Roland

Again I agree totally PigeonScout ... beginning to worry me lol. I hard the birds on Tick Beans and Maple peas for a while after racing ... then added some barley to cleanse the blood. Soon as the snow hit I bought a sack of Maize - Hemp is good also - to warm their blood a mite. As it happens it wasn't needed really, just the 2/3 days like. But there is a nip in the air so it will remain as such. Birds fly out each day in turns, as there is enough light for both. Don't bother to get up much before 11 and like to try and be regular. So it's Cock birds out at 12 one day, hens the next but do clean out each day. If blood is clean, air ways clear, and a little exercise, can't see much being wrong with them. If one or so get poorly, and others don't, bang goes their chance of breeding till provened by the races. I find that good birds don't tend to over eat, nor do they get poorly, well definately not often.

Very true PigeonScout ... Steve nothing stops one from having Blinds, Heaters or fans, sliding panels etc... Personally I feel that it is better for the birds to come into form, then into super form naturally. I further believe it to be very hard for a bird to hold form for a long period of time ... average I'd say 8 weeks and you'll be doing well. Spring onwards, but I seldom race till May anyway. But you will see via droppings if birds aren’t resting etc. at night. But All lofts need fresh air and to be dry! Did have sliding panels once to control the air flow in winter … felt it was not only burdensome etc. but birds fared far better with a natural climate change over night. Will have to get some photo’s done and let you all pass comments, good and bad.

Yeah ... watch out they don't start mating and laying eggs lol.

Some simple basis I believe for building your own loft. And can be very cost effective. A loft needs air circulation and a place for the birds to shelter from the elements. An affinity to some ‘Box’ they can get not only attached to, but be content with. A pace just outside of it's ‘Neighbours’ peck! The sound structure needs to be weighted down. Such timber like uprights or cross beams are best bolted, but I never have … always going to. The bottom Beams I feel are best bolted onto a ‘Kerb’ or like structure, leaving gaps for air to circulate. Fill in the gaps with a Mesh to stop not only the birds from going under the loft – there are some that will mate under there as sure as eggs are eggs – but cats, vermin etc. After all the doorways are in place etc. and the ‘Loft is divided into appropriate departments, then the whole shindig covered with two layers of wire mesh. Best with a 1inch baton covered both side in wire mesh. The smaller the mesh squares the better. This can then be laid straight on the ‘Ceiling’ (Not the roof.). Remember you must have made allowances for the roof to be fixed a foot or so over THE ceiling. Also the roof needs to over lap the whole loft by a foot or so. Best to have it sloping towards the front, not only does it protect a little from the rain, but you will see a cat on top! Between the ceiling and the roof, it needs WIRE mesh or similar so the wind / air draw through like a flat top Haystack. Now the outside wants air vents joined via frames up to half way. This also wants to be covered on the inside with a wire mesh. Again the smaller the squares the better I feel. Top half to be how you see fit of course in regards trapping, light, etc. A trough covered with chicken mesh lid 8 inches wide catches the droppings if you so wish. I feel also that a box effect to be able to feed and water from the outside is often of use … especially if a non pigeon fancier ever has to look after them.

Built ALL mine own. Most of them from Demolition sites. Good well matured Beams, Cedar, or pine slattings. Genuine floor boards etc. Did twice buy New Material and built... was ok but never a patch on going down the demo sites and speaking to a fela about igeons and how you'd love your loft to be etc. Had them deliver for a drink. Now I believe that buying a little ad a ittle fore thought a brill loft would cost very little.

There there, and I will write this slow for you Homer, as I can see it takes a long time to sink in! W -- H --- O SAYS THAT f ... + ... m is 'p o l i t i c s ! still I will close the subject because it obviously is all tooo much for you to ...

Ps I didn't know that F & M was politics! But THEN some can turn any and everything into politics if they so wish, as your bruise ego and silent cxrusade proves Homer.

You mean get insurance / government hand outs! Never seen the time, or the farmer that wasn't whinging about how hard done by they were. What with the entire tax payer money ploughed in year out, should do what Thatcher told everyone else, -If can't make it pay do something else ... but increased their’ substances’. Either it’s ‘To wet, too dry, wrong kind of rain as they drive around in turbo charges Monstrosities. Don’t pay rate, etc. Hose ban means a quick exemption of a few quiddies (still less than a tenner) for a Licence to use as much as they like Then have Gaul to sell all their’ so called waste / ploughed in produce TAX free on the road side. Yes after it shows a mitre, plough it in and grow something else, etc. And the consumer doesn’t flay the farmer for Cheaper produce or milk etc. that is down to the power of the Supermarkets ad them wanting their shareholders huge interests, and 2-3 billion pounds profits. Tell your boss to tell them to pay him more or pass more savings onto the consumer. I have yet to see, for I have never seen a placard, or a lobbyist purging the supermarkets to pay the Farmers or anyone else they trade with LESS! So just where do you get that from …. Mad cows disease!

And I do buy Organc, I also purchase from the Butchers as to the Supermarkets. The reason being, among other things, is that fresh meat their is in reality a lot cheaper than Frozen with 50% - 70% water legally forced in. And collectively all make a rod for your own backs, because if you DON'T supply, then someone else will. And once there they squeeze a little more for a little less.... Was on the Milk Farm last year where I saw first hand the crap fed. I believe that a cow to most is a machine where they pump in one end and milk the other, and clean up. Any way homer not falling out with you, you struggle along and make ends meet and fair play and all the best to you. I don't really wish to get into the Politics oand the wheres and why fors.

So... live with it! Many did, and as to what you did, or didn't do, me, nor any one else really gives a ficled rat's bum lol. But I do believe that you are ignorant to what many others DID do! End of subject lol

Ah well after the cherbo mucker in Wales we could buy sheep for less than a £6 ... couldn't give them away ... And just shows your ignorance 'beautyhomer' I live in COUNTRY and I also delivered, just shows how little you really know, let alone able to grasp!

No not Bruno ... Human life loss is next to zilch. Creature loss is in actually reality no more than a hinderance, insurance covers etc. Take F & M farmers couldn't wait to get it... was buying and introducing them as quick as possble. Made many Solvent and was a blessing in disguise. Put a lot back on their feet infact.

Lol like that... if you can't beat tem join them lol. Well don't believe about the Faces and money first, as I believe there is next to zilch risk of deaths anyway! .... Since 1992 how many deaths eh! None in the normal world, and marginal in Asia etc. Yes hardly any and certainly NONE unless you sleep with the affected birds or real close ... Like eating them! Now the ordinary every day flu Killed 5000 last winter alone, so in reality Avian is just a band wagon. Best thing about it they can shout and hold office and make ludicuss claims whilst knowing that hardly anyone or any body will be affected in this and other European Countries.

Like them picking bricks, or between bricks to get the Lime. r how they know where a Lime trough is in which field, they soon are there. Used to get a 25k bag of Catle mineral and place before them regularly ... And they tell me that the ole Rock Salt that cattle lick is no good, and makes them thirsty ... Well let them drink more water then lol, for we won't stop them finding it.... and as Frank says, 'Better in your own garden'. Never ceases to amaze me the ringed pigeons you see throughout the year in the fields, and where do they come from! For every one says 'Mine don't go fielding'! I wished mine went more often, like in Autumn was the ripe time and you needn't have fed them. I don't mind mine eating that kind farmer's crops he so nicely laid out for us lol And as for ' Not knowing what tjhey have been spray with.... well rain soon washes tha away, must do or they purpose of spraying would have to be done one evry 10 years lol.

100% correct AlBear. This is still the land of 'Haves and Have Nots' regardless how well we believe that 'Education' has closed any barriers, let alone superceded any. Paymasters make policies to suit, PR. firms embellish them and the hierarchy do just as they please. Never mind about WHAT should or should happen, as Thatcher said to Scargill' 'When I have you by the balls the rest of your body will follow;! Never mind the squeezing to get a the tune she wanted! And what can we do? Absolutely nothing, and they know as well as anyone else, that if a campaign or Public out cry was / is ever mounted, then by the time the dust settles all is lost, and gone as they will have you. The worse scenario is them being voted out ... by golly then we will all really suffer a lot more, so as the old adages goes 'Yours is not to reason why, but to as your told till you die'! Seems to make a mockery of all the posts here on Bernard Matthews topic now doesn't it!

When you filled it in Frank you disturbed the 'Minerals' which they are craving. Dpoubt you will stop them ... and why should you want to, they are getting better service than you.me or anyone else can supply. Like I say, Only real peat when missis wants to Pot about, commercial chemials are a cert no go area, but they lot peat too. Was time. and think seriously of doing so again, when I fetch mole hills and spread out, left a few days and changed, likewise water from a spring, but means travelling 5 miles every day and back....

Might send a couple of old ones this year to the earlier ones. Don't normally bother till 1st - 2nd week in May. Birds don't like the east in the wind. Cold, from Siberia! So I am then out of the Combine averages etc. which I always feel can be a could thing... seen too many a fancier strive and over send trying too hard. Rather place 2/3 each week and have them ready for the races, distance ones really. Read an interesting article about the Scottish Whiskey king, Newcombe I believe that said that after a few bad years he decided to sort out the birds, and only keep those that really wanted to be in his loft. How? By training after the moult in winter. Any reported he offered as give birds etc. Said he never looked back and became a force to be reckoned with. Did the same 4/5 years back. Even gave then enforced winter night out ... Worse sason I ever had lol. o was about the same... useless lol

Smallist 1, most 7

http://www.rosscoleyevents.co.uk/ Will add mine too then Vic. It was originally for business reasons, but most work is from recommendations and the odd agency ... but must have now raised a £Mllion or two for worthwhile causes. And a meagrely living! lol. But then get roped into Auctions, and much other walks for as an Entertainer, and always in front of the public, associates think you can do anything public related, and for nowt usually. Have to have a raise and then be paid officialy nowt lol.

100% it's against it's nature. Need companionship and plenty of it.

Lol should be Root and not Rot, and Good not God lol. Still may read efore I post ... perhaps not lol.

Mick great Idea... I have crusaded for yonks, with my articles in the BHW at fed and club levels. I first off tried to stop - persuade - clubs from splitting in two to fly South or North, arguing that both could, and should be run under the same roof, where any member could choose and take his’ pigeons for either route. Then my other 'Pet' topic is that all clubs be part of a Fed that is part of an Amalgamation which is part of a Combine which in turn is part of a National. Each week nigh, one just has to pay a few pence per bird to be in an Amalgamation, Combine etc. And it can be done easily, especially in this technical day and age. TROUBLE is too many are worried that they will loose a bit of an advantage due to Drag, or a change of Liberation site etc. And funnily enough it isn't the grass rot flyers that put blockers on it, or persuade other to be anti, it is them very same ones that have a god location and are often well placed in all their Races, from Nationals down. Like wise sections... They wont even consider length as to the gross unfairness of WIDTH... and why! Because the ones in the West are they nest eggs, and line their pockets and make their Coffers larger.

CCR was good as Uncle Tom's Cabin' but Canada has wierld ideas down on the corner and up around the bend over Green River to get to Suzy Q which happened to be a knock out for Rocky Mariano and not the ountains! lol.

Was at a good fanciers lofts not long back, when he made a point of makinhg me note that he liked these '8' birds because they held and kept a smaller wattle, indeed didn't ever seem to really get big ... therefore I quoted 'Ah so they always look younger' lol... But he thought, felt that this was a better pigeon. This wnt, or has gone completely over my head as to what he point was and why ... But he is a tip top flyer, and a very knowlegdeable man.

Fine Bruno, I must be wrong then... No one here is slagging them off! Nor calling them incompetent etc. Let alone saying how and why or what they should have done, or be doing! Further, as you all knew well before they did, why someone didn’t just tell them, beginning of January would have done just fine, and it's a marvel that they have everything at their finger tips and whatnot... Yes I agree then they are the daft ones and we are the clever ones, strange how they get paid etc. and we don't - now that must be fraudulent somewhere - . And another sad thing I didn't know, and apparently nor them, but you did Bruno, and that is that they shouldn’t have had the job in the first place! But what I really can't get my head around is, 'If they don't matter, and we aren't beholden to them as to whether we fly any where or not, why don't we all take great delight in sending them Emails telling them to get stuffed. Golly that will make Peter Bryant’s job a lot easier and simpler. But surely being as they have been given the job, whether they should or not is irrelevant, THEY do have it! Now I am missing something else here... As we are only a small minority in regards the whole of the UK, and our shores that do need protecting etc. The European law says 'Every Member has the right to defend the country as and how they deem best’. So though even as according to us they are wrong, does that mean we don't have to abide DAFRA's rules etc.? Will spend the rest of the day pointing out via posting Emails, that as they are half wits and incompetent and we all know better they can ....... and that as they SHOULDN'T have been given the job in the first place, their rulings are not biding. There, that's much better and simpler. But my point again Bruno wasn't at all about what you replied. I was just saying that regardless what we think or know, does it do our cause any good slagging them off constantly!