Holdovers

[peter pandy]

In this day and age with the benefit of weather stations etc, Are we doing the birds a disservice by not having holdovers ?. The reasoning regarding this comment was discussed at length last night where in the past the birds went on the Friday night regardless and in the event of a holdover situation they learnt to drink or if not they were within flying distance of home where if they were observed on arrival those that went directly to the drinker were those who had to be taught by other methods to take water on a transporter. The situation that is at present where forecasts rule out a Saturday liberation marking occurs when a liberation is more favourable which saves the fancier costs BUT does not educate the birds. Its the usual story of making transportation as cheap as possible to the detriment of the birds. To take this subject a little further !. When National birds are basketed they are confined for a minimum 2 days plus more in a holdover and if they have no experince of drinking in a basket then losses are at their greatest. Perhaps in hindsight it would benefit birds to be basketed on a transporter during the winter months to condition them into using the drinkers. You never know as it might just cut down losses.

[blue pied]

In this day and age with the benefit of weather stations etc, Are we doing the birds a disservice by not having holdovers ?. The reasoning regarding this comment was discussed at length last night where in the past the birds went on the Friday night regardless and in the event of a holdover situation they learnt to drink or if not they were within flying distance of home where if they were observed on arrival those that went directly to the drinker were those who had to be taught by other methods to take water on a transporter. The situation that is at present where forecasts rule out a Saturday liberation marking occurs when a liberation is more favourable which saves the fancier costs BUT does not educate the birds. Its the usual story of making transportation as cheap as possible to the detriment of the birds. To take this subject a little further !. When National birds are basketed they are confined for a minimum 2 days plus more in a holdover and if they have no experince of drinking in a basket then losses are at their greatest. Perhaps in hindsight it would benefit birds to be basketed on a transporter during the winter months to condition them into using the drinkers. You never know as it might just cut down losses.

not a chance! wouldnt help much/at all imo!

[JohnQuinn]

In this day and age with the benefit of weather stations etc, Are we doing the birds a disservice by not having holdovers ?. The reasoning regarding this comment was discussed at length last night where in the past the birds went on the Friday night regardless and in the event of a holdover situation they learnt to drink or if not they were within flying distance of home where if they were observed on arrival those that went directly to the drinker were those who had to be taught by other methods to take water on a transporter. The situation that is at present where forecasts rule out a Saturday liberation marking occurs when a liberation is more favourable which saves the fancier costs BUT does not educate the birds. Its the usual story of making transportation as cheap as possible to the detriment of the birds. To take this subject a little further !. When National birds are basketed they are confined for a minimum 2 days plus more in a holdover and if they have no experince of drinking in a basket then losses are at their greatest. Perhaps in hindsight it would benefit birds to be basketed on a transporter during the winter months to condition them into using the drinkers. You never know as it might just cut down losses.

 

I fear that the fancier needs more education than the birds Peter. All birds should be basket trained as Yb's and if fanciers can't be bothered to educate their own birds its hardly fair asking others to have their doos heldover just to help out other lazy men. jmo!!

[We man]

In this day and age with the benefit of weather stations etc, Are we doing the birds a disservice by not having holdovers ?. The reasoning regarding this comment was discussed at length last night where in the past the birds went on the Friday night regardless and in the event of a holdover situation they learnt to drink or if not they were within flying distance of home where if they were observed on arrival those that went directly to the drinker were those who had to be taught by other methods to take water on a transporter. The situation that is at present where forecasts rule out a Saturday liberation marking occurs when a liberation is more favourable which saves the fancier costs BUT does not educate the birds. Its the usual story of making transportation as cheap as possible to the detriment of the birds. To take this subject a little further !. When National birds are basketed they are confined for a minimum 2 days plus more in a holdover and if they have no experince of drinking in a basket then losses are at their greatest. Perhaps in hindsight it would benefit birds to be basketed on a transporter during the winter months to condition them into using the drinkers. You never know as it might just cut down losses.

Think that's a very good idea and would support it,OMO.

[Tony C]

Many years ago a convoyer who was held in high regard believed young birds in the feds first two races should undergo enforced holdovers. We were told hardly any youngsters went for water (Friday basket Saturday lib) when offered no matter how well they were basket trained.

[peter pandy]

I fear that the fancier needs more education than the birds Peter. All birds should be basket trained as Yb's and if fanciers can't be bothered to educate their own birds its hardly fair asking others to have their doos heldover just to help out other lazy men. jmo!!

 

Hi John, Perhaps you could elaborate on basket training birds to drink !! ?.

[JohnQuinn]

Many years ago a convoyer who was held in high regard believed young birds in the feds first two races should undergo enforced holdovers. We were told hardly any youngsters went for water (Friday basket Saturday lib) when offered no matter how well they were basket trained.

 

The norm is for ALL! to say they trained their doos in the basket Tony, but experience tells me that very FEW actually take the trouble to do it. I was in a fanciers loft recently who bought 2 new crates from Geraldy so his birds drink from the same crates our Fed use, he also set up his drinkers in the loft behind Silver painted dowels that replicate the crates. He is one of the Very Top fanciers around and it is that attention to detail that helps his birds keep him at the top, VERY VERY few will take that kind or step to prepare their doos for every event they encounter in the transporters. again jmo!!

 

Hi John, Perhaps you could elaborate on basket training birds to drink !! ?.

 

Keep them in the basket for a MINIMUM of 3 days eating and drinking, 5 days is better though. jmo.

[peter pandy]

The norm is for ALL! to say they trained their doos in the basket Tony, but experience tells me that very FEW actually take the trouble to do it. I was in a fanciers loft recently who bought 2 new crates from Geraldy so his birds drink from the same crates our Fed use, he also set up his drinkers in the loft behind Silver painted dowels that replicate the crates. He is one of the Very Top fanciers around and it is that attention to detail that helps his birds keep him at the top, VERY VERY few will take that kind or step to prepare their doos for every event they encounter in the transporters. again jmo!!

 

 

 

Keep them in the basket for a MINIMUM of 3 days eating and drinking, 5 days is better though. jmo.

 

 

Done it all in the past John, putting 15 birds in each race pannier for 7 days. Never apart from the odd one took a drink after a feed and never had to top up But every 12 hours splashed water into the drinkers. No disrespect but you concluded this was JYO rather than hard facts on HOW to encourage them to drink.

[alex young]

Just something I've always done,on race days during the old bird season basket the yb's birds and put on the drinkers.Some do drink some don't, after doing this a few times I then feed the yb's before basketing,then after a while put the drinkers on,most will drink but you still need to do it a few times as some don't get the hang of it right away.In the club I race in we put the drinkers on when basketing for a race and a lot of birds will drink as soon as they get in the basket.Having said that, on return this week most of my birds were gagging for water when I know they will drink while in the basket.

[JohnQuinn]

Yes it is Jmo, but ye'll be hard pushed to tell me it disnae work Peter, so Imo it is a Fact if you train them as stated, the reason they don't come home has nothing to do with access to water in the transporter or lack of know how in the baskets.!! 15 doos doesn't reflect the 28 doos in a basket either Peter so IMO 15 was wasting your time somewhat.

[peter pandy]

Just something I've always done,on race days during the old bird season basket the yb's birds and put on the drinkers.Some do drink some don't, after doing this a few times I then feed the yb's before basketing,then after a while put the drinkers on,most will drink but you still need to do it a few times as some don't get the hang of it right away.In the club I race in we put the drinkers on when basketing for a race and a lot of birds will drink as soon as they get in the basket.Having said that, on return this week most of my birds were gagging for water when I know they will drink while in the basket.

 

A club I visit pretty regular do the same and normally have 4 baskets for cocks and 4 for hens laid out on trstle tables with drinkers and our observations were, natural cocks lifted off nests which are vey few would take a drink but hens never dipped their beaks.

[peter pandy]

Yes it is Jmo, but ye'll be hard pushed to tell me it disnae work Peter, so Imo it is a Fact if you train them as stated, the reason they don't come home has nothing to do with access to water in the transporter or lack of know how in the baskets.!! 15 doos doesn't reflect the 28 doos in a basket either Peter so IMO 15 was wasting your time somewhat.

 

I tried it with 25 in a pannier John and they still did not drink and that was why I tried it the following year with 15.

[JohnQuinn]

I tried it with 25 in a pannier John and they still did not drink and that was why I tried it the following year with 15.

 

Ye need brainier doos then Peter

[peter pandy]

Thats funny John because the same thought has been going roon ma heid

[peter pandy]

Still on the subject a local fancier purloined a couple of old Fed baskets and removed the backs from them and put drinkers on them inside the loft, He then filled the drinkers with blue baking died water and after 7 days checked out all his birds and was quite dismayed to find that less than 10% had the blue dye in their mouths.

[JohnQuinn]

Given the variety of answers above would holdovers really benifit any doos in the basket?

[Rebus]

Drinkers filled after race marking in our club and most take a drink including young birds so don't think there is a problem as long as they have access to water they will find it .

[frankdooman]

I think wee are trying to be too clever here doo,s aren't daft well most any way if thirsty they will go to the drinkers well the clever ones the rest won't matter what you do they won't take it in just look at your y birds sometime they take ages to learn to go in the bath some time they use it right away

[eastcoaster]

The norm is for ALL! to say they trained their doos in the basket Tony, but experience tells me that very FEW actually take the trouble to do it. I was in a fanciers loft recently who bought 2 new crates from Geraldy so his birds drink from the same crates our Fed use, he also set up his drinkers in the loft behind Silver painted dowels that replicate the crates. He is one of the Very Top fanciers around and it is that attention to detail that helps his birds keep him at the top, VERY VERY few will take that kind or step to prepare their doos for every event they encounter in the transporters. again jmo!!

 

 

 

Keep them in the basket for a MINIMUM of 3 days eating and drinking, 5 days is better though. jmo.

Spoke to this fancier on Sunday and he confirms what I have witnessed myself that a lot more birds go to the drinkers on the geraldy baskets than I ever seen going to wicker ones as the geraldy baskets let in a lot more light than wicker . We put our club geraldy baskets out side on a Friday with the drinkers up and you would be amazed how many take a drink from them .

Basket training ybs can help but don't think all the birds can get to the drinker .

[walterboswell59]

i put an old race basket on the front of the loft and hang drinkers on with seed in them for a few days when i can see they have no fear of poking there heads out to eat i then add water with a little seed in it when they go for the seed they find the water saw on here another fancier found this works to

[peter pandy]

That will be worth trying Wattie. Cheers.

[JohnQuinn]

Given the variety of answers above would holdovers really benifit any doos in the basket?

 

????

[dal2]

I am lazy am afraid. Have done it sporadically but not every yea by a long way

[yeboah]

Tens of thousands of peregrine falcons only reason

End Off

[moscow master]

Tens of thousands of peregrine falcons only reason

End Off

you can guarantee that mick!!! the odd time its human error bad weather clashing etc but the amount of doos returning injured tells you what the problem is end of story as for basket training ive never done it in 23 years and have just as good a returns and results as people that do a thirsty bird will go to water simple as that give your birds some credit their not stupid!!