Guest Paulo Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hi all just after some natural fliers advice for what I’m planning for next season. Have 24 young birds left to race next season. Will have a team of 12 widowhood cocks for inland and these will be fed, trained and raced on a classic widowhood system with 12 hens staying at home boxed up for them. These will do me for inland racing with maybe towards the end of the season being repaired for the final channel race. The 12 hens I want to race on the natural system and they are all of channel origin bred through George Wandless of Hetton’s pigeons with a few other odds and sods such as Alan White of Hetton’s pigeons in there. These birds as yearlings will be raced up to Rheims which is around 447 miles to me and Arras which is around 330 miles mark. They will be destined for Bourges as 2 year olds which is 550 miles. Now I know people will say race them widowhood, celibate, roundabout etc. but I’m not really interested as I want to race them natural for three reasons really:- 1. Stopping hens going lesbian on me as I’ve a tendency to be a bit heavy on the feed with hens 2.The missus has a new job which involves her going to work 20 miles away every day. Its training back over from the north instead of the south but hey for old birds especially channel bird’s trainings training. Small basket in the back of her car she chucks them when she gets to work and by the time they back all I have to do is trap them feed up take the bairn to nursery and then work. The widowhood cocks will be exercised and trapped in by the time the hens are back. This will save me an hour on the morning of exercising the hens which I would have to do if they were celibate/roundabout. The natural hens will be exercised an hour on the night. 3.For long distance natural still seems to be favoured by a lot of fliers especially in Scotland so it must have its advantages. Plus when I first started racing pigeons I raced natural and had success with it inland and enjoyed the method even though form came in cycles. My loft layout is closed in, pantile roof with good ventilation with 4 sections with a corridor throughout and polycarb front . Solid plywood partitions separate the sections. Each section has its own external sliding door for trapping into corridor then through section door bobs in bottom over ets pad. The 1st section is young birds plus 12 widowhood hen boxes in corridor. The 2nd Section 12 widowhood cocks, the 3rd section 12 natural pair, the 4th section stock. Will have a radio on all the time in the widowhood or natural cocks section to stop the natural pigeons disturbing the widowhood cocks.The key questions I have for the natural fliers on here are:- 1. Do you feel it’s best to rear young birds prior to racing and if so how many 1 or 2? 2. How do you decide your first pairing dates? As an example in my case our 1st race is the first week in April which is stupidly early (80 miles from Wakefield). The races I’m aiming for the channel ones which in the North East we generally have Channel, Inland, Channel on alternate weeks. 1st channel race this year was 24/05/14. Now I know due to laying etc I won’t hit all races with the hens and I will have to sit and plan my races with the hens to have them in nesting states where I can get them ready for the races but just after an idea of when people pair. In the North East the traditional date was 14th February to pair the channel team. 3. Feeding as they are channel birds and on natural I’m guessing they need good bait with no breaking down etc. Would feeding be along the lines of breeding mixture until racing starts, maybe halfy half with barley to keep weight off them when on eggs. Then back on to straight breeding mix for rearing then for racing a good quality widowhood mixture with no breaking down plus sunflower hearts for the longer water races? 4 .Any general advice you may have for racing a team on natural 5. Why do you race natural and what do you think are the key advantages over widowhood pigeons? 6. What are the disadvantages of natural and have you any tricks/tips to counter them? Many thanks for any responses I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Below is our old bird programme for this season as an idea to what we normally race. Most channel fliers like to get them Eastbourne as a prep race then miss a week and into the first channel race and then the cycle is miss a inland race, send to channel, miss an inland race send to the channel etc. Apart from a lot of roundabout hens men send the hens every week. 05/04/2014 WAKEFIELD12/04/2014 NEWARK19/04/2014 MELTON MOWBRAY26/04/2014 PETERBROUGH03/05/2014 ST.ALBANS10/05/2014 EASTBOURNE NAT17/05/2014 PETERBROUGH24/05/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS31/05/2014 ST.ALBANS07/06/2014 QUEENS CUP14/06/2014 MAIDSTONE NAT20/06/2014 BOURGES21/06/2014 ST.ALBANS YEARLING NAT28/06/2014 ST.ALBANS05/07/2014 ARRAS12/07/2014 ST. ALBANS19/07/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Hi all just after some natural fliers advice for what I’m planning for next season. Have 24 young birds left to race next season. Will have a team of 12 widowhood cocks for inland and these will be fed, trained and raced on a classic widowhood system with 12 hens staying at home boxed up for them. These will do me for inland racing with maybe towards the end of the season being repaired for the final channel race. The 12 hens I want to race on the natural system and they are all of channel origin bred through George Wandless of Hetton’s pigeons with a few other odds and sods such as Alan White of Hetton’s pigeons in there. These birds as yearlings will be raced up to Rheims which is around 447 miles to me and Arras which is around 330 miles mark. They will be destined for Bourges as 2 year olds which is 550 miles. Now I know people will say race them widowhood, celibate, roundabout etc. but I’m not really interested as I want to race them natural for three reasons really:- 1. Stopping hens going lesbian on me as I’ve a tendency to be a bit heavy on the feed with hens 2.The missus has a new job which involves her going to work 20 miles away every day. Its training back over from the north instead of the south but hey for old birds especially channel bird’s trainings training. Small basket in the back of her car she chucks them when she gets to work and by the time they back all I have to do is trap them feed up take the bairn to nursery and then work. The widowhood cocks will be exercised and trapped in by the time the hens are back. This will save me an hour on the morning of exercising the hens which I would have to do if they were celibate/roundabout. The natural hens will be exercised an hour on the night. 3.For long distance natural still seems to be favoured by a lot of fliers especially in Scotland so it must have its advantages. Plus when I first started racing pigeons I raced natural and had success with it inland and enjoyed the method even though form came in cycles. My loft layout is closed in, pantile roof with good ventilation with 4 sections with a corridor throughout and polycarb front . Solid plywood partitions separate the sections. Each section has its own external sliding door for trapping into corridor then through section door bobs in bottom over ets pad. The 1st section is young birds plus 12 widowhood hen boxes in corridor. The 2nd Section 12 widowhood cocks, the 3rd section 12 natural pair, the 4th section stock. Will have a radio on all the time in the widowhood or natural cocks section to stop the natural pigeons disturbing the widowhood cocks. The key questions I have for the natural fliers on here are:- 1. Do you feel it’s best to rear young birds prior to racing and if so how many 1 or 2? 2. How do you decide your first pairing dates? As an example in my case our 1st race is the first week in April which is stupidly early (80 miles from Wakefield). The races I’m aiming for the channel ones which in the North East we generally have Channel, Inland, Channel on alternate weeks. 1st channel race this year was 24/05/14. Now I know due to laying etc I won’t hit all races with the hens and I will have to sit and plan my races with the hens to have them in nesting states where I can get them ready for the races but just after an idea of when people pair. In the North East the traditional date was 14th February to pair the channel team. 3. Feeding as they are channel birds and on natural I’m guessing they need good bait with no breaking down etc. Would feeding be along the lines of breeding mixture until racing starts, maybe halfy half with barley to keep weight off them when on eggs. Then back on to straight breeding mix for rearing then for racing a good quality widowhood mixture with no breaking down plus sunflower hearts for the longer water races? 4 .Any general advice you may have for racing a team on natural 5. Why do you race natural and what do you think are the key advantages over widowhood pigeons? 6. What are the disadvantages of natural and have you any tricks/tips to counter them? Many thanks for any responses I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 ill try my best for you m8 first of all know your pigeon they are all different and like different nesting conditions judge them on how they were sitting on past results or when they look and handle there best but also when they are at there keenests this can be sitting 8 days 11 days to chipping or a small youngster up to 5days or a big youngster and going back to nest and looking at the hen and dont be kidded only hens like chipping or small youngsters some cocks love this to as ive said know your pigeon and when its at its best and keenest paring for the distance not before the 17th of march or later paring on or about this date gives me two pair of youngsters off my best birds and the third pair what ever age switched under feeders set down to catch them 2 sets of youngsters are reared by the birds going to the race or one each nest if you wish this puts the pair just dropping there third flight for the main race or halfway up i am now of the opinion it makes no difference what you feed them early on but three weeks before the race any good mixture with lots of good maze as a base and add the fats to it i use gerry plus and hemp seed with conditioner as much as they want whats the benifits of natural racing you ask for me its getting six youngsters off my best birds in a natural condition and still winning with the pairents downfalls you only get 3 races out them at best because of the moult but each bird going to 1 2 or 3 500 plus races is fine by me hope this helps you make up your mind and gives you some ideas but again this is only my opinion good luck to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dal2 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 ill try my best for you m8 first of all know your pigeon they are all different and like different nesting conditions judge them on how they were sitting on past results or when they look and handle there best but also when they are at there keenests this can be sitting 8 days 11 days to chipping or a small youngster up to 5days or a big youngster and going back to nest and looking at the hen and dont be kidded only hens like chipping or small youngsters some cocks love this to as ive said know your pigeon and when its at its best and keenest paring for the distance not before the 17th of march or later paring on or about this date gives me two pair of youngsters off my best birds and the third pair what ever age switched under feeders set down to catch them 2 sets of youngsters are reared by the birds going to the race or one each nest if you wish this puts the pair just dropping there third flight for the main race or halfway up i am now of the opinion it makes no difference what you feed them early on but three weeks before the race any good mixture with lots of good maze as a base and add the fats to it i use gerry plus and hemp seed with conditioner as much as they want whats the benifits of natural racing you ask for me its getting six youngsters off my best birds in a natural condition and still winning with the pairents downfalls you only get 3 races out them at best because of the moult but each bird going to 1 2 or 3 500 plus races is fine by me hope this helps you make up your mind and gives you some ideas but again this is only my opinion good luck to you I pair in january then bring them back together three weeks before chosen race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I pair in january then bring them back together three weeks before chosen raceSo yours go in 5 or six day eggs mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 So yours go in 5 or six day eggs mate? They lay quick at that time of year, they'll be away on at least 10 day eggs on day of basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks Walter thats a great help. As you pair up 17th March that would mean with our race programme if I did the same they would be racing while rearing a young bird meaning programme should look something like this:- 17th March 10 days to lay 28/03/14 05/04/2014 WAKEFIELD - Sent on 8 day eggs 12/04/2014 NEWARK - Sent on 15 day eggs 19/04/2014 MELTON MOWBRAY -Sent on 3 day YB 26/04/2014 PETERBROUGH - Sent on 10 day YB 03/05/2014 ST.ALBANS - Sent on 17 Day YB 10/05/2014 EASTBOURNE NAT - 24 Day Young YB 17/05/2014 PETERBROUGH 24/05/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS 31/05/2014 ST.ALBANS 07/06/2014 QUEENS CUP 14/06/2014 MAIDSTONE NAT 20/06/2014 BOURGES 21/06/2014 ST.ALBANS YEARLING NAT 28/06/2014 ST.ALBANS 05/07/2014 ARRAS 12/07/2014 ST. ALBANS 19/07/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS Now can you still send while they are rearing and how does that affect condition on big young birds? Before when I dabbled with natural I reared YBS in normal way then got them going on second round of eggs and would get to chipping out and send them on little squabs etc. Your pairing date is good in that I would be get them on eggs and train for first race and get early sprint races out the way as training and possibly even get a card or two and learn what nest condition moviates them. Im just concerned about rearing young bird when racing and how it ties in? Cocks arent going to be raced so that will help the hens a little bit. That paring date would mean doing eastbourne which is a stiff race on quite a big YB though. Unless I kept the hens out of the way in YB end and trained them from there back to the cocks and YB. Then I have peterborough and our first channel race from ARRAs which I would have to get some of the squad too but if I took the YB's off at 24 days and they had a fortnight of driving they would be ready to lay and no good unless i again put them in YB end? then its a sprint race and then queens cup which at rheims is a test for a yearlings first channel race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks Walter thats a great help. As you pair up 17th March that would mean with our race programme if I did the same they would be racing while rearing a young bird meaning programme should look something like this:- 17th March 10 days to lay 28/03/14 05/04/2014 WAKEFIELD - Sent on 8 day eggs 12/04/2014 NEWARK - Sent on 15 day eggs 19/04/2014 MELTON MOWBRAY -Sent on 3 day YB 26/04/2014 PETERBROUGH - Sent on 10 day YB 03/05/2014 ST.ALBANS - Sent on 17 Day YB 10/05/2014 EASTBOURNE NAT - 24 Day Young YB 17/05/2014 PETERBROUGH 24/05/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS 31/05/2014 ST.ALBANS 07/06/2014 QUEENS CUP 14/06/2014 MAIDSTONE NAT 20/06/2014 BOURGES 21/06/2014 ST.ALBANS YEARLING NAT 28/06/2014 ST.ALBANS 05/07/2014 ARRAS 12/07/2014 ST. ALBANS 19/07/2014 LILLERS/ARRAS Now can you still send while they are rearing and how does that affect condition on big young birds? Before when I dabbled with natural I reared YBS in normal way then got them going on second round of eggs and would get to chipping out and send them on little squabs etc. Your pairing date is good in that I would be get them on eggs and train for first race and get early sprint races out the way as training and possibly even get a card or two and learn what nest condition moviates them. Im just concerned about rearing young bird when racing and how it ties in? Cocks arent going to be raced so that will help the hens a little bit. That paring date would mean doing eastbourne which is a stiff race on quite a big YB though. Unless I kept the hens out of the way in YB end and trained them from there back to the cocks and YB. Then I have peterborough and our first channel race from ARRAs which I would have to get some of the squad too but if I took the YB's off at 24 days and they had a fortnight of driving they would be ready to lay and no good unless i again put them in YB end? then its a sprint race and then queens cup which at rheims is a test for a yearlings first channel race.i pick 4 races paulo no more with the last or 4th race 260 miles about two weeks before the main event if the hens on big yb put her in another section for 2 or 3 days and she will put weight back on and its incentive not being able to feed the yb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.D. Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Hi all just after some natural fliers advice for what I’m planning for next season. Have 24 young birds left to race next season. Will have a team of 12 widowhood cocks for inland and these will be fed, trained and raced on a classic widowhood system with 12 hens staying at home boxed up for them. These will do me for inland racing with maybe towards the end of the season being repaired for the final channel race. The 12 hens I want to race on the natural system and they are all of channel origin bred through George Wandless of Hetton’s pigeons with a few other odds and sods such as Alan White of Hetton’s pigeons in there. These birds as yearlings will be raced up to Rheims which is around 447 miles to me and Arras which is around 330 miles mark. They will be destined for Bourges as 2 year olds which is 550 miles. Now I know people will say race them widowhood, celibate, roundabout etc. but I’m not really interested as I want to race them natural for three reasons really:- 1. Stopping hens going lesbian on me as I’ve a tendency to be a bit heavy on the feed with hens 2.The missus has a new job which involves her going to work 20 miles away every day. Its training back over from the north instead of the south but hey for old birds especially channel bird’s trainings training. Small basket in the back of her car she chucks them when she gets to work and by the time they back all I have to do is trap them feed up take the bairn to nursery and then work. The widowhood cocks will be exercised and trapped in by the time the hens are back. This will save me an hour on the morning of exercising the hens which I would have to do if they were celibate/roundabout. The natural hens will be exercised an hour on the night. 3.For long distance natural still seems to be favoured by a lot of fliers especially in Scotland so it must have its advantages. Plus when I first started racing pigeons I raced natural and had success with it inland and enjoyed the method even though form came in cycles. My loft layout is closed in, pantile roof with good ventilation with 4 sections with a corridor throughout and polycarb front . Solid plywood partitions separate the sections. Each section has its own external sliding door for trapping into corridor then through section door bobs in bottom over ets pad. The 1st section is young birds plus 12 widowhood hen boxes in corridor. The 2nd Section 12 widowhood cocks, the 3rd section 12 natural pair, the 4th section stock. Will have a radio on all the time in the widowhood or natural cocks section to stop the natural pigeons disturbing the widowhood cocks. The key questions I have for the natural fliers on here are:- 1. Do you feel it’s best to rear young birds prior to racing and if so how many 1 or 2? 2. How do you decide your first pairing dates? As an example in my case our 1st race is the first week in April which is stupidly early (80 miles from Wakefield). The races I’m aiming for the channel ones which in the North East we generally have Channel, Inland, Channel on alternate weeks. 1st channel race this year was 24/05/14. Now I know due to laying etc I won’t hit all races with the hens and I will have to sit and plan my races with the hens to have them in nesting states where I can get them ready for the races but just after an idea of when people pair. In the North East the traditional date was 14th February to pair the channel team. 3. Feeding as they are channel birds and on natural I’m guessing they need good bait with no breaking down etc. Would feeding be along the lines of breeding mixture until racing starts, maybe halfy half with barley to keep weight off them when on eggs. Then back on to straight breeding mix for rearing then for racing a good quality widowhood mixture with no breaking down plus sunflower hearts for the longer water races? 4 .Any general advice you may have for racing a team on natural 5. Why do you race natural and what do you think are the key advantages over widowhood pigeons? 6. What are the disadvantages of natural and have you any tricks/tips to counter them? Many thanks for any responses I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.D. Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I once asked a unc flyer the same questions and he told me that 2 of the good flyers he knew did the following, 1,flew the first 4 races celibate, then paired up for the channel races,counting back so they would be on a small yb going to their main race. 2,the other flew natural for the first 4-6 races then flew widowhood for the channel races.Both men had good results,which one was better can't say?I can only tell you what I do myself,or try to. I try to pair as late as possible and get them fit flying around the loft before pairing up,missing the April races and start in May. Our 1st channel race is end of May so they might only have 2-3 inland races before they go.The problem with plans and natural flying is if like this year we had a holdover nearly every channel race,by the time they came back the cock sitting had risen or the hen didn't want to on returning. I ended up splitting the whole lot for 2 weeks then repairing for the following channel race.Hope this helps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonman007 Posted December 17, 2021 Report Share Posted December 17, 2021 I realise this is an old post but looking for some info on natural. Hoping to restart with pigeons in May on a very small scale. 8ft x 5 loft Going forwards I like the idea of natural. I'll only have a small one section loft with aviary attached. If the birds are together all year round will I have probs with them breeding all the time? At the moment I'm not wanting to race but if I did in the future it would be a with a tilt at the longer races and I'm wondering if only having 1 section will he a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapper756 Posted December 17, 2021 Report Share Posted December 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, pigeonman007 said: I realise this is an old post but looking for some info on natural. Hoping to restart with pigeons in May on a very small scale. 8ft x 5 loft Going forwards I like the idea of natural. I'll only have a small one section loft with aviary attached. If the birds are together all year round will I have probs with them breeding all the time? At the moment I'm not wanting to race but if I did in the future it would be a with a tilt at the longer races and I'm wondering if only having 1 section will he a problem Good luck, hopefully some of the Basics members will share some advice 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCN Posted December 17, 2021 Report Share Posted December 17, 2021 Birds if left will continue to breed year round which is no use, when your race season finishes remove bowls and nesting materials and close off the nest boxes this should deter them and allow them to moult through... you could split your hens into your avairy and leave the cocks in the loft. Biggest problem would be overcrowding in the small set up. Best if luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy sqat Posted December 17, 2021 Report Share Posted December 17, 2021 for the last 2 year i havnt separated the birds, after racing the bowls are out , the feed reduced to an ounce per bird and come the first frost they dont nest, i have an open slatted front to the loft so the doos know when the winter is coming, hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonman007 Posted December 22, 2021 Report Share Posted December 22, 2021 Hi all, Thank you for the replies. I will give it some thought. I could have a 12 x 5 shed divided to give 2 sections and have a smaller aviary area. I'm only really looking to keep 4 pairs max and breed no more than 8 per year, train them and see what's still there at the end. I would consider racing later on, or maybe if I can find a local club that does organised training tosses to get me eased in slowly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Burgess Posted December 22, 2021 Report Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, pigeonman007 said: Hi all, Thank you for the replies. I will give it some thought. I could have a 12 x 5 shed divided to give 2 sections and have a smaller aviary area. I'm only really looking to keep 4 pairs max and breed no more than 8 per year, train them and see what's still there at the end. I would consider racing later on, or maybe if I can find a local club that does organised training tosses to get me eased in slowly very best of luck in whatever you do decide on . i do feel 4 pairs may not be enough tho jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonman007 Posted December 22, 2021 Report Share Posted December 22, 2021 Thank you. Will give it all some thought. Not moving till May so I have a few months to think through. Only really looking for a back garden hobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Burgess Posted December 22, 2021 Report Share Posted December 22, 2021 i would visit a few local lofts when you move and just ask how they cope with losses . it may help you make a decision, again , good luck . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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