Roland

Below is an explanation where magnetite comes from. It is found in small quantities in migrating animals, e.g. pigeons. I don't believe feeding magnetite to pigeons will make them home better but I believe since it is a mineral it won't do them any harm. Here it is: ( Compton's Encyclopedia) The Earth's History Told in Rocks The rocks tell a fascinating story of the origin and history of the Earth--a story that goes back millions of years. They tell of giant explosions; of mountains that rose from the sea and then were worn down to plains; of seas that invaded the land and then retreated or dried up. They tell of blankets of ice and of buried forests that turned to stone. The scientists who can read this story of the Earth are called geologists. (See also Earth; Geology.) All rocks fall into one of three groups, according to how they were formed. These groups are igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks. How Igneous Rocks Are Formed The word igneous comes from the Latin ignis, meaning "fire." Igneous rocks were never actually on fire, but they were formed from very hot molten material. Igneous rocks were the first rocks. The Earth in its beginning was a mass of molten matter, or magma. It contained the elements, which are the building blocks of all matter. As the magma cooled and condensed, its elements combined to form minerals. Oxygen and silicon, for example, are the two most common elements. They combine to form quartz, one of the most abundant of the minerals. A different combination of elements produces the mineral feldspar. Scientists know about 1,500 minerals. The only ones that occur in large enough masses to be important as rock builders, however, are quartz, feldspar, and a group called the ferromagnesian minerals. This group includes hornblende, pyroxene, biotite (black mica), olivine, and magnetite. They are dark because they contain iron and magnesium. How Magma Becomes Rock Igneous rocks are still being formed from pockets of magma some 40 miles underground. Magma is a hot, doughy material mixed with gases and steam. It rises along cracks in the Earth's crust. If it solidifies before it reaches the surface it forms an intrusive igneous rock. If it is thrown out by volcanic action, it forms an extrusive igneous rock. The separation of mineral ore particles from waste or from other minerals is made possible by such properties as the specific gravity or magnetic susceptibility of the minerals. Mineral particles that are very small are usually separated by the use of special machines containing a fluid, such as water. The most important methods for separating or classifying ores with the use of a fluid are the gravity, flotation, and sink-float processes. A jig is a type of gravity concentrator in which grains of ore lie on a screen submerged in water. The water receives impulses from a reciprocating plunger. This causes the grains to be placed in suspension and sorted according to their specific gravities. The heavy grains sink onto the screen; the light grains float. In the flotation method, the finely ground ore is mixed with water and fed into a tank, or flotation cell, which contains some chemicals. The mixture is agitated, and air is blown into the tank to form bubbles. The mineral grains adhere to the bubbles and rise to the top of the tank. This concentrate is skimmed off, filtered, and dried. The remaining waste material is drawn off for disposal in a tailings pond. In the sink-float process, the ground ore is fed into a cone-shaped tank containing a water mixture and a dense medium such as magnetite. The mixture is agitated by revolving paddles. The material having a higher specific gravity than the magnetite tends to sink and is drawn off through a nozzle at the bottom. The material having a lower specific gravity floats and is removed at the surface. In a magnetic separation process, the minerals are separated as they pass between the poles ofstrong electromagnets. Among the minerals which can be separated magnetically from waste or from other ores are iron-bearing magnetite and pyrrhotite.

Just answered my own question. Double yolk eggs are the result of two different ova being released by hens whose laying cycle is not yet hormonally synchronized. Hatchibility of these eggs is very low. Not enough room for both chicks to survive. Check the following link. http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/poultry/ces/educators.html Therefore no genetically identical twins.

Well, if you are a jack of all trades and no expert on anything(..lol) one needs to get the required information from somewhere. The quickest place is the encyclopedia and if it is important enough you search further. Here is another passage on homing ability out of Comptons. ------------- Many species of birds--such as pigeons, sparrows, and bobolinks--as well as some fish--such as yellow fin tuna--and honeybees, and even bacteria, have been known to migrate by orienting themselves to the Earth's magnetic fields. Researchers have found tiny crystals of a magnetic ore, magnetite, in the tissues of these animals that presumably help them navigate in this way. However, it is believed that birds in particular do not migrate by the polarity of the magnetic fields, but rather by detecting and then using the angle between the lines of the magnetic field and the horizontal plane of the Earth as guides. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. ---------------------- Above is only a theory same as other theories some of us believe to be correct. Scientists have found that several species of animals have magnetite in their tissues according to above. I believe feeding magnetite as a supplement does not make them home any better because there is more involved than magnetite in their tissues. I believe the scientists have not found yet what makes pigeons home the way they do although there are a lot of theories on this subject. In some of your mineral and vitamin supplements you may have a low-level of magnetite mixed in with all other essential minerals and vitamins a bird needs but just feeding it magnetite for the purpose of increasing homing ability is a waste of money, I believe. Never fed magnetite and never would even consider it. I believe a champion quite often is a champion despite of what it is fed or how it is handled. If a bird is not born with champion qualities it does not matter what we do it will never become a champion.

Bruno I don't know if you eat pigeons or not but I don't. However, there are those who do and one thing I have mentioned on here and else where is to for folks to do ythemselves a favour, to learn what your birds are using for grit. Ask whoever you give the culls to save you the gizzards, then cut them open and slowly wash away the fibres’ and seed casings and contents etc, until nothing is left behind but the grit that was in there. I use 6 at a time which gives me a good cross section of what I am looking for. If you put this recovered grit in a small clear glass bottle of water, and hold it up to the light, you will see that 90% of it is quartz, and yet very few commercial grits have quartz in them??? Therefore the birds are obviously picking it up as they do there open lofting but, it's interesting to note that quartz get's a major mention in the article posted above about Magnetite. So the next time your friend asks you if you have any slow culls for him to eat, ask him to save you the gizzards and check this out for yourself.

Just trying to liven up the banter and get 'Pigeon Talk' a little more rife like lol. Mind then a good old heated debate on the side will have ratings going through the roo f lol.

Do what you feel is best for your peace of mind. If they don't make it then you've lost nowt, and if reported later make it a belated Xmas Gift.

Feel that Quartz - like I POSTED ON another heading - is surprisingly in nigh ever pigeons crop, how and wherefore makes one wonders, especially when they tell you All grit given is in the loft, they never land elsewhere and I have them straight in etc. lol Below is an explanation where magnetite comes from. It is found in small quantities in migrating animals, e.g. pigeons. I don't believe feeding magnetite to pigeons will make them home better but I believe since it is a mineral it won't do them any harm. Here it is: ( Compton's Encyclopedia) The Earth's History Told in Rocks The rocks tell a fascinating story of the origin and history of the Earth--a story that goes back millions of years. They tell of giant explosions; of mountains that rose from the sea and then were worn down to plains; of seas that invaded the land and then retreated or dried up. They tell of blankets of ice and of buried forests that turned to stone. The scientists who can read this story of the Earth are called geologists. (See also Earth; Geology.) All rocks fall into one of three groups, according to how they were formed. These groups are igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks. How Igneous Rocks Are Formed The word igneous comes from the Latin ignis, meaning "fire." Igneous rocks were never actually on fire, but they were formed from very hot molten material. Igneous rocks were the first rocks. The Earth in its beginning was a mass of molten matter, or magma. It contained the elements, which are the building blocks of all matter. As the magma cooled and condensed, its elements combined to form minerals. Oxygen and silicon, for example, are the two most common elements. They combine to form quartz, one of the most abundant of the minerals. A different combination of elements produces the mineral feldspar. Scientists know about 1,500 minerals. The only ones that occur in large enough masses to be important as rock builders, however, are quartz, feldspar, and a group called the ferromagnesian minerals. This group includes hornblende, pyroxene, biotite (black mica), olivine, and magnetite. They are dark because they contain iron and magnesium. How Magma Becomes Rock Igneous rocks are still being formed from pockets of magma some 40 miles underground. Magma is a hot, doughy material mixed with gases and steam. It rises along cracks in the Earth's crust. If it solidifies before it reaches the surface it forms an intrusive igneous rock. If it is thrown out by volcanic action, it forms an extrusive igneous rock. The separation of mineral ore particles from waste or from other minerals is made possible by such properties as the specific gravity or magnetic susceptibility of the minerals. Mineral particles that are very small are usually separated by the use of special machines containing a fluid, such as water. The most important methods for separating or classifying ores with the use of a fluid are the gravity, flotation, and sink-float processes. A jig is a type of gravity concentrator in which grains of ore lie on a screen submerged in water. The water receives impulses from a reciprocating plunger. This causes the grains to be placed in suspension and sorted according to their specific gravities. The heavy grains sink onto the screen; the light grains float. In the flotation method, the finely ground ore is mixed with water and fed into a tank, or flotation cell, which contains some chemicals. The mixture is agitated, and air is blown into the tank to form bubbles. The mineral grains adhere to the bubbles and rise to the top of the tank. This concentrate is skimmed off, filtered, and dried. The remaining waste material is drawn off for disposal in a tailings pond. In the sink-float process, the ground ore is fed into a cone-shaped tank containing a water mixture and a dense medium such as magnetite. The mixture is agitated by revolving paddles. The material having a higher specific gravity than the magnetite tends to sink and is drawn off through a nozzle at the bottom. The material having a lower specific gravity floats and is removed at the surface. In a magnetic separation process, the minerals are separated as they pass between the poles ofstrong electromagnets. Among the minerals which can be separated magnetically from waste or from other ores are iron-bearing magnetite and pyrrhotite.

Could a double yolked egg be fertilized by different sperm. Are the two yolks split in the egg, or is it a case of the hen releasing two seperate fertilised ovum at the same time, each being fertilised by a different sperm cell, each in it's own yolk and being encased in the same shell. Not sure myself, anyone out there have an answer.

I think that that could have bad, and also serious reprocussions ... Hate for a bird or two of mine to come after the tossing turing and tumbling around, let alone the lack of air, for there would be any air vents. Nah I'd be up in arms mucker.

When one has honed and developed their own family, their confindence id times better. Not only in what colour born will do, but what will breed what expectations. One must relate that in the scenario of Distance Birds, ones that do the buisness on hard days etc. that these birds are nutured into a family. No disrespect, but many have proven that in the lotery of so called sprint races one can purchase the likes to win - on a proven system especially - to do the honours most time ... One can't do that I believe with a distance family of birds ... but these birds WILL also function well, and with merit at the sprints...

It seems to be going over some heads here, the purpose of a 'Family' or own Strain.

How important is it for one to have their own 'Family' of pigeons?

Well this last season start ( like now ....) twice soaked with bleach, then twice blow torched, the painted throughly 3 times... Will do the same to be finished before mating up. Yes I either use white, but mostly lime in corners and under paper in grills. One spot - this season Pour on of course. Hada bad case of sommat year before last ... took the 15 months to get better. Hence why I haven't and won't breed from them.

Nice to see her in doors appreciated.... My misses is frightened if the flutter let alone fly ... won't go near the loft. That is also probably a good thing lol.

No disrespect Mick, but the Egyptians were using homing pigeons before even the greeks, let alone Julius Ceasar.

Remember well the time when many were up in arms about a guy that did just that. He alo delivered them and demanded full payment( Rightly) from the owners as to the RPRA Rules... was making a little profit from 'Townies' etc. Quite legal if you have the Councils' / Building owners consent. He was charging the building owners the going rate and the 'Ringed' ones were a bonus!

Further, remembering that inbreeding (including linebreeding) is intended to fix characteristics. It will not improve what you start with. The Old Merckx bred the 019, 20 times 1st, the young Merckx, 21 times 1st, the Velo, multiple wins and sire to a 1st National winner (Klak Velo) and multiple other champions. In my opinion a bird worthy of line breeding to with the intent of breeding more like him. Your bird has bred 3 birds with zero wins but a few combine diplomas. Remembering that inbreeding fixes traits, does not improve on them, are you sure you want to line breed to that bird?

Now as one knows - or flipping should do - that birds, many generation down the line, can look to all sense and purpose exactly like the 'Champion' it has - supposedly - derived from! Two peas in a podd like! Indeed an whole loft can look like the original TWO that they supposedly represent and are bred down from. What I want to know, and have crystal clear light is this regard, 'When DOES the looks take over the performance'? For so many ... In my view, in fact too many are fooled into thinking that it must be a throw back to the 'Great One' that they wish to but into! Yet it is so easy to reproduce look - a - likes ... but performance a - likes is a different ball game I'd wager. Now I know, as do many more, people of noted fame go to 'Sales' and purchase any thing that resembles the original of a certain 'Family / Strain that they - supposedly excel in! Now think it through ''Even greats breed duds' and down the line much performance is lost - Then outside added vigour is needed! Me I'd never buy a bird that look great, let alone because it looks just like it's fore fathers.......!

I wonder if all the hype of these pure strains, they shape and sizes and merits go does the strain - name also go too? When the name of ‘SO and So's’ birds renowned for their certain qualities are no longer visible or meriteous doe that mean A. they no longer process them and are they no longer - regardless of the papers - the real McCoy? Consider also in this question that variation in a strain is not only introduced by the breeder, but also by nature, "chromosome crossover". If pigeons have an average chromosome crossover rate of "10%" in each generation...then left alone, in 7 generations a strain is no longer the original strain. This is like compounded interest. Depending on factors such as "chromosome crossover", without a fancier's consistent selection a strain or family of birds could look quite different left up to it's own devices. Each generation, "10%" of the birds may have changed from the original traits of the strain just by accounting for crossing over of a bird chromosome alone. Lucky, I believe, we have the basket to help make a lot of these decisions...for us. I know I have birds from the great Janssen line, but I don't know what a Janssen is supposed to look like! It is likely that if my stupidity doesn't cull or I loose them all, I will have departed from the Janssen look and feel in no time at all... I have handled birds – supposedly from Jansenns loft direct, - but sometimes one does have to go outside and check the grass is indeed still green - and their wedge like shape, and the bread was something I hadn’t ever seen before, but they weren’t nowt to beat club wise let alone trail blazers, so in essence what would I have left, and when, or how soon lol.

Pagosan... anyone use, and who sells it?

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses and all the king's men Couldn't put Humpty together again! "Humpty Dumpty was a powerful cannon during the English Civil War (1642-49). It was mounted on top of the St Mary's at the Wall Church in Colchester defending the city against siege in the summer of 1648. (Although Colchester was a Parliamentarian stronghold, it had been captured by the Royalists and they held it for 11 weeks.) The church tower was hit by the enemy and the top of the tower was blown off, sending "Humpty" tumbling to the ground. Naturally the King's men* tried to mend him but in vain." * NB: The "men" would have been infantry, and "horses" the cavalry troops. Just irrelevant nonsense incase you ever get on '15 to 1' lol

To continue to graciously lose ... like the best of them lol.

Arden ... even his son Hadn't .. AND HE NEVER SOLD ONE! there weren't none after a very short time. And love to see those that bought them nigh a 100 years ago and where and when and ... any after a very short time ... best - like he said - go to America and get some lol. Feather Merchants are great... and don't need to suck up the gullible... they hanker up like buses every 5 minutes begging to be fleeced lol.

And like I say, it will never be put to rest --- like many more topics that will come up ... until it has run it's course and been exhausted ... in a Private debate ... Sorry but that is a fact. Thoses of us that know nowt, still don't know nowt, nor - I would ascertain - want to know much, It IS DEAD, AND SHOULD BE BURIED, WHATEVER it was / is....but as any one with an happeth of snse can see, it won't untill it has run it's course ... take it to a Private discussion page where only those interested will enter, via another pass word. In the mean time ratings will soar, for like many others will have noted, figures are often over 20 at any one time, or more... Get it done and dealt with ,and move on to another heated debate.... For unfortunately, whether on likes it or not, controversity draws the crowds in.

Nationals have been one like that ... and even one when the birds very first race won a National, and how many can say that! From rabbit hutches of course lots, and lots. Was a flyer from Derby that had 8, each upon a pole in a circle. He won Nationals and just about everything else.