Wiley Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 What is your thoughts on the darkness system? In conversation with a top young bird flyer, who always performs at the combines/nationals and Amalgamations, he believes that people take the birds of the dark system to early, he believes they should be kept on the dark to beginning of August, as he believes it will hold back the form until the big important races come around, However he did state that the birds must be put on the light when he does take them off. What's your thoughts and when do you take your birds of the dark and why?
Tony C Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 When is their last y/bird race. I would be concerned they wouldn't finish their wing moult.
andy Burgess Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 i tend to do it as per John Halsteads old VHS. (although not last year) natural. only time i have seen / heard of it was back in 2005 a club member done exactly this he didnt win any cards all season ,yet was 1st and 2nd in the last yb race of the season from Picauville ,also in top 5 of fed .
Wiley Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Posted January 6, 2015 When is their last y/bird race. I would be concerned they wouldn't finish their wing moult. It's is something I should have added, the fancier did say they would still be finishing the wing moult in January but all would complete it. He also states you cannot pair them up early as yearlings, possibly due to the moult I'd imagine Their last race would be around same date as our yb combine Tony, so around middle to end of September, but this fanciers birds come into their own not for just one race but for quiet a few important races prior to the main event.
dal2 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 Mine were bred in january and on darkness as soon as theyALL were perching. Taken off mid may. Some just threw last flight arpund chrimbo most threw completely
Wiley Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Posted January 6, 2015 Mine were bred in january and on darkness as soon as theyALL were perching. Taken off mid may. Some just threw last flight arpund chrimbo most threw completely Dal,You say you take them off middle of May so roughly 1 month before the so called text books on Darkness suggest( June 21st) what is your reasons behind this and what is the benefit? How are your birds in the moult come the important races in September?
dal2 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 Dal,You say you take them off middle of May so roughly 1 month before the so called text books on Darkness suggest( June 21st) what is your reasons behind this and what is the benefit? How are your birds in the moult come the important races in September?I observe the body and if all moult well I see little point in prolonging an unnatural process any longer than needs be. I also think that more time on the wing around the loft unhampered by the dark to light regime can only be a good thing? I sent seven to the SNFC nat in September, all were good around the face and neck, some further in the wing than others but no issues at all. Our darkness ybs are paired up in jan with the rest of the old birds and rear a nest from the stock but I have spoken with a couple of fanciers who let them mature and dont let them rear a nest until 2yr olds and say their results/losses improve! I might try this at some point
Tony C Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 I can understand the logic of taking them of the dark later = the better they'll race at the back end of the y/bird program but..... is it worth the trade off! I'm out to win every race I enter but my love is old bird racing and wouldn't do anything that could jeopardise that. I feel the strain of taking them of the dark that late, racing them, training them & asking them to moult (again) then on top of that rear a nest before been put on the road as yearlings could leave their energy levels flat.
Wiley Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Posted January 6, 2015 I maybe made a mistake when I suggested the fancier in question is only a good young bird flyer, he is a good fancier all round.
yeboah Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 My best performances with darkness youngsters were when they were darkened for a full 12 hours and to the minute same routine every single day feeding measured to the ounce gave them a tincture that I made up their health was outstanding every training toss never ever circled always out of basket and direct North Darkened till 3-4 weeks prior to first race First tosses 7mls then 18mls then 25 mls first race 64 mls Reduced the darkening gradually just like summer coming to ourselves Lasted right through the programme not convinced with them later in life as all my biggest results were by lightly raced or unraced naturals Only bred a small team of darkies last year with one doing well at national Am now totally focust on 500-600 racing of which darkness plays no part Well at least with the YB s lol
Guest stb- Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 dont see any point in darkness seems a lot of work for nothing , im prob only one in my club who dosent darken yb or breed early , my first yb weaned about last week april 1st week may jmo
walterboswell59 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 dont see any point in darkness seems a lot of work for nothing , im prob only one in my club who dosent darken yb or breed early , my first yb weaned about last week april 1st week may jmogot to agree with you rab never seen the need winning youngbird races are bonus to me and you can still win them without all the hassle of darkness i like to keep everything natural but everyone to there own
VMS Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 dont see any point in darkness seems a lot of work for nothing , im prob only one in my club who dosent darken yb or breed early , my first yb weaned about last week april 1st week may jmoI agree Rab,I don't put any importance on YB racing as far as competing goes just happy to get them educated a win is a bonus,But appreciate everyone has their own individual goals.
Wiley Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Posted January 7, 2015 got to agree with you rab never seen the need winning youngbird races are bonus to me and you can still win them without all the hassle of darkness i like to keep everything natural but everyone to there own If you are not racing Darkness down this way, you are right they have a chance first 3 races, but after that the natural men fall to the wayside and are no where near the leading pigeons. Maybe my philosophy on pigeons is wrong but I send to win every race I compete in, whether that be old bird or young bird racing. It's interesting to hear people only send their young birds only for education purposes and have no interest in young bird wins, however for those fanciers that find this valid, a question I must ask is do you have a clock set for these educational races? If so why?
VMS Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 If you are not racing Darkness down this way, you are right they have a chance first 3 races, but after that the natural men fall to the wayside and are no where near the leading pigeons. Maybe my philosophy on pigeons is wrong but I send to win every race I compete in, whether that be old bird or young bird racing. It's interesting to hear people only send their young birds only for education purposes and have no interest in young bird wins, however for those fanciers that find this valid, a question I must ask is do you have a clock set for these educational races? If so why?Think you have to have a clock set or you belittle the race for your fellow club mates,like I said if i win then great but ain't going to go out my way to achieve this.
cemetary Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 If you are not racing Darkness down this way, you are right they have a chance first 3 races, but after that the natural men fall to the wayside and are no where near the leading pigeons. Maybe my philosophy on pigeons is wrong but I send to win every race I compete in, whether that be old bird or young bird racing. It's interesting to hear people only send their young birds only for education purposes and have no interest in young bird wins, however for those fanciers that find this valid, a question I must ask is do you have a clock set for these educational races? If so why? Good point, and the answer will be YES, they have a clock set, even though they like them races for education purposes, my *expletive removed*.
C WRIGHT Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 i agree will dal on this last 2 years i have had yb on darkness and won yb averages both years dont agree that winning yb races doesnt matter to most everyone wants to win and if not they would only put them away as trainers not in the clock as soon as through body moult not text book dates i put them onnatural light this allows the start of training quicker and in my experience they hold the wing and feather well i sent 18 to yb national all well feathered with 17 returns 1 loss they are all 100% through the moult and paired up it works for me and goes well with my work schedules
Wiley Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Posted January 7, 2015 Think you have to have a clock set or you belittle the race for your fellow club mates,like I said if i win then great but ain't going to go out my way to achieve this. Vincent, but isn't it belittling your club mates, if they know your sending half heartedly and not with maximum effort to win?
VMS Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 Vincent, but isn't it belittling your club mates, if they know your sending half heartedly and not with maximum effort to win?I like to time regardless,if I win well great but have little chance against the darkness youngsters but as I said like to get on the result and on occasion get the odd win,We pair up mid Febuary and YBS trained twice a week so are fit but no where near the condition Ov the darkness YBS they are competing against.Old birds come into the same catagory will have 4/5 club races to condition before the channel races once again also nice to see them on the result and great if they get a win but the aim is preparation for the channel races.
peter pandy Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 Never tried darkening youngsers nor ever likely to and won more than my share racing natural stopping them individually when the covers fall. I dont know if they are more likely to finish the programme or not but look at it this way. If the largest bulk of race candidates are darkness Y/B why are the losses greater now than in the past, with many on darkness are the losses greater. I know of one fancier who won much with darkies but his losses were greater and found his breeding from them produced poorer specimens in future years to the extent he has almost wiped out what were a successful team and cannot finish any programme.
walterboswell59 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 If you are not racing Darkness down this way, you are right they have a chance first 3 races, but after that the natural men fall to the wayside and are no where near the leading pigeons. Maybe my philosophy on pigeons is wrong but I send to win every race I compete in, whether that be old bird or young bird racing. It's interesting to hear people only send their young birds only for education purposes and have no interest in young bird wins, however for those fanciers that find this valid, a question I must ask is do you have a clock set for these educational races? If so why?well speaking for my self wiley i still like to win the yb races but im not prepaired to darken them and have won out to our yb national with natural yb its the amount of fanciers who say there darkies do nothing as yearlings that puts me off even trying it m8 and for every one that says there darkies do well in later life many more say they do nothing but ive nothing against it if it works for the guys who do it good and well ill stick with nature but good luck to all who differ another reason i go every yb race is to win our combined ave trophy witch is the best trophy in our club but my best yb are stopped after 3 or 4 races
kingbilly 1 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 well speaking for my self wiley i still like to win the yb races but im not prepaired to darken them and have won out to our yb national with natural yb its the amount of fanciers who say there darkies do nothing as yearlings that puts me off even trying it m8 and for every one that says there darkies do well in later life many more say they do nothing but ive nothing against it if it works for the guys who do it good and well ill stick with nature but good luck to all who differ another reason i go every yb race is to win our combined ave trophy witch is the best trophy in our club but my best yb are stopped after 3 or 4 racesyou dident this year wattie send to them all the thing is with darknes ybs every budy who goes on it thinks thay can start wining races but you can pout a dress on a pig but its still a pig naturel or darkness you dont get many out of 100 thats any good never mind champions who score more than 2 to 4 timesand last to 3 year old
walterboswell59 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 true tam you need to have good birds no matter what the system not been to the yb national for few years now no chance for the west section imo and the last yb race was for the yb national men so no point if your not going do you darken your yb tam
kingbilly 1 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 true tam you need to have good birds no matter what the system not been to the yb national for few years now no chance for the west section imo and the last yb race was for the yb national men so no point if your not going do you darken your yb tamyes mate and can get them the next year out to the coast with grait results 1st west section snfc 1st lanarkshire fed eastbourn won a lot of madstones with yearlings that where darkes but thay have to be breed for the job and raced every week to the coast the same as thare parents have for years
alec guinness Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 yes mate and can get them the next year out to the coast with grait results 1st west section snfc 1st lanarkshire fed eastbourn won a lot of madstones with yearlings that where darkes but thay have to be breed for the job and raced every week to the coast the same as thare parents have for years Do these birds score at 500 miles as 2 or 3 year olds tam.?
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