Flying Problem

[swilcox]

Complexed Problem with flying

 

I have a problem with a small percentage of my cocks and would appreciate any thoughts.

At the end of Feb when I took the young and hens away I started to exercise my cocks, I have a lot of hawk problems both Sparrow Hawk and Peregrine and during exercise my cocks fly around 20-25 mins very close to the loft and then when they land every 3 minutes then hammer off the loft in a condition of panic, even if it’s just a wood pigeon flying over head.

 

After about 5 days of flying out a 2 year old developed a problem flying, he is in a top box and managed to get up there but flew lopsided!! I then had my birds tested and the vet came back with a slight worm count and after a week a swab showed some e-coli developing along with streptococcus so I treated all my race cocks, hens and partners with amoxicillin for 10 days! The birds tested negative to paratyphus/salmonella.

 

On the 9th day of treatment a yearling cock again could not fly up to his box, he had exercised in the morning normally yet come tea time could not fly and then the next day again another yearling in a different loft again went lopsided and struggled to fly. Now on each occasion the condition of the pigeons is absolutely fine and the dropping are good, they coo and chase about but cannot fly!! The first cock has now recovered and started to fly again.

It’s interesting that I fly a small team of hens and I have never had a problem with them, maybe because there are fewer of them.!!

 

This morning I let my cocks out as normall and they all took to the sky ok, they flew for 20-25 mins but very close to the loft, just above the houses and very close to the trees, they landed and they flew off every 3 minutes at high speed for about 20 more minutes!! When I got them in again I saw a yearling struggle to fly.

 

I have 60 widows and thats now 4 affected over a 2 month period, is it a health problem or are the birds pulling their muscle and damaging their wings??

 

In the last week I have been training 75 pigeons from 10, 15, 20, 25 miles and on each occasion I had them all home except for one pigeon!! Are they developing problems flying during the flight?

 

May I add that these pigeons reared a near perfect round of ybs and from 100 young not one bird has gone down.

 

Kind Regards

Stuart Wilcox

[OLDYELLOW]

not been funny but muscle problems are usually calcium linked or a lack of b12 can cause cramps i would add some live yoghurt to there feed and brewers yeast , make up there feed one meal a head and give them it , hopefully that should sort you out and e-coli oregio - stim is good

[THE FIFER]

get calcium tablets from the chemist.

[lanarkshire lad]

Complexed Problem with flying

 

I have a problem with a small percentage of my cocks and would appreciate any thoughts.

At the end of Feb when I took the young and hens away I started to exercise my cocks, I have a lot of hawk problems both Sparrow Hawk and Peregrine and during exercise my cocks fly around 20-25 mins very close to the loft and then when they land every 3 minutes then hammer off the loft in a condition of panic, even if it’s just a wood pigeon flying over head.

 

After about 5 days of flying out a 2 year old developed a problem flying, he is in a top box and managed to get up there but flew lopsided!! I then had my birds tested and the vet came back with a slight worm count and after a week a swab showed some e-coli developing along with streptococcus so I treated all my race cocks, hens and partners with amoxicillin for 10 days! The birds tested negative to paratyphus/salmonella.

 

On the 9th day of treatment a yearling cock again could not fly up to his box, he had exercised in the morning normally yet come tea time could not fly and then the next day again another yearling in a different loft again went lopsided and struggled to fly. Now on each occasion the condition of the pigeons is absolutely fine and the dropping are good, they coo and chase about but cannot fly!! The first cock has now recovered and started to fly again.

It’s interesting that I fly a small team of hens and I have never had a problem with them, maybe because there are fewer of them.!!

 

This morning I let my cocks out as normall and they all took to the sky ok, they flew for 20-25 mins but very close to the loft, just above the houses and very close to the trees, they landed and they flew off every 3 minutes at high speed for about 20 more minutes!! When I got them in again I saw a yearling struggle to fly.

 

I have 60 widows and thats now 4 affected over a 2 month period, is it a health problem or are the birds pulling their muscle and damaging their wings??

 

In the last week I have been training 75 pigeons from 10, 15, 20, 25 miles and on each occasion I had them all home except for one pigeon!! Are they developing problems flying during the flight?

 

May I add that these pigeons reared a near perfect round of ybs and from 100 young not one bird has gone down.

 

Kind Regards

Stuart Wilcox

Bert Braspenning has writen a small piece in the BHW regarding similar problems.He thinks its related to the pigeons being locked up for too long in the winter months? I had two nestmates showing the same symtoms as your pigeons.I put them in the bin thinking it is a weekness in the Family???It is a complex issue as the same problem you are having can be caused by different things with different pigeons.This E Coli bacteria is causing lots of different problems behind the scenes.JMO

[swilcox]

Bert Braspenning has writen a small piece in the BHW regarding similar problems.He thinks its related to the pigeons being locked up for too long in the winter months? I had two nestmates showing the same symtoms as your pigeons.I put them in the bin thinking it is a weekness in the Family???It is a complex issue as the same problem you are having can be caused by different things with different pigeons.This E Coli bacteria is causing lots of different problems behind the scenes.JMO

 

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for the reply, its true that the birds do get locked up from August through to Feb as there is just such a high risk of Peregrine and Sparrowhawk attacks!! a fair few have emailed to say that have the same problems!!

 

Stu

[just ask me]

id by reading the above its a muscle problem for the reasons you say or even a nerve hit from a misplaced needle

[swilcox]

It does seem like a muscle problem and the birds slightly hold the wing up when resting!! The pigeons were injected for paramyxo back in December so it can be that!!

[just ask me]

well if its the muscle problem it will just be a matter of taking it slow with them

 

all the best with it noting worse than problems this time of the year

[Guest IB]

It does seem like a muscle problem and the birds slightly hold the wing up when resting!! The pigeons were injected for paramyxo back in December so it can be that!!

 

Is it one wing butt that is held high at the shoulder?

[swilcox]

IB yes it is!!

 

As i have said they have tested negative for Parathyphus and Salmonelia and recieved a treatment of Amoxiclian to clear what Streptoccocus may be present.

 

Stuart

[Tony C]

Complexed Problem with flying

 

I have a problem with a small percentage of my cocks and would appreciate any thoughts.

At the end of Feb when I took the young and hens away I started to exercise my cocks, I have a lot of hawk problems both Sparrow Hawk and Peregrine and during exercise my cocks fly around 20-25 mins very close to the loft and then when they land every 3 minutes then hammer off the loft in a condition of panic, even if it’s just a wood pigeon flying over head.

 

After about 5 days of flying out a 2 year old developed a problem flying, he is in a top box and managed to get up there but flew lopsided!! I then had my birds tested and the vet came back with a slight worm count and after a week a swab showed some e-coli developing along with streptococcus so I treated all my race cocks, hens and partners with amoxicillin for 10 days! The birds tested negative to paratyphus/salmonella.

 

On the 9th day of treatment a yearling cock again could not fly up to his box, he had exercised in the morning normally yet come tea time could not fly and then the next day again another yearling in a different loft again went lopsided and struggled to fly. Now on each occasion the condition of the pigeons is absolutely fine and the dropping are good, they coo and chase about but cannot fly!! The first cock has now recovered and started to fly again.

It’s interesting that I fly a small team of hens and I have never had a problem with them, maybe because there are fewer of them.!!

 

This morning I let my cocks out as normall and they all took to the sky ok, they flew for 20-25 mins but very close to the loft, just above the houses and very close to the trees, they landed and they flew off every 3 minutes at high speed for about 20 more minutes!! When I got them in again I saw a yearling struggle to fly.

 

I have 60 widows and thats now 4 affected over a 2 month period, is it a health problem or are the birds pulling their muscle and damaging their wings??

 

In the last week I have been training 75 pigeons from 10, 15, 20, 25 miles and on each occasion I had them all home except for one pigeon!! Are they developing problems flying during the flight?

 

May I add that these pigeons reared a near perfect round of ybs and from 100 young not one bird has gone down.

 

Kind Regards

Stuart Wilcox

 

If my memory serves me right you also posted something along these lines last year (lame wing, negative test result for paratyphoid). My guess is that its a bacterial problem and like Paratyphoid & Streptococci it works its way into the wing butt joints.

 

 

 

I don’t know if its possible but could a vet take samples of tissue in and around an effected wing joint and grow cultures to identify the problem? This is the road I’d go down if a vet could do such a thing.

[ovy1255]

i posted that this problem was rife in the n/east and the problem i was told was strepticocle and a culture needed to be done to treat with right medication.

sorry i carnt help any more.

was also told pigeons would fly off and stop in mid air fall out of the sky as if shot or hit a wall?

[DJWa]

i posted that this problem was rife in the n/east and the problem i was told was strepticocle and a culture needed to be done to treat with right medication.

sorry i carnt help any more.

was also told pigeons would fly off and stop in mid air fall out of the sky as if shot or hit a wall?

 

ive heard of the birds dropping out the sky

and when picked up were as hard as a brick

 

had no idea as to the cause neither did the guy who told me about it

he said he was training a few fanciers birds and was watching them clear

when 2 birds just dropped out of the sky

[Guest IB]

IB yes it is!!

 

As i have said they have tested negative for Parathyphus and Salmonelia and recieved a treatment of Amoxiclian to clear what Streptoccocus may be present.

 

Stuart

 

Going by my own experience with a wing injury that needed stitched, (the bird wasn't allowed to use the wing for 7 days - until the wound healed) and he was confined to his box, your problem is more likely to be 'stiffness' caused by the winter confinement.

 

After a prearranged return visit to the vet on the Friday I was told to work to get the bird back on the wing by the Tuesday, otherwise (the techy bit: the ligament that runs along the edge of the wing, between the shoulder and barsterd wing, would lose elasticity, and the bird would lose aerodynamic shape of its wing preventing it flying properly). For a while afterwards, when he flew, one wing could be seen beating faster than the injured one and on landing he held the wing butt just above and slightly away from the shoulder - I got the impression it was 'sore' working that tightness off. It took a while for 'the elastic band' to slacken off, and his further confinement over the winter hasn't helped.

[geordie1234]

This sounds like stiffness to me

 

I know im fairly a novice but i did have theif pouters when i was younger and knew a lot of guys who were involved in them too! for youz who dont know about the thief pouters they are kept in individual pens and cant flap there wings most of the time and when in the moult some doomen never put there doos out or bad weather etc and before you know it months have past and the bird does become stiff they looked a picture of health but just wouldnt/couldnt fly and there was no way back for them the never really flew again or went to the building and back!

 

This might be completely wrong but it did happen in the pouters

 

hope you get it sorted

 

George

[swilcox]

Hi Guys, firstly i would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply, one thing that has come to light is that this problem is very common and that its on the increase.

 

I have spoken to the vet that screened my pigeons and he said that the birds have no medical reason for these symtoms and suggests they are muscle strains!! Whats more 2 of the pigeons that went missing over the weekend have both returned today injured (with wounds) so that explains where they got to!!

 

Now as i have explained i only have this problem with my cocks so tonight i let the cocks out in two smaller batches and they exercised completely different and for 35 mins each and clapped off loads, they did scarper a few times but didnt bag wings with each other! I looked at the cock from this morning and now seems alot better so i believe he banged his wing!!

 

I talked at length with Frans Zwols who told me this is on the increase in Holland and he said that due to such an increase in hawks in the Netherlands most fanciers dont let out in the winter, they believe this is the answer but such stressfull flying when they do get let out also doesnt help.

 

I take crebag comment with merit that this is widespread and more common than we appreciate and that no one really has the answer. I will look at prepairing the birds in future with calcium/potassium/amino acids to see if that makes any differnce.

 

Stu

[swilcox]

Hi Everyone

 

Well what a good discussion, what has really suprised me is the number of fanciers this has effecteted, i have had so many pm,s regarding it, sorry if i dont get time to get back to everyone!!

 

Similiar it seems in most lofts, pigeons fine, happens 3/4 weeks after starting to loft exercise after a winter lay off and only in 2/3/4 or so cocks. I think Mikes input is very interesting as many people do change a pigeons diet around this time from high protien to a more racy mix.

 

Just some update on my own birds, this morning i let the older cocks and yearling out seperately and they exercised very well, the pigeon from yesterday is fine so i think that was a bit of a red herring, the first and third cock exercised fine and the 2nd well he still stays in his box!! It was noticable that exercising 1/2 the number of birds at a time had a real effect on how they exercised.

 

I did give each of the 3 birds that have shown signs a calcium tablet so we will see how that works out.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for the reply, its true that the birds do get locked up from August through to Feb as there is just such a high risk of Peregrine and Sparrowhawk attacks!! a fair few have emailed to say that have the same problems!!

 

Stu

this is the first time ever that we have kept our birds in as soon as racing finished because of bad hawk problems and they were let out at the start of march and they were flying very well from the of so personally I don't see any problems with them being kept in and have asked other club members what they thought and they are the same, birds kept in but flying well when let out.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

It does seem like a muscle problem and the birds slightly hold the wing up when resting!! The pigeons were injected for paramyxo back in December so it can be that!!

 

and we vaccinated our birds two and a half weeks ago and they have had no adverse reactions of any sort regarding their flying abilities but have never found vaccinating them at any time caused any flying problems

[clockman]

this is the first time ever that we have kept our birds in as soon as racing finished because of bad hawk problems and they were let out at the start of march and they were flying very well from the of so personally I don't see any problems with them being kept in and have asked other club members what they thought and they are the same, birds kept in but flying well when let out.

 

For once Tam i think yir right

[Roland]

Many, especially in places like Canada, the birds are housed and kept in a darn site longer than here, A. Weather and . hungry B.O.P.

But never seem to have any ill effects ...

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Many, especially in places like Canada, the birds are housed and kept in a darn site longer than here, A. Weather and . hungry B.O.P.

But never seem to have any ill effects ...

 

much the same as what I mentioned Roland ie:the time birds are kept in has no affect what so ever as to how they fly when they get out but that is only my opinion

[OLDYELLOW]

the hardest part of a bird flying is the take off and needs enough uplift to get of the ground , yes i believe muscles wont be strong after the lock up and in order to build muscle the muscles have to damage creating microscopic tears in the muscle which needs protein and calcium to repair , so only thing i can think of is the birds diet needs to be correct to make sure there not too fat before forcing exercise upon them and give plenty of calcium and protein to get them to fitness , the only thing i could think of is these birds have been treated with antibiotics , the antibiotics stop the immune system from working whilst the drug deals with the problem .After a course of antibiotics you should follow up with a probotic my probotic of choice is Live Natural yoghurt , Brewers yeast has every possible vitamin your birds need , and a product im never without