie I take it, and hence am mindful that you may be young and a novice. Simple facts of life shows every day that because you don't believe, or can't get your head around something THAT doesn't mean what ever you may, or may not think is right. As for the insults, they are uncalled for and simply not merited. I feel, personally, right or wrong, that I have taken my share of ridicule, and dished some out. But nothing childish or personal. May I suggest that many fanciers of long serving, some on here! Yes ones experienced and whom love their' birds very much, know and have experienced much sorrow. Also very much pleasure, happiness in this game. But one thing for certain is that they don't stoop to insults if they don't agree with another's thesis or idea. Because the simple fact is that they know what might not work for them may certainly work for others. Also never to under estimate a pigeon and it's ability. Many have trained 3 miles at a time and lose some, or very many!... indeed in training alone in recent times losses have been horrendous, whether trained even when carefully with utmost patience has been the way. Ricky Mardis - as I have posted sometime once NEVER trained. Didn't even let his birds out except on race days if not raced. HIS results were astounding. Mind he also has ventured into many other systems with great results. Fancier or birds? or both?! Now I'm not fit to even handle his birds, like so many others... even great fanciers. So I humblely suggest watch, see and learn ... if not sure just ask on here! Remember the wise old Owl eh! I wish you every success whatever way you attain it. Indeed we would all be please as and when you have good results. P.s. I've packed up smoking as it made the pigeons cough ... Mind I like a tad of Whiskey if you can sort some out for me lol.

Who does, let alone can train a pigeon? Simple answer is NO ONE! We can feed as we believe is best and in their interests. Watch and play around with the breeding cycle. Even distort their' very nature to some extent. We strive to motivate them 'HOW'? in it's self is a myth! Only thing that they fly home to is territory. The perch or nest box. Widowerhoods are happy with ANY hen before or after a race. A breaking point gets fair play because when it is a Good Un' it come from... between etc. .... NOTHEING TO DO with the wind the eh! Gosh would fancier be peeved if they actually went to the breaking point every week regardless of the liberation point or Wind eh! Simply and firstly we have no idea whatsoever how they home. So that can't be taught, let alone shown or trained. Loft fitness, mentally and healthy, is all we can strive to pertain too... then it is beyond our ability or power or knowledge.

Was a Lad in Birmingham. Who had a stray come onto his dad's barn - they wasn't fanciers. He fed it and noticed the lovely bright colours and shine on it's neck. He, for want of a better word, fell in love with it. He knew a lad mate kept pigeons. So he went and saw the loft etc. Any way he pestered his parents for a mate for it. The pigeon pair ... After a while he was allowed to have a mate for it. Kept a in his old rabbit hutch. Like countless others did and still do... A pair of youngsters were bred ... and he was allowed to join a club... Then he came unstuck because he couldn't house any more...No permission for a loft or more orange boxes. So he sent the youngsters to a race - first time ever! He became the only person I know of that won, not only club and fed, BUT a NATIONAL first race ever etc. Well documented in the BHW and Pictorial not so long ago. I have a step son who rather amused me, and annoyed me. When 20 He would look at a dinner / tea and ask - if unfamiliar with it- what it was. Then untried stated 'I don't like it'. and wouldn't even try or taste it! But knew he didn't like it! So I often fed him Bratwurst with his chips etc. He thoroughly enjoyed them. In fact would ask and look forward to them. I told the white lie as how I knew the manager of McDonalds and he let me buy these sausages. He like McDonalds. One day, after about six months he was told, via the wife, that they were really Bratwusts from Aldi's. He stated if he had known that he would never have eaten them ... as he didn't like them... He has never eaten them since either. One man's meat eh! Pigeons show us some thing new so very often. Some fanciers are particular to a fault and treat their birds fantastic. To a T Best books and video's and great friends to good flyers. Couldn't fault them in the very least or slight. Every year they take on board others inputs. Then ever season do just the same ... Hold the foot of the result list up. A national flyer, he has won several Nationals both North and South and is a house hold name - and a good friend of mine. Like his mate Dave. So this National winner grew up with Dave. they live not 2 miles away from each other. Same year and class in school and are best of friends... Indeed best man at wedding etc. So this national winner spends a lot of time and effort with Dave. Dave has and flies the same birds. Has the very best lent of given or bred for him EVERY YEAR! Dave has a fantastic brick loft like a two story house. This National winner says Dave has never took a card even as far as he can recall, let alone a win in 50 years ... and never will. He listens and takes on board, and has great respect for the National winner ... But every season does just as he has done for the last 50 years.

Well Andy you proved a lot UPFRONT. Please for you and the result. (I'm glad you haven't been hung in public lol) We all know, or should that pigeons are well capable of such. Doubters? Well maybe they doubt their own birds, or more so their own ability. A pigeon mentally and physically fit are well capable. Indeed like many other species. Who trains the Monarch Moth, the Warbler, the swifts and swallows? How can a Albatross - in tests fly 3000 miles straight of to the home. Who has, or doesn't know of untrained pigeons prisoners that have escaped, whether first time out or not going straight home. Maybe some are sic that they spend time and money training and other just don't and beat them? My birds are coming into form, naturally. After my week away next week, many will get their chance to show that they have the ability to home. Now some / have had a once in the basket experience, between 150 and 200 miles. REST ASSURED I wouldn't dream of send any bird that wasn't healthy and loft fit. Yes I will admit most will be tossed a few short ones. ... If me health holds up and I am good. Now if a pigeon circle averages just 440 yards, which they certainly do at least, 4 times round is a mile! How many miles do yours do as such? The lifting off and walking (Driving) are the best things that they do. When clapping off, necks arched and out stretch and soaring around with zest ... Then the pigeon I believe, most are ready for racing. Good habits learned with then come to the fore. JMO

Well done. You know, if one only then sends them to the races, they rest more and stay fresher. they prove whether they have homing ability in the loft. then it is really just a case of miles under wings that count. Whetehr up the road, or around the loft - Widowerhoods seldom get trained. Indeed Gary Edmunds- the best fancier I have ever met - left his cock birds LAZ in the garden. On the lawn for yonks, wings out stretched and you had to step over them. Race days they would knock your head of in the way to get in the loft. Pigeons, like in all sport participates, only have super form for a few weeks. Athletes a couple then come down and then bring their' fitness up to 100% for chosen races. - Pigeons 7 weeks! No good training like the clappers then fading a week before the Olympics now is it. YOU HAVE ALL heard the of the boxer who ' left it in the gym'. Over trained and ... Rest is also all important. I know a very good Welsh flyer - on here - that trains - Like so many other have and do with great success - 10 mile every morning be fore feeding in. Some never once racing starts. Pigeons become Loft fit, then progress to race fitness ... some, but very few, excel most weeks! A few on the trot eh!

I think Delboy you are looking for reasons / excuses of why if successful. I'm 12 - 20 miles of the beaten drag in my Club ... Still first time in basket as late bred (Flown obviously in O/B) or yearlings. I'd only get beat by the odd yard via those send in the main ... 3 lofts alone in a square 100 yards send 150 to 200 birds alone. So, for me, that drag scenario is blown out the water.

As often posted. When first starting up, for 4 years I never tossed youngsters... Gosh! When winning etc. club members made all sort of excuses ... the best one being My birds showed yours the way home'! Couldn't answer though 'How come mine are 5 or ten minutes home before yours'? Very many never ever trained birds back and in the 50's 60's. hey couldn't afford the 2/- 3/6 train fares. But they flew the programs both old birds and y/b's alike every season. Also as old birds, teams of 12 racers or so gad to use the races for the 'Race they were really interested in winning. Most the long distance. Hence 'Berwick for Lerwick' etc. AND MOST had to remove birds AS SEASON'S END to make room for the youngsters wanting a nest box! No one didn't add more nest boxes, but cut down on birds. Fanciers have a lot to be held up for ... Not least in keep comparing birds and animals as to what human's would want or accept. Gosh we can't get our heads around how they home. They have proved many 'Firm adages are false and rubbish. NOT least the 'Breaking point farce! Only thing we need to know, in all honesty is 'Only healthy and fit birds WIN ...! Many train around the clock. Indeed far more - me included if I need to train, send them any where I happen to be going!

Couldn't agree more. Have over the last two seasons sent last bred and yearlings first time in basket 150 - or more miles in race .... Didn't actually win .... but were very well placed and above the vast majority.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v509/n7500/full/nature13290.html

So are we saying then that when the loft is closed up one must still be able to clock a bird? Was a great debate by using the word Confine, confines etc. Confines meaning an area, within the loft... Loft confines etc. etc. Hence these new wording to try and make sense and easily understood lol. Surely one doesn't need to clock a pigeon in when the loft is shut up ... Having said that if one wants to place a pad on a chimney or roof etc. so be it lol

That's the one Mick. Thanks for the clarification.

Read on R.P.R.A that as long as the loft / birds are trapped in ONCE the trap door is closed, then that is all that is required. I presume that means that the bob wires traps the birds once entered... and of course gone through. Like wise with a wooden slant trapping. As for open door and such like, that would also means once shut the birds are trapped! Be interesting how others may interprets this.

Quote 'Scotland would be “most welcome“ to join the EU if it voted for independence, according to a group of 50 politicians. The open letter, signed by 26 MEPs and members of national and regional parliaments in Germany, Ireland, Greece, Spain and Belgium, declared that there was a “tremendous amount of goodwill from across the continent towards Scotland’s European aspirationsâ€. etc. etc. Cool that!... would that mean THE UK would get great price reduction from the stupid EU leaving quotes lol :emoticon-0137-clapping:

Not noticed any yet ... Maybe Scotland is more pleasing to them at the moment lol

Yep bet Fionavon a few bob before the day. Offered at 2000 to one even. Thought 'It keeps going out ... I'll let it roll' lol. Put a £1 on for my mate too. Any way the missis wanted a bet and looking at the bets wanted a £1 roll up on first four. Barmy or what! I said s much but promised to put it on ... But never bothered etc. They came in in that order! 1st | West Tip | Richard Dunwoody 15/2 2nd | Young Driver | Chris Grant | 66/1 3rd | Classified | 23/1 4th | Mr Snugfit | 13/2 F I had to look it up again lol. I went home full of smiles and sh*t faced beaming for her good and great fortune as I handed over £12 56p.... Mind I was dancing on my feet for weeks as she was very sceptcal regards it only paying such a small amount.

Was, and is done in Canada and many other places. Seems that it has good effects and returns. You know, We see posts / articles in the R.P. and BHW saying how one site is very badly affected regards the Percy etc. Yep that they line up on a Saturday and wait for the liberations each week FOR THEIR breakfast ... and even take their youngsters along for practise in killing the birds.. Some of us put if for a different lib site at the club / Feds etc. First crap scenario is 'May as well stay there ... the Percy's are every where'! Yep on way home etc. etc. they may bump into a few... But them lot aren't waiting at the Lib site each week! Also I don't know regards the West coast of Scotland, but surely a constant change has to be of some good surely. Out side of those frightened of given a club mate a little help and lee way. Yep that IS the main reason - I believe - why some out vote it each year! JMO.

Personally I, as many will have read such posts via me, believe that incest breeding has hammer the immunities and constitution. Whilst many are only to happy to BUY such birds and then carry on doing as such, then this problem will only get worse. Indeed if very many stopped and thought about 'Incest Breeding' AND why it is done, then that alone would curb - in my view - tremendously our plight. Inbred should only be done once, at most and if at all! Yeah we see off spring winning 'Paper Bag' races.... The simple fact and reality, regardless for whatever reason one chooses not to believe is the fact that past pigeons were far superior to those to day in constitution and immunity. Further I believe that Ian's post spouts a lot of truth ... plus I think many of us ought to look in the mirror for answers. Too many are only too happy to knock what they don't like or can accept. That is their choice, but that in it's self doesn't give them to right to knock willy - nilly what they don't like ... because, mainly it doesn't suit them.

There are some confirmed cases from Germany where yb's died as a result of toxic vapors emanating from paper nest bowls. Many of you are aware that similar events were previously confirmed due to nest pads.

Might also mention, as quoted via atop Avian vet (Now sadly retired) Dropping WON'T show up salmonella. Now many may spout up here and say 'Poppy Cock' etc. But then maybe they should think on just who and what vet says other wise. All I know further, having spoke to some vets, not many have an inkling regards Avian and how to find and treat But MOST know how to spin a yarn and take your money lol. JMO

Ditto. I also have pull out boards beneath the Aviary a foot below. Easy cleaning and not on garden floor.

The one I attended was at Burtain Latimer (Northants England) on behalf of Gary Jones.

Any way as said earlier, and trying lol, I am finished posting on this topic. Plus also I am not really interested. Facts and figures vary depending on what side / interests one has to make I guess. Personally I like it just as it it ... and if it means putting a few quiddies into the Scots Pots, so what, Happy to do so.