Roland

4 in one I believe, and I posted the 'Raptures' like your post Pigeon Scout ... it is different, but of course the Falcon Brigade can't admit to it. It works of course, which strangely brings me to another good thing for Hawks / Peregines, They can't combat against Canker. It is deadly to them.

You know, when that ole little feral pops into your loft, too many discard it litterually or what a blessing it can be. Feed light and entice it to stay. Even train it for up to 60 miles your birds won't live with it - But above all keep it around - cleansed with water and puratives on feed, for it will spot Hawks way before any of yours will, and lead them to safety.

It will burn a hole in the gut and forever resurface whatever it was till it has run it's course. In the mean time may other topic pages will be interupted. Hence by keep blocking and deleting it serves two purposes. 1. The instigators will constantly disrupt other topic. 2. it won't be put to rest .... whilst some members will leave. Hardly a mandate to push forward with I believe. Not been involved in any, don't know what the rights, wrongs are or even what about, nor do I wish to or care. But many discussions will be hindered and hence they will be harness and become futile too and good debates ruin. Sorry to see Darren go to, felt sorry for him being so ugly and annal lol, but he posted well thought out posts... How many more before the'Unpleasanties are allowed to die off!

Yes and no! Do you want to? why? and sure it is better to have a round off hem first. If you wish to break a bird, it must be within three days of it coming into your loft. No matter if it means retrieving it 20 times - though that wouldn't be the case. How far to travel, would they be happy with you retrieving! Now the bird must feel SAFEW and always able to get back into your loft. It must also want to be there, and that means likes your set up. Something it didn't like about the other and replaed with what it prefers. Yes a mate may help ... but don't go for the Nest / young scenario, that only works if it is as above! Yes I have broken many withing three days, and have raced - before the new set of transfer rules applied of course, within 3 weeks, like my mate did with a card taken after only 8 days in the loft. Have had a bird when I first started - I had 24 March the 10th and broke 21 in and raced them every race North and South in 1986. - Fellow changed his mind and pulled his loft down saying I was a Bloody nuscience etc. or would have broken them too - any this bird was on young, and I tossed it with the others on the Thursday at Grantham 50 miles nigh, and it went back to the previous owner. I fetched back Friday afternoon and left it 20 minutes on it's nest and then basketed it. 2nd Club 14th Fed Frazerboroughnearly 400 miles.

Think it's time us plebes did a 'Our Mum' like - small grocers bailing together and keeping prices down. Need a Buying power, and limits set also in regards of what we pay for our birds. Have a chain where young of good birs are swapped amogst our selves.

Be that as it may Vic... they awarded points - on a points Structure of course - and that what they came up with. And I suppose it would have been even more unamanious if he bothered with the distances lol.

Fine Vic, now what about the Novice, what advice, because he will - well for starters any way - most likely only mix and know future club mates.

And of course 'Well Water' is also superb, if you know well to get it.

Mole hills are free and contain everything they need, or are looking for. Use to place some on a board and then take back and replace with fresh ones every so often. Can't be arsed now, likewise use to fetch in 'Spring Water' which is also ripe with goodies. Now fielding is fine via me, I know the spray etc. but rain has washed most into the ground in no time... But they just don't go. Use to get the 'Cows Mineral' that they seemed to relish and travel afar for, likewise a little salt block. Qualtz is in every crop cut open... go figure that out. But is certainly found and got regular....

Never heard of him ... till a little while ago, when I read an article in the BHW! Apparently, he - and another geezer - has been the most consistant flyer in the N.F.C. Well obviously he must know his onions, and have a good set up. So all the power to he's elbow as he, like many others that get tpo the top, have to put the time and effort in... even if one has a loft managers, helpers etc. So fair play and congratulations on your fine performances ove the last 10 YEARS! well done mucker.

Sorry Silver one ... it was a 'Racing Pigeon Show'.

I like history, would love to be able to know the reality of certain aspects, and what made them Tick. Always two sides - several theories – which seem to go hand in hand. Genghis Khan, the original Ripper, Queen Elizabeth the 1st, and her dad… Then some nearer home, not so long gone. Prince Jackson was an unbelievable pioneer of pigeons distance (Trials in that there wasn’t a tremendous others sending). The present day greats like no other than Stan Biss etc. So how do we go about it/ Meet when possible, and then hear say. If I disagree with some one over politics, religion or whatever, many accept and agree to differ. Not every one thinks, or even believes I am an alien from OpoTubuka planet ... though many do of course! But it is discussed and as in any walk of life, opinions may not be changed. But when some one is interested, they ask! If they don’t understand, or come to grips with it, indeed anything in any walk of life they ask, or even challenge. If the person(s) wish not to have an open debate, or apply an answer to any question, then that is their right, and end of procreative theme, or learning curve. If the answers are not what one wished for, then tough … But a persons interest of any others regime, or hobby, is healthy for both sides … if one decides to sit tight or not be forthright it does tend to lead to some to think ‘Hidden Secrets’. So why is it that when doesn’t understand, or feels there more to it, perhaps that the answer or statement seems a little far fetch and they seek further enlightenment that the shutters go up, and a fold is formed with the old potato thrown out ‘Jealousy’! Codswallop at the highest level. Why not just say, No longer wish to discuss, or well you believe that and I’ll stick to … or well I choose to keep certain things to our selves’ etc. Fine! And if it is say a matter of records, and one persists that they can see the claimant’s record in print or whatever, but certain things are stated as true… Then it is any body’s right if interested, to ask / challenge even that point, and preferable pointed to the show them … But to say ‘I’m right, I know all and – the cop out clause of codswallop – your just jealous is ludicrous! Especially if there is printed prove or such! I mean just where is the jealousy in that!

I also feel there maybe another equation that may have a bearing. Pigeons love the sun on their backs, especially yearlings, and warmth brings Condition and form, even that super form. Now does global warming also have a bearing here. I'd believe, as me and a show judge discussed 3 weeks ago, that the birds in the 'Pen' were classes above what was enter 40 - 50 years ago. The wholeness of the pigeon has improve, I believe, nigh out of recognition. Which I feel also has a great bearing on the velocities achieved to - day.

Hands up all though those are jealous! For example jealous of locations, of money to buy the best etc. Not that it wouldn’t be nice, but who grits their gnashes’ and grind their’ their teeth because some one on the East Coast or whatever wins a ‘National’! I have seen very little in real life if any…. Etc. a few that have moved to achieve their success, and they guard their position piously and are very Very Jealous of each other and any one that beats them, or buys a bird they wanted. Yes those that have position, location and the birds so to speak are often of a very jealous nature! Now as for the ‘Rank and File’ I would ascertain that they are a happy little lot that dream mostly of club success and a good place or two in the Federation… 85% at least! Yes they do say ‘Weer it’s alright for him, he can afford, or has loft managers etc …’ from time to time of course. But then there a few that would like and strife every season that just once when the Moon was Blue the night before (HAPPENS EVERY 86 years on average apparently - that if their bird is in tip top condition – like most strive for any way – that the wind is Right, or there is no wind, then just maybe, maybe they will win the National…. But they are realist and don’t hold any breathe. They know – like me, they have more chance to win the lottery, and I don’t even buy a ticket. They are in the National for Section placing normally, nothing more, nothing less. Flyers like Gary Edmunds, whom I’d wager not many have even heard of him, but if he’d live next door to say Aurther Beardsmore, then that would have been a tussle and half every week! Isn’t it the case, that if one wants to ask, or challenge a topic, or debate, is it right that if it isn’t liked then it is often ‘Poof hoo'ed’ and left alone, and the old silly ‘Potatoes’ sprouted ‘Jealousy, Jealousy’ and hence laid, or tried to put to bed! I, like 90 odd percent are not jealousy, for we even look up to ANYONE that flies a good bird and give credit where credit is due, regardless of they ability, location, and bank balance, for they still – ok in some cases it’s a loft manager, so what! – have to prepare and have that bird in tip top condition to beat the others similarly placed. Fact, and reality. Seldom is – if ever – a persons achievements used as a Crutch to way lay one.

Words of wisdom mate - unlike those who view through jealous spectacles ... Mike where do you keep getting this kind of stupid crap from! Just who are these Nameless wonders that are supposedly jealous!!!! Or is it in your mind only! Seems to us that it is any plebes that doesn’t toe the line, or fall into to your and other’s pseudo - supposedly- greats way of thinking! I'm 100% certain I'm never jealous of any one or any thing, for starters, and can count endlessly non stop 99% of all the fanciers I know who aren't!!! I take it that if any one asks a question, or seeks a reason, then it is simple to point and say 'Jealousy'! What cods wallop, just a get out clause... time really to grow up Mike and put your tongue back in, for you’re mostly a feeble part of a creep. LET'S have it now once and for all! ...Hands up all those who are jealous of any thing and every thing that is related to pigeon keeping... and Mike can't get his head above! Surely he believes that he is a class above us al, jealous or not lol. If Mike you mean Jealous hey can't buy their Location, or afford above the plebe prices one has to live with and cut their coat according to their cloth, you are sadly mistaken! Most of us Plebs are happy with what we have, and enjoy immensely the challenges to once in a while excel. So button it Mike for you are boring with this studio insincere crap about being jealous. I mean there are numerous performances every week put up via back garden lofts that you'd love to accomplish ... but then I'd suppose if I told where you’d be jealous. Leave the plebs to enjoy, for many great names with out the location, or money, or loft managers would be heard of, that is a fact, and one that certainly doesn't make me, or any other plebe jealous, so please trade your fares elsewhere and leave the all important grass roots alone, and dare I suggest, stop touting for your superiors trade for them. Let them do it their selves, and leave us jealous plebe alone. It is mike just a blatant crutch to bolster your own superiority. Give it a rest for Pete’s sake. By the way Chris, never doubted your great performances... But I shouldn't say that mate, as, as one jealous git, it must be - like everyone else's slap on the back, really be just a bluff to hide their Jealousy.

Agree Birdman, unless hens are raced purely. But then again it appears that the Natural flyers are back in force even on the sprints let alone the hens on the hard, and distance, and especially the hard distance races.

Oh yes Birdman, spot on ... and as for the Vits etc. still many of our old timers - like me lol - don't bother much about them. Have a mate that has never, and his nearly 80 now - never ever treated for Cocci or Canker, let alone oat else. Open front and out every day. Buys some class birds and straight away gets them in an avairy to 'Air as he calls it ... Says the rubbish to - day has to get some grit and constitutoin into them ... he, like me has won the scottish avarages with one bird alone.

Bah Humbug, glad that's out the way for another year at least. Scrooge rein- carnated lol

Didn't get up till 1 O'clock... hid any nuts and chocks with the fruit! Well had the son and his kids around for about a hour - HAD HID any drink early of course... but quickly got shot of them, before I had me pork pie and pickle with roasted Rook ... later at night went for a spot to a daughters', didn't stay long of course as Doc Martin was on. Had me stilton sarnie whilst coast was clear from relative - all vultures this time of year. Said a prey, sorry prayer for Scrooges and had a good nights' kip. lol

Hens are better and more genuine ... depends on distance to an extent, but overall hens surpass cock birds, and are of course easier to motivate -- being that most motivation has the element of jealousy, and a hen deffinately for long and indeed hard races. Simple really I guess.... Hens every time lol.

Agree Ace, that many a distance race from Say Lerwicke or Bergerac was a VERY early next morning job, oftn on the loft when first getting there at 4 . 30 like.... but how close was they the night before! Was a time when the great puglists fought for a Steak, let alone trained on them ... which they then did for the protien. Of course now we know that the time and effert to digest the 56% protien is not worth 20% in reality ... and that one today trains on Carbs etc. Protien of course is helpful in repairing and healing torn muscles etc. but again bad if ever one gets too much and causes poisoning of the system .... Times and methods, and management improve, but I reckon that Past Greats in any sport with to - days managerment would take all the beat still. And of course as in humans we know that every part is worst than than before, brain power is less etc. BUT the fundemental basis of much is larger and hence easier to expand on even further. Cleverest man on earth to - day is reckoned to be using only 20'% of their actual brain power.

Ecact Mick .... but with better management!. feed etc. or are you perhaps saying you were a better fancier, with more knowledge 30 - 40 years ago than you are now, thought Ch pied's post was first rate personally. And let's face it and be honest here, lofts of 8 to a mobb flyere(lol) with 12 pairs tops were competing the complete programme - where if not home on the day was next or so. And 15 y/b birds meant perches were scrutinised to see which would have to go ... only enough acorns store lol. And y/b's went the programno bother ... till folks started trying to imbreed...!

Agree there Ace 100% But that were fed on wheat and barley and full of canker etc. etc. Their airways , blood etc. wouldn't have been as clear as today's birds - or many are wasting our money on supplements. They were flying the complete program, and on their 3 round of younsters lol. Mind al food for thought. But if only, ah ... I'd love for you to have a few of them old time greats in your loft today .. I'd wager my house you'd improve their performance umpteen fold... JMO

Never mind continue lol ... where does on go to start up, or improve their pigeons lol. Mind also like the history as I find that very interesting too Vic, so keep them coming!

Mind no good locking ... other channels will be used ... And frankly - though I draw a line at swearing / and slagging off at the other poster personally life or family, ( which I feel is not only in bad taste, and uncalled for) I believe that until a certain topic has run it's course, no moderlater / webmaster or anyone else will stop it. Sorry! That is why I keep advocating that there be a 'Private Discussion' channel where a another pass word is neded to enter - after coming o to the site, so only thoses wanting to post etc. or be involved are! Those then that see an affront to some of hese posts won't have to see them, because they will be in another section. Then if a poster is warned as to his conduct and rfuses to take heed... then bar the P.C. addie so they can't get on. They then go into Roly's Ring or whatever you wish to call it, or behave ... And further if a poster deliberately agovates another, or chooses to post on the wider public sector to gain support - a quick warning -BANNED THEM straight off!