Roland

Experts have called for tougher controls on products claiming to contain 'friendly' bacteria purported to promote good health. Eating live bacteria can benefit people with certain illnesses, clinical trials have shown. But what about people who are already healthy? Should everybody be dashing down to the local supermarket to buy a drink or yoghurt packed full of 'friendly bacteria' in the chance they may get sick if they do not? The use of foods containing bacteria - probiotics - dates back thousands of years. It is reported that people in Biblical times drank sour milk to combat problems in the gut. The idea is by constantly topping up the bacteria in your body you're maintaining well-being. Dr Simon Cutting from the Royal Holloway, University of London In recent years, a number of food products have been hitting the supermarket shelves and bombarding our TV screens. The annual probiotic market is now worth an estimated £135 million in the UK alone. There are two ways a probiotic can be classified. Dr Simon Cutting, a reader in molecular microbiology at the School of Biological Sciences, Royal Holloway, University of London, explained: "One is a novel food - that's when you buy things from the supermarket. The other type is what is classified as a drug. "When you have a drug, that means you have specific claims which have to be supported by clinical trials. You can't just say it will make you better - you have got to say specifically what it is. "With novel foods you don't. So novel food is how probiotics are being sold at the moment in the UK." He is working with a pharmaceutical company to develop a probiotic that can be classified as a drug. Good plants Dr Cutting said: "The idea is by constantly topping up the bacteria in your body you're maintaining well-being." Having a balance of "friendly bacteria" is thought to stop harmful bacteria taking a hold and causing disease, much like having a garden filled with good plants rather than weeds. To do this, probiotic bacterial strains must be alive and be deliverable to the gut. That is they must survive gastric and bile acid and digestive enzymes during the gastrointestinal transit until they reach the gut. Dr Cutting said trying to prove the effects of probiotics in health scientifically was extremely complex. "If you were to perform a clinical trial how can you be sure that the same number reach the small intestine for every person? Some bacteria can be harmful to the gut "At every step it becomes more and more difficult. And of course with a novel food you don't have a clinical trial, so it's really done on hearsay." He doubted whether the novel food probiotics sold in the UK could work. "In England, all they are selling at the moment are lactobacillus products. "When you take a dose of lactobacillus, it's not clear how many of those can survive digestion. "But in Japan, for example, they are all based on spore-forming bacteria. "I have a lot of faith in the novel foods based on bacillus products simply because I understand that the spore can survive the stomach so when you take a dose it gets through the stomach into the small intestine." I'm not entirely sure there is any great benefit in young healthy people George MacFarlane, Professor of bacteriology, Dundee university Ask the Doctor: Probiotics Professor Jeremy Hamilton-Miller, from the Royal Free and University College Medical School, London, said: "Not all probiotics achieve the same results. "Despite claims on the label, some contain too small a quantity of bacteria to be beneficial, some contain probiotic cultures that do not survive the gastrointestinal passage, whilst others contain strains of bacteria that are not shown to benefit health." But the professor, who works with Seven Seas, which produces Multibionta, said many of the probiotic foods sold in the UK did promote good health. Constipation Professor Collette Short, director of science at Yakult, said there were studies showing that probiotics boost health. "There are scientific papers looking at people who are healthy and looking at different parameters, like mild conditions. Constipation would be one example. "The other area you have is in healthy children going to nursery school where they are in an environment that they are more exposed to bacteria and potentially picking up infections. "There are several studies that show that children on probiotics were better able to cope and had less use of antibiotics than other children." THE 'NORMAL' GUT BACTERIA Lactobacilli Streptococci Clostridia Coliform Bacteriodes She said it was difficult to prove probiotics' effects in healthy people because there were no obvious biomarkers to measure any improvements. Professor George MacFarlane, professor of bacteriology at the University of Dundee, said: "To be honest, I'm not entirely sure there is any great benefit in young healthy people. On the other hand they may not do any harm." He warned that some products being marketed as probiotics had no demonstrated probiotic properties whatsoever. "Some actually contain bacteria that are harmful. People have to be very careful if they are buying these things over the internet or even from a health food store." But he said this was not a problem with products from the big companies that had extensively tested their products over many years. Different things "Most of the things that are available now are well proven to be safe," Professor MacFarlane said. "One of the biggest problems with all the work on probiotics is that they are funded by companies that have their own products, which means they are asking the questions that companies want answered," he said. "The other thing is that different probiotics do different things. "For example, if you take a probiotic that is proinflammatory, so it stimulates your immune system, it could actually do damage if you had something like ulcerative colitis. "Ideally you would want to take something that reduces inflammatory processes. Many lactobacilli tend to be proinflammatory," he said. Wendy Johnson, food scientist and member of the Institute of Food Science and Technology said: "I think probiotic organisms have a place to play in promoting health but providing the evidence is difficult." seems like a very good vet told me ' If live... will be killed before it could do any good, if dead no good any way ... and he stated that Yogurts etc. are a waste of time. Still every one to their own eh!

14 to 16 days... into the Basket in their new home. Fed and watered, and then broke into their new loft by leting out but locked up to feed them. 21 Days on place in wire baskets and onto of the Conservatory... left to enter the basket. 28 days left loose and basket removed, allowed to go in and out of the loft as they please. 1st training tosses after they have finished ranging, then 10 days or so before their first race.

Very True again. At the turn of the last centuary, outside of the arstocracy there were only 8 millionaires in the whole of Enland. A live in Labourer's pay was £1 25p a YEAR! 25 bob ... if they took a florin (2/-) deposit at the hiring fare (In August usually) they never had to turn up and the florin not paid back ... if more then they had to turn up, or the money returned. THEN 50 years on a terrace house could be brought for £50... wages £3 or so per week. Late 50's earlu 60's £20 per week for some and houses could be purchased for £200 10 weeks wages, but was hard to find... then quickly £1000 mark. Now in relationship £200 week wages and hosuse not 8 - 10 times a weeks wages but 10 to 15 years wages plus interest. Was also taught woth was inrelation to hourly rate and what it could / would buy. Tis still the only realistic way to judge inflation inflation. Sure the last 10 years have been brill compared to the 20 years or so before... But that hourly rate still applies.

23 yb's 10 days before first race, chuck 35 miles South West. 2 days later 30 miles South East 2 days later 55 Miles North. Thursday before race 80 miles East. 22 left first race 122 mile, 17 together, other 5 with a stray within two minutes.Dominated the club. Last season dilly dalling, loses high and waste of petrol. Thois season, as before. And will swing them North and South races as normal. Doesn't matter a jot. Infact I beieve firmly that the last toss should be in the opposite direction. Seems to work, and sharpen the homing ability whatever that is. JMO and how I believe is best. fter they have finished ranging, and hanging around the loft, it is I believe the time to implant their contentment, love of the loft and them feeling safe and yet free. They are loft fit just taking off and landing, roof hopping - where and when see a far lot more than when they are in the loft. a few chucks and they are fresh and raring to go. They love flying... if not then your managerment needs looking at. And further I believe that the extra energy they produce when moulting counteracts any loss of feathers, indeed when on the 3rd flight they take all the beating. JMO

Agree entirely with your post Expat1. Similar to mine. and of course a great many. Some evacuee's were cared for, some hated, hence the 'Latch Street Kids' syndrome. Out 7 in morning, not allowed in before 7 at night. Bread a creul and washed, bed at 8 etc. We wasn't allowed to go school, and even had to literually fight as shops wouldn't serve us. Scared the locals would boycott them . The cooperative did, and the two faced gits still shopped thee because they wanted their dividends a shilling in the pound. Dad away overseas, mum huddles in a corner as they often bricked the windows .... Anyway how much better could it have been ... I would change it, but know that you, me and 1000's of others, even in this day and age, if been different then of course the outcome would have been different. Same today, were earnt that grit in our make up. Like others respond, and react differently to their up bringing. But now amount of grit, or whatever, claws the majority out of the quadmire. The basic wage for a vast majority to day is £5 35p. or £215 LESS stoppages... 22% tax after £120, NHS AND CARDs etc. Take home pay for most of us is around the £160! or £8000. Now a morgage, 3 kids, etc. etc. then the lads school fees for whatever, football club, gymnastics etc. a P.c. and designer clothes that all their mates seem to have. and no one, but no one can tell me that they are equael to those taking home £25000 - £30000 or more! This is a reality, and most are too proud to say so. (London is a higher wage scale, but then so is the cost of living supposedly. I like the idea that the young hard working woman, - like our mums - that strive to make ends meet, being only to pleased for the ole man's hobby taking a £1000 a year even! Cost of feed and training etc. and £20 a week I believe can soon be reached. so what is anothe £700 to find- with rings - nothing, I'm sure she will be only too pleased to take on another job to pay for it. Heard tale that Xmas won't be paid for by the majority till after April... Then... So no it is pie in the sky for any new comers. ET won't make any bird fly faster. AND great for Training purposes for those that can get up the road with the birds regular lol. But just the fact that there is a benefit for those able to have them, means all those that don't like to admit they can't afford them are losing out again! No wonder they are anti. Like I said in the original post... Give them 20 seconds a birds handicap, and get it passed... then don't bleat about being victimised and the other cobblers about others can if I can. Expat1 if you have used them, then you know that Trap Shy alone gains time for the ET every week. And ifon the longer races it don't - supposedly matter much, then why not give it. By the way, in answer to you post time before last ET's are been allowed in England sine year dot... just not in racess, but for training purposes etc. nothing has stopped anyone from owning and using one.

Likewise we had two homes bombed, fortunately not direct, and were in basements. And underground. We were evacuated. And I don't think for a minute that that was better for us. Yes we did what you call survived, but can't see any benefit in all the upheaval. The local lads roughed it with us like most of the country. I have 5 Brothers and 3 sisters; yes always someone to play or fight with, it became a way of life. We knew no different. But I believe, like in pigeon management, that we would have been better of with two boys and one sister! - Obviously wouldn't change it for the world... but wouldn't have known any different if grown up just the three of us. Smaller families were better dresses. Better mannered. More direct in all approaches to life, more concise in an outward thinking ability. We were bound by what was a reality of expectation... mostly that we wouldn't be able to - costs wouldn't allow it. Was I proud of my hand me downs! No, but fought tooth and nail to say I was, and it didn't matter. You know what, in reality it did. It hurt didn't it! Wanting to have and be like the others. But we were and still are governed by the bred in old age doctrine of the 'Haves and Have nots'. That it was their right to... and ours to accept. Yes sure it has changed a lot, especially on the surface, but the reality hasn't much. Still the affluent speak as if any and everything is in easy grasp of everyone. The pseudo crap of every one being born equal, and if I can, then so can others. Just aren’t true and 1000 miles away from reality. The very fundamental basis of brain power, and upbringing sees to that. Those born with deficits, the parents lack of knowledge and understanding in instruction and purposeful rearing is of course very lacking by very many, through ignorance and conditioning when they were brought up. Yes mucker, the adage which aim at those not wanting change in T's with the detrimental comments that 'If it was ok for my father, and his fathers father ... does ring true in some aspects, because they know no difference. They have seen countless examples first hand where change has only helped or bolstered the more affluent. Sceptic! Sure, and with good reason. We seen every day silly comments still aimed to fool by those that know better. Like wind doesn't make any difference to a good well motivated bird. But won't wager on their beliefs one penny!

Yes things change, and not always for the better ... what was wrong with the Solar clocks? Yes I saw them in England, when they were being tested by certain fanciers - selected - I was there, with oversees visitors. Yes of course it will come... and at a great cost of members. Never mond all the great merits... it is what the grass rootes perceive to be true, and who's would be working come saturday ... have to take it away and replace every race day and car batteries etc. etc. So no one is- or ever has - held back progress... Then again look at all the Wonders and progress, and the 1000's of hardships that have gone with it.

Strange that ... even Ardens son could / didn't have any to sell shortly after his father died, but quipped 'There is no such thing.... but America has mass produced, like many more bucket loads of them.

Et are able to time in from 2 or more races on the same day, and are able to send direct to the club(s) the times they timed in. I have seen many ET's in action for your infomation Expat1 one. And in this country to. Like I repeat, they are over the seaon(s) an advantage. Just birds becoming trap shy means that they have an advantage alone. And the more the manual clocker clocks in the more the likelyhood of it being even better and longer. So that seriously needs addressing as I have said. In fact my last post on here covered much, and after 6 years of debating I have yet to see any eveidence of any 'PRO ET' person giving any credit where credit is due. Sure for those that can it is a great thing! But for many reason, and varied many can't. So untill one is fair, and seen to be fair the status Qua will remain. Indeed I believe 100% that the majority, obviously not all, but in the main, the pro ET club members are extremely selfish and uncaring. Very much 'Bully for Me and Tough on Him'. They, like you Expat can see, let alone understand the larger picture, and / or what it concieves to be. Would I like a ET... I'd love one! Would I vote for it... not in the next 5 years!

I'd like to take that further Tony. Given a choice of a genuine pedigree pigeon and a bird that has parents that have won good races which one would most choose. A step further, would anyone be likely to pay a lot more cash for a good Pedigree bird of fine breeding, than the one who's parents have both won.

Possibly true that Pigeon Man, so in that annalasise I'd say that very few indeed rely on pedigrees. That's enforcing the asumption that very few in real terms actually bother, unless selling birds. Or spout down the club.

Pedigrees are only as good as the man is honest ... all the way down the line. Rather see the Cards with the Sec's phone number available lol.

Lilly, whatever you mean be that as it may, for you have lost me. But it is obvious that drug enhancing goes on. The days of the coffee beans have slip bye, which wasn't much good any way if not released till next day. What amazes me is the people that try to dismiss it as 'Ole wifes Tales' etc. ... Now that in it's self tells a tale. Of course syringes are used by some.... just can't see how any one can just dismiss it! And of course only in ceratin circles, most of us lay men have no idea what and how it works. Let alone where and how to get it!

Well I think to make every one happy that they drug test the big time LOSERS every time. Then at least we know two things for sure, If they are using it ain't doing them any good. And the Winners can't come up with crap it's because they are winners. Of course it thye blumming GOOD birds results that will be tested. Like in any competition! ehh!

Flax a natural laxative / cleaner. Good for oil and protien. Birds don't take to it readily though. Is posibly good on return Saturdays. Like Barley - which is a blood purifier, Linseed will claer the system naturally.

Am tongue in cheek, implying that it is only the money boys able to do that ... and that's how they make so much money. Sorry if offended.

I was talking past time back now - quite a while in fact now - to two or three top class fanciers who stated that they personally have never done it. They were able to tell me, how and where the syringe is placed etc. So I have no doubt that some, somewhere have done and no doubt/ do. So it is and has been around for quite some time. Also the ole adage of Smoke without fire oft rings true! There is nowt worth winning here about where I, and many others, fly from. So that would also be a waste of time. Likewise again, a syringe won't beat the wind.... might adjust the sails a mite, but the races will still be in the area's favourable on the day. So if there is any being done, then it would obviously have to be in those worthwhile places, to get the edge in them sections /Feds etc. Now as far as I am concerned, and many others no doubt, nowhere near worth it by a long chalk for a bit of cardboard!

Ah these money dealers, lenders and Merchant Bankers (Feather Merchants are al of the same ilk lol) Just like Stu too eh! Have to watch them closer than inside out eh Tammy lol.

£80 for 10 off Tom Robinson of Scarboroug( what a knowleagdable man!) ... There was suppose to be 12, but one had a bad hatch (or no hatch) and I still paid the same, plus my petrol LOL. They were class acts. had the blood rife in loft Then mixe with another two strings of blood. Can't mate them up now, as nearly all are related, cousins etc.

Couldn't care less about the signatures really ... is nice to know though that a fee is paid to help run the Site. Know a site or two that just the owner pays all the 'Bills' out of their' own pocket. Could be that a few take advantage and get across things that might mean a bob or two in their, or someone else's pocket. That, if the ones that do subscribe don't have any objections - is really then down to the owner who pays the bills and what he feels about it. There is always a bigger a picture to look at, and if it doesn't effect me, for example, I'm sure I won't give a fickled rat's tail.

Too help them selves to a better advantage ... like the South Coast boys do every chance they get ... for even bigger and a better advantage to those flying 150 - 300 miles further. And as no two days are alike, there is another advantage. The idea - as it is put over - is that the birds will only be able to reach the coast, but not cross. So a simple hop over the 20 miles of water and Roberts your dads brother. Of course those flying further have tired muscles. Get got wind breeze THEN have to face the elements etc. AND supposedly faster than the Channel Hoppers etc. Of course those flying further are generously bolstering their coffers. And then of course ADVERTISE middle distance birds as Distance winners etc. Yes a con. All birds should - where applicable, be given every chance, aid, help to home on the day! To be in their Loft at nightfall. Hence as soon as the sun shows it face and taken a ny nipp out the air. AND why not! Certainly not hindered with cra that it's fairer if they can only reach the channel by dark... Birds will and do fly at night, and some will attempt the crossing! And that's another fact!

Agreed. Can't see why the scare mongering of 'Taking from Between the joints can hold water. I believe that a Blod sample would suffice, and they can do mine any day any time anywhere. ... Mind I do feed fermented beens so the birds may wel be nissed as pewt lol.

Can't say really, but have implicit trust in it. I will see over the next week or so, as I will lomblast them Hawks - a couple of hundred yards away with a 1000 watts per channel through out each and every night lol. Sound travells well in the still of the night, so I reckon the next 30 mile radious will be cleared. Neighbours will think they are close and must be large, so be too scare to go outside and investigate lol. Mind the hawks have cleared the crows. Saw on on my roof today actually, and a magpie yesterday. But I doubt if either will remain for long. Crows clear the magpies, and use their nests. Crows circle and antagonise hawks ... Till food is tight, then they are ate or move on. Still a loads of pigeons in the ole Picture House, but hey have cleared the crows, so the must have thought they were pushimng their luck, or got ate. Seriously I believe in them 110%

Don't you think that the Auctioneers have to put their hand up for some of it! Yes I know they can't advertise 'Selling pseudo birds that are suppose to be good, but are crap'! Etc. But on the other hand, many have factious claims, done by very many different ways ... least not the 'Name' that vouches for a certain party. One swallow never makes a summer, and the saying 'He is one to be beaten if you are to win' etc. use to hold water, now many holes have been drilled in the bottom of that one, as they smile and glumily say 'Wel' eh ehe eh heeee 'If you don't beat his... eh eh, then he'd be beating you lo, so you must beat him ehe eh hee'. And many more scenario's! Just look at the columnist that promote crap, and they MUST know different. And the beat goes on. Vic if your not going, then I shalln't bother either. Most see and stay with their club mates and talk Tavern Dribble, and I like this time to get away from that lol... But I will just go one day, and listen to others, and when I hear some sense, and honesty as I see / hear being spoken I'll introduce me self and ask to join in. I'll change me name to ... well Kipps I think lol.

Link gone lol... and of course Bert Hession had a similar named bird.... golly wonder how old the son is 6 years or more!