Roland

Allbear, was a time till nigh ten years ago when I was involved, and once the manager of a ‘Big Band’. Up to 19 piece in fact. I wasn’t actually a player, as this was a class act. Never used to be, when I first progressed from a nice little 4 piece do the club scene. Local hot shots were ‘Prima Donna’ that lack professionalism. Was of course enough class local acts, but these were mostly playing regular for class acts. Pete – founder Member and class reader / musician, and I fell out with them from time to time. They thought they were above their means, big fish in little ponds. Well, was an American act of fame coming over, and we needed to rehearse the dots (Music) Three came from nearly 40 miles away that played at the Winsor Club in Manchester the Sat night, and didn’t finish till 2 O’clock. They were there at nine Sunday morning waiting for the doors to be opened, other local ones turned up between 10 and 11. I sack all the local lads and asked for the Pro Guys’ mates, and never looked back. And yes we often used local top flight boys, till it became like the ‘Move / ELO’ where we had a range of sight readers, of all ages and sex, that we could ring when convenient to both parties. Yes they ‘Named Dropped’ galore, especially when first meting up. Both I found that ‘Professionalism came in all shapes. Sizes, and all walks of live, and they were Name droppers, egoists, that were useless! Then were nice quiet gentlemen that were an honour to know and play with, would never / hate to let you down for whatever reason. And ALWAYS found or knew a good 'Depp' for you if need be - which widen the net for us. And then there was the shysters, hangers on, that knew and praise only those they thought something special, as if it would rub of on them, often they were never in the same town, let alone the same room, and of course – like me – never on stage with them. Yet my father was a brilliant musician, that couldn’t read a note, mother was a brilliant reader that only ever touch the piano once in all the time I knew her, though there was always a piano for her in the house. Why we never knew. Father had an impeccable hear and great ‘Dep’ of natural feeling, and was a renown violinist locally. YET a ‘House Hold’ name put HIS name to some of his music he played for him, and was broadcasted as such … because he couldn’t match the feeling father got when playing some sentimental song. Likewise I’d say with pigeon men. If they had the means to improve, they could if they wanted. Others name drop to own ends, and many just want to be in ‘The In – crowd’ regardless what fodder and rubbish they spout to be there. Like a ‘Fellow’ that wrote a great musical piece - that father had a little part in, named Ginger Thompson. He sent away this musical piece into a contest etc. never heard, so the wrote, and then wrote again, till the reply came that thanks, but sorry it was up to parr …. 2 years later, you’ve guest it a famous piece that was an award winning musical film too…. So too many praise unworthy people and causes. That’s fine when in ignorance … but when known, well surely that is another matter!

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=PY13503080

Yep, mud pies were the way to build up an resistance, and immne your system.

Have, Allbear, been posting many times on this very topic, and on various sites. It doesn't win you many friends, and your popularity sinks quite a bit of course. Not that that ever worried me in the slightest, and the very ones who are for want of a better word plebes, are the ones naturally that are only to quick to defend them.- I would disagree somewhat about the proletarians not being able to handle and get the best from them though. I believe strongly that certain aspects of any sport past - time has those born with that certain affinity that makes them excel ... though of course they can't just nip along and purchase a location for instance, but that is a another story. Was a time when the telephone numbers are banded when talking about buying the 'Goods' and the crap scenario about 'If you want to succeed go and do what I and other have done and spend thousands of £'s. One paid 10,000 each to get a top pair that did excel for him ... never mentioned how many others were purchased etc. Even to - day that is 2 years wages to a vast percentage of the country. In 1986 a basic weekly wage was £42 per week. That after stoppages was less than £2000's per YEAR! Now this guy was able to move to different locations to better his means.... how many plebses can do that NOW! Never mind then! These same folks that beat the 'Make up Crowds', who's money they are winning - remember the sprint cons that started in the 60's big time... mid week races, then the section changes to bolster up their' winnings etc – are the very ones that have little serious time for them! This man was asked how a young man with a wife, and two kids, high mortgage, etc. could, not only go out and purchase a pigeon that was a lot more than what his ‘Terrace House’ cost, but how to justify that to his wife and family. Besides the feed, poor training and location, if he was to compete, but how was it in the slightest feasible to purchase like birds? And was then asked HE was prepared to breed him a pair! Not only did he spit his dummy out the pram, the rattle and all went! In fact after a couple more home truths he left the sight, many was pleased, but some of the in crowd were least than happy, they seemingly missed his constant bragging about how good he was, and how he once won a National. Then when these and a few other minor details are raised, it is because of that old get out ‘JEALOUSY’! Cods – wallop, but convenient. Yes I suppose some do get miffed told how to succeed is to take out a mortgage and by the birds… go bankrupt and fly under another’s name! No the ole hot potatoes of jealousy is fast waning… though of course there is an element of truth there sometime I have no doubt, as there are in all walks of life. Likewise if anyone invests their cash in setting up a stud them bully for them and yes they are entitled to make a profit. Be absurd to think otherwise. And many studs are good, run by honest folk, who work hard to make a living at it. All power to their elbow, I say. But look at the columnists that endorse, the ones that ask for a gift young bird / pair etc. Isn’t it marvellous how birds of a feather stick … Look at the adverts that many in the proximity think they must be endorsing some one in another planet. Happens here just the same ‘One swallow makes a summer’ eh! No I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment Allbear, and it is quickly obvious who licks whose bum. Personally I give up on that topic because no one really wants to know… some haven’t the means, or in the know, and many just don’t care, as long as they get a pat on the head every so often the run and fetch lol. No Vic it was not about Chris Balsam. When I put the same points to him he was a pure gentleman, no airs and graces, no feeble excuses, were communicated and agreed, and admitted much, that every one had a station to fill, and regardless who, where , when or what, let alone why, we all look the same sitting on the toilet.…. He has given great birds away, and I know that for a fact. Likewise I know that Stu Swilcox has also been first to dip into his pocket and help out any charitable cause. Likewise many more too numerous to mention … For some It’s good business, but many because they care. And I wish I could fly a bird as well as Vic, especially when nissed. lol

Now being of a ‘Londoners’ meant many gauntlets were run nigh most days by us kids … Well there was an ole busy body called Mrs Emery, well we often spoke of her as Mrs Sandpaper to our mum, so Mum was, naturally, convinced that that was her real name, a Mrs Sandpaper. As none of the locals spoke to our mum, mum was reliant on our word of course. Now would we tease this Mrs Emery rotten, and she would rage behind us threatening assorts … oh how she hated being called Mrs Sandpaper… Now this was the only time she’d speak to our mum… to complain about us kids. Now mum asked her, Do they say ‘Good morning Mrs sandpaper… Well the poor woman would splutter yes but… Mum took no prisoner and didn’t suffer fools gladly, and to her this woman was most definite nuts… and Mum would, go away you silly woman, if that’s your name you should be use to it now… or change. Then after another short protest mum always finished ‘Now Mrs Sandpaper you are being foolish … when they aren’t polite to you or call you names tell, until then Mrs Sandpaper go away and stop aggravating me’. Lol Mum die believing that woman was a silly touched person called Mrs Sandpaper.

Now bath night were … bad lol. Saturday all boys and dad out the house till 7 as the girls were to take a bath before going courting. Sunday was boy’s bath night. Now the bath was an old tin one kept upside down on the coal shed. Was brought down and us boys wore frowns that our feet ripped over. The floor of this battered old contraption had al kind and sizes of bolt sticking up! Yes two washers a bolt to stop the leaks … had to have the bolts sticking upwards inside so it didn’t scratch the table … which was a pointless mission any lol. Heating the four pans on the gas stove meant costs. So it was lads line up naked, hands over nuts all trying to be last… and boy was it cold lol. First up was being warned not to piddle himself or he’ll get a flipping slap … that didn’t help either. Dad was waiting with a wet sloppy flannel; and a bar carbonate soap ready. Splash and it was up and in your face, feet walking a minefield of bolt sticking between your toes and digging in the heels, Yer move sharp trying to hide your privates, Dad would snap ‘You little Bl**der keep still, and ‘You dare pee… then a slap on the *expletive removed* and all hell broke lose between the slaps, freezing cold, and then you’d pee … ole lord it would trickle not matter how you squirmed, the you was out and dad screaming for the next, In your dash up the chair onto the table and a blood stain flannel freezing cold with a reddish blood complexion was slapped in your mush before you could place your feet between the spikes… the other nervously laughing - trying not to show fear, wait their turn… then mum shooting in with a pan of hot water which was pour in as you tried to miss that hot and the spikes… No one wanted to be first … then all seemed to realise the state of the water and wanted to be first! Oh wouldn’t have missed it for the world lol. We progressed and dad built a bathroom onto the house, dug out the channels and plumed it into the sewer mains … never asked permission, ands that caused a long running battle with the council. But it was never changed so they gave up, or thought he couldn’t understand lol. N0w we was the talk of the street, No electric still yet, just the ole candles and Gas Mantle, but a proper bath room and real bath. But never ever did any one buy a plug for it. We used anything and everything to bung it up to stop it leaking water. A quick wash was just that, as the water would have been gone in no time lol. Likewise the sinks, and my sister still recalls when she was first married that her husband and her were going through what was needed in their new home. Well when he said ‘Plugs for the sink and bath she argued that they weren’t a necessity, and for the cost of them there was far more important things to buy! But he was adamant, so she asked well can we really afford the, them being so dear … she thought it was the cost that had prevented us having plugs lol… We’d and many others would have been put in a home today lol!

Yeah Diamond, they were diamond days. Yes and if any wool was spare some socks were given a extra lay when new to make them last longer ... mine seemed to always be stuck around my toes in the welly gogs lol. Stunk of Fat - any fat as goose was rare - in the winter, and did it stick to the skin to keep out the cold! ... and vinegar to combat the sun in summer... Golly never needed after shave or deodrants in them days. All bikes were made up from the tips... and the odd bit bought on tick.

They are to go! If I want pretty ones to look at in the garden I'd get 'fancy ones. Tumblers and tipplers too, they were great fun... Would in a different set up have some more like when I was at school....

Yes we were the 'Gas Work Gang' and also Londoners evacuee's well dislikes, but we fought them all and never once lost, The Highfield Rd Gag, Cedars, Islips China town etc. even when they all clubbed togethe we clobbered them lol. Use to walk 2/3 miles or more to another village to swim in their locks, challenged Cricket and athlectics... walked 2 and a 1/2 miles to woodford agross the fields in the snow, drifts galore, set out at 8 30 and gothere about eleven, had to clear the snow from the lines on the pitch to see ... now they want a lift / picking up to go a couple of hundred yards. And by golly when that football came over!, dubbined or not, it wieght a ton lol and you were terrified you was going to catch the lace, and I' m sure the neck went into yer shoulders lol.

Seems that this one went - purposely or not, over Mikes head. I have had many long and often heated discussion on this very subject. But the reality Albear is the answers are well known and accepted ... if only kept to ones self.

Great ... remember when the lady went to the Jumble - which was a rugular occurrence taking upto a shilling even - and bought 6 girls bury's ... which they wore as knickers lol .. Did the hand stands against the wall with skirts tucked in, was never mentioned - to them lol I never knew what under pants were to our father got some thick wollens ones of the american air base ... aged 11. Table was turned up and the chairs and - suprisingly always had one - table cloth used for war games, dens etc. etc. Made rush to put back before tea ... which was bought in on tea plates, sarnies cut into foue squares. Rule was, and held to, that you could only hold one in each hand ... 'Yuk Mum that was peanut butter and you know I hate that, rather go with out , for one never new what was in them till all gone done. Had - from some jumble sales a couple of paint tins bought ... when staying in and nothing to do, why mum would cut a bit of her hair of and wrap it around a match stick with cotton, 'Ther don't bother me paint!' Stale bread with milk called slops, often gone or gone sour... then a mite of treacle added. Then the dreaded Evapourated milk was watered down, a to save costs or milk had run out, even Nestle cream blended with water. Yes was up early end of Fe to collect duck eggs, the ole cane with a spoon down the end and binded... no one has ever tasted an egg till they;ve had a Moorhens egg, - Coots not half as good, a swan egg was for four it filled the pan Every egg blown into a cup and emptied into the pan. Rooks, Blackbirds, any fress egg lol. Patches upon patches on school trousers, and a 'Sunday Best'. And bath nights! will post later lol

Lol Jimmy, called Heads and Toes here... Five of us boys once in one bed, and just the one piddler... golly was it awful to realise it was sweat lol ... Moan and shout whatever, Dad just promised things would change... they did eventually lol.Sisters got married and a scramble for the new bed... but it was an age thing so I lost out ever time being in the middle aged boy. Either too old, or too young. By golly and couldn't wait for them hand me down clothes lol. Cardboard placed in the shoes before school ... meant it had worn through by the time we got there lol.

There Tams been at it again and made himself tired ...

HOW TRUE IS THIS!!!! According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 50's, 60's, and 70's probably shouldn't have survived, Why?Because our baby cots were covered with brightly coloured lead-based paint which was promptly chewed and licked. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, or latches on doors or cabinets and it was fine to play with pans. When we rode our bikes, we wore no helmets, just flip flops and fluorescent clackers' on our wheels. ..if afforded. As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the passenger seat was a treat. We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle - funny tasted the same. We ate dripping sandwiches, bread and butter pudding and drank fizzy pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing. We shared one drink with four friends, from one bottle or can and no one actually died from this. We would spend hours building go-carts out of scraps and then went top speed down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into stinging nettles a few times, we learned to solve the problem. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us all day and no one minded. We did not have Playstations or X-Boxes, no video games at all. No 99 channels on TV, no videotape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet chat rooms. We had friends - we went outside and found them. We played elastics and street rounders, and sometimes that ball really hurt. We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits. They were accidents. We learnt not to do the same thing again. We had fights, punched each other hard and got black and blue - we earned to get over it. We walked to friend's homes. We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate live stuff, and although we were told it would happen, we did not have very many eyes out, nor did the live stuff live inside us forever. We rode bikes in packs of 7 and wore our coats by only the hood. Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that! This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. And you're one of them. Congratulations! Pass this on to others who have had the luck to grow up as real kids, before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good. If you aren't old enough, thought you might like to read about us. And that is just the starters....

Nor the last I'd wager lol

Hey did you hear about the guy who crossed a British BULL dog with a Chinese Chitzu. He called it a bullchit.??????? ha ha ha ha .

Oh yes getting back to nothing new in racing, just a different slant take Eyesign and what I quoted the earliest record of the subject being applied to pigeons, dates back over 500 years ago in the land of Persia. (Turkey today) by a man called Abduhl Fasule. He was the Governing Adminstrator, and a pigeon fancier of sorts. He raised table birds, for eating purposes?????? Carnu's and king's etc.

I decided that I needed a few days off and I realized that I ran out of vacation time already. I figured the best way to get the Boss to send me home was to act a little crazy. I figured he'd think I was burning out and give me some time off. So, I went into work early the other day and began hanging upside down from the ceiling. Just then one of my co - workers (she's blonde...it'll be important later) came in and asked me what I was doing. "Shh," I said, "I'm acting crazy to get a few days off. I'm a light bulb." A second later the Boss walked by and asked me what I was doing. "I'm a light bulb!" I exclaimed. "You're going crazy," he said. "Take a few days off." With that, I jumped down and started walking out. The blonde started following me and the Boss asked where she was going. "I can't work in the dark," she said. So I might have a merry Xmas after all lol.

When one loks at their birds exercising, and circling, and the FITTER they are the more noticable it is how they Speed up and slow up, even to a near stop, - depending on the winds strength - then curve and zoom again. If one hasn't seen, nor can rlate to that, then their observation needs seriously looking at. As for me I'm finished - hopefully - on this topic.

Wiley I believe that comment ' But at the end of the day if the bird is in very condition you can top the federation no matter where you are positioned and what wind direction' is absolute ludicris. 123 years, upto now 20 Nationals a season, and less than 6 wins! And great flyers with tip top Loft Manangers, like Frankie George who bought the best birds even at world record prices like the 'Flying Dutchmen' etc, proves that very logic a fallacy! We can't alter the wind, only adjust our sails mate, and when looks at the wins in over a 100 years on one hand VIA some absolutely fantastic, knowledgeable flyers, then the question why do those able, only buy a location in the East, or up a Valley. The reason is abundantly clear. And I' not knocing those able, not by a long chalk, but most when looking at results, look more closely at the lofts position than the wins! Like a couple in Belgium that not many over here are even awre of, have the top NAMES bicker and argueing for their birds!

Like Rose, and Tam... out all weathers.

Ben am unsure what you mean by a complete natural system. Surely a open hole and hopper feeder, left to breed and mate where they like ... was only last year ever that I have evr seperated mine ... again this last month... and that is purely because I wish to change mates etc. So perhaps you could expand on there being no complete natural system. And no after late September / early October any eggs - which were rare was substituted for pot eggs. By November there isn't any laying till near March. Have in one compartment 10 pairs, last egg was st week in October, sure they coo around abit etc. but none mated in the true sense. Was as I said a pain when wanting to change partners of course and nest boxes. Hence the cocks will be put to the Hen's nest box if a fresh mate is chosen.

Well that has an element os truth ... But what so many, indeed too many have done and do is give an honest answer that is sadly lacking a element of an all important piece! But the one biggest factor that anyone and everyone should take into consideration of any quotation is THEIR System and what the elements are that relate to that / them systems. The one biggest element of any motivation has to be JEALOUSY, regardless how applied or achieved. Nest Box, Partner / perch, the fuzz of the fancier etc. etc. etc. JMO

I mate the cocks to the HENS nest box... seems to have a easier settling affect.

Well Xmas is here and times are hard, so heres your **##*** ing Xmas card... and may Santa leave the biggest 'Dump' of all times under your tree lol http://207.46.11.124/cgi-bin/getmsg/Christmaswishes%2ejpg?&msg=701B09B3-4BDC-401C-BB1E-B806B04E1078&start=0&len=95452&mimepart=3&curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&b=b422280fc01eacafdfd2437cbf687f03&disk=10.1.106.221_d209&login=rosscoley&domain=hotmail%2ecom&_lang=EN&country=UK&SafeRedirect=%26hm___ts%3d1166618785%26hm___ha%3d63080feae2cf84438b09412a611be342