Roland

Getting away from evening, but is same vein I feel ... One of the best distance / hard day flier from our fed used to give them barely enough time to home before real hard. Dusk they went etc. Most were in soon.He excelled. Kipp brothers, Kees Droog etc. show that they will travel through the night. We had a lot of success during the war years releasing at night. Mind Canada must be tops. They - like us - released pigeons in paper bag 5000 feet high from planes. They flew 2-300 miles easy.

When we transported the Feds birds I on occasions suggested that we use Fish Tank pumps - or such - to pump the water starting from the top into the drinkers that relayed downwards and then out. Fresh water in containers would / could then be treated of course. Just a few quiddies and no pigeons would be drinking water that sat there to be contaminated. No one per usual wanted to know how this simple measure could be implemented. Too much to think about for most and then worries of 'Who would do it' and be responsible etc. Gosh we see water fountains doing similar every day like.

You know, and I think / sincerely believe, without knocking any one, the adage of 'Excuses' rise to paramount portions to stay as we are. Yet, and the truth is, a short while and this topic will again be discussed, and again, and again. Nothing ventured nothing gained is oft said.. Maybe we should all invest in a magic wand lol (Joshing in bad taste lol) Why don't / isn't it put it to the test by at least some. Split their' team in halves (quarters is flying a rotation - though I think with y/b's they don't need it). Stick to it and at season's end count the losses from both. Merit of their racing etc. Further this will be well tested with great results - probably as yearling and onwards. Those left will be good for future older racing. Indeed flown under the same regime if so desired! Ok there are two thoughts of whinging here that compels and two arguments. One obviously counteracts the other. A. it would indeed certainly mean far less y/b's losses ... but B. Wanting to win ... at WHAT COST! You can't have that cake and eat it, that is a fact. So whilst one breeds more each year to counteract losses, the B.O.P. are happier and their young likewise on a full belly. The RSPB laugh and say 'What, and you blame us! You want US to help you when you breed more to feed our birds of prey! I should co - coa'. Yes it is sadly, very sadly a laughing stock. Oh I know, you want to win! (I have yearlings not been in the basket yet... May well go if sun on back Not bothered as, as two year old they can go. Next season I WILL have a team. Many been a couple to 5 times. Others less or not at all. But I know they will hold their own).

Nothing stronger than the juice of the Rhubarb leaves. Bring to boil and then quickly simmer for a few minutes.

Delboy, the simple logic, and it is a fact, it is the same for pigeons, horses etc. or any athlete. One has to be equally Mentally and Physically fit to be 'Fighting Fit' or super form etc. Not to use a 'Human' trait lightly, and not back tracking on fanciers treating their birds as Humans. But in this case the element is exactly the same. Fighting Fit... Fit Fighting weight. A boxer can't be fighting fit if a little over weight ... nor mentally not fit. One has to gain and know their best weight. Mine was 10 stone 2lb up to 20 years of age. Then 10stone 6 lb. If I had worries, or getting married (lol) etc. weight would fluctuate and form would go down. No matter if weight was above or below, same thing one couldn't be 100% fit. Hence before any one trains a bird, for instance the bird has to be mentally fit. Best observation of course has to be when they are out and about. One will see in minutes what others won't in a life time. ... I'd wager now that nigh all will say, or know 'Gosh the way that bird acted I just Knew he was on song ... Next week he gets bullied say, loses his perch, or nest mate etc. and it's form dips badly. Remember a realistic fact, for animal, birds or man 'A fit man trains to get fitter'. One can't train to get fitter unless fit in the first place. Takes too long as the body takes no notice till one becomes NATURAULLY fit. the bird that is always second perch from the top suddenly becomes better when the bird is lost / removed from the top spot. Pecking order needs to be taken note of too. Mentally fit etc.

What do you suggest? The juice of the Rhubarb leaves, or a pain killer splashed over them.

I'll ask, how many are conscious of their mental health before training? Let alone when entering a race.

Fine Georgie, but as I know very little of the Lanarkshire fed, I of course can't, so I'll pass. BUT I know many that HAVE won with first time in Basket Y/B'S, including me! Yes and several others. Yes and fed wins. Of course O/B's is different as they have what! experience? ... Experience of WHAT? Flying? How to fly? Locations afar afield? I don't think so. When released they hone into a direction heading for home. Hardly seeing anything as the last ditch hedge hopping, swerving around and over houses. They don't race as such, but fly at a speed they are comfortable with, with a little turn of speed if needs be. Some tire quicker than others etc. hence first to time in. We know that they fly in a arc for instance. Also that they zig - zag. One won't see this when they zoom over head of course as the distance won't show.... Yes granted it is notice sometime at speed. So what is this Experience one craves about? They can fly the distance times over and get lost at 5 miles. So as y/b's will home at 7 weeks etc. What have they to learn? Nothing that we can teach them that's a fact. They, after roaming, are more than race fit. So I believe we are again relating to as a 'Human' context.

And you know this because you, and others, have tried it! Or is it because you listen to myths, fads, and so - called proven past events by those of long ago. Have a once a national winner in our club that states 'If naturals aren't hammered up the road regularly then you will be far behind .... But does well not training lol. Another top fancier, with a wealth of winners and experience, laughs when he hears 'My birds are tearing up the skies ... Be far better in the loft saving their energy for the race ahead.

I tried one season - granted with old birds, a system based on a Ricky Mardis system. Simply they were out. Only Saturday / race days. First race Thurso 479 miles. I won one club and 2nd in another the others filling the places behind them. - I only ever bother to time in one bird... unless arrives with another loft mate.... 7 of the only 9 day birds locally. This on feeding only to achieve the results. Now as you may have read, I just send the y/bs to a race was usually the 4th race at 140 mile Northallerton ... no training. Saves on losses and fuel etc. AND Losses to the B.O.P. - many just train every day 10 miles, some 20. But before any one boo hoo's this, or are sceptical I will just say 'If not tried, then leave it at that. Maybe it is time for us to put our house in order! Stop breeding for losses and think out a new regime. Because if one thing is certain the present way is very costly in losses and expence.

I believe, sincerely, that too many think of a pigeon as being human. In their field they are classes above us in knowledge, instincts etc. Further I believe that many myths are boosted because certain traits, beliefs being so - call good and a proven success should in reality be laid at another door. Because what is thought, believed has no real merit, by has passed on time after time till it is the normal to believe and one is able to point a finger as proof..

True Delboy. But then fanciers will spend a fortune on birds, feeds etc. but won't raise as much as a eye brow to try and sort out a way forward. Me! Well I/we are lucky here about. Had a Peregrine - I hear - at the Royal hotel... but moved on after 2 or 3 days. Was one I hear too a little while back, but seems to have gone now. Hear tale we may have a Goshawk or two, but never have seen them. Now in the BHW Rag we see letters and even the RPRA say that at Portland the Percy will line up race days --- likewise now Kingsdown. Yet when we put in to have a ne course, or road it is boo hooed with silly sayings like 'They are every where' 'Why they will soon find out after a release of two'. Meaning 'A new lib site may favour others and they wish to defend their patch .... regardless of costs. By the way I don't send to the lib sites. Now I ask myself. When I speak to fanciers in the other side of coast it would appear it to be a far better and safer route. Gosh the RSPB ETC. must laugh themselves to sleep saying ' You want us to curtain and work to save your' birds when you won't even consider helping yourselves I SHOULD CO -COA'... 'You are a Joke'.

Young birds winning club and fed. Fact. Yearlings sections in Nationals first time in in basket up to 400 odd miles, fact and 2 y/o's and 2 year old section winners from Pau first time in basket. Fact. I've won 140 milers first time in basket. Others likewise. Indeed One fancier trains his north roaders and not his S. roaders due to being able to have the North Trained, and not the South Roaders... He wins on both roads ... In fact does better in the South Road club. WHERE the competition is far more. Indeed his South roader never get trained. One has to have a bird mentally fit, loft fit before even training. I'd say also, well guess, breeding from only proven birds allows success for this. Gary Edmunds was possibly the best fancier I've ever met. And I've met, and am friend will many well known 'Names .... I fly against 7 national winners locally also .... He only ever gave his birds two tosses. One at 20 miles and one at 50 miles.... as y/b's. They never ever went again.

Many don't train y/b's at all. Just race them with great success. Indeed even yearlings and 2yo's. Never in the basket do well. Simple reality and factual.

:D

Well done mucker, am really pleased for you.

I think, personally, that Scotland have improved and thrive well these past few month. Best surely for a few season. Well done ye Jocks.

True John, I understand that lol. I was taking a flippant swing in deliberately referring to the Duke of Cumberland. :emoticon-0136-giggle:

William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland (1721-65) Cumberland was born on 15 April 1721 in London. He was the third son of George II and Caroline of Ansbach. He was created Duke of Cumberland in 1726. A soldier by profession, he fought in the War of the Austrian Succession (1740-48), becoming commander of the allied forces in 1745. He was defeated severely by France's Marshal Maurice de Saxe at the Battle of Fontenoy on 11 May 1745. Later in 1745 Cumberland was recalled to England to oppose the invasion of England of the Jacobite forces under Charles Edward Stuart, the Young Pretender, grandson of the deposed king James II. Cumberland's army defeated the Scots at the Battle of Culloden Moor in Inverness on 16 April 1746, at which about 1,000 Scots died. After the battle he was asked for orders: he wrote, "No quarter", on the back of a playing card (the nine of diamonds - still known as the 'curse of Scotland'). As a result of this action he was given the epithet "Butcher" Cumberland. A flower was named after him to mark his success at Culloden. In England it is known as the Sweet William; it is a fragrant plant named by the King after Culloden for his brother. In Scotland the name 'Stinking Billy' was applied to a weed by the Highland Scots - it is Ragwort which is smelly and poisonous to horses. They are different plants with different names but relate to the same battle and the same person - the Duke of Cumberland, who remained in Scotland for three months after the battle, rounding up some 3,500 men and executing about 120

http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/uploads/monthly_06_2016/post-800-14657751302851_thumb.gif If that thumbnail of King Billy - as called stinking Billy via the Scots and sweet William via the English lol :emoticon-0136-giggle:

I wouldn't contact the council for starters ... certainly not a wise move. Unknowing ones ascertaining guesses lol. Trying to impress and spout rubbish... but making a rod for your back. Great case in Leicester a while back how a fellow battled with the council who kept coming back with other arguments ... High court over them and gave him costs and then some. Just put a loft up. Has to be a little from the back door -- or front lol - a metre or so I think, but don't quote that. and not about 8 foot high. Some get away with 12 foot high, but then who really cares? No one. Plus remember that they are classed as live stock and as such no hosepipe ban is relevant lol. Good post from Johnc, and remember too that if renting then legal you own the house whilst doing so ... so no rules can vary from Owner to renter!

Great news Alex. Wish you a long and wealthy success. Rv Woodcraft was class act at great prices. Services second to none. I believe Alex, with your reputation, this will continue.

Taken from the Alberta Classic. A mainly Canadian site. But are the Raptures any different than here. I very much doubt it. by Jeff » Mon May 30, 2016 6:40 am Hi David Best of luck on your races today I'll pass on a bit of advice that has worked for our club here on the island, we have no other choice but to fly one direction here, so training and racing started to become a problem starting a few years back, Vancouver island is called the warmlands for a reason, with that our preditors set up house keeping all year round, after getting hit every time we let our birds out I realized something needed to be done, if you can't beat them, then learn about your enemy, so I set up a seminar with a local raptor place, half a dozen members showed up, the rest thought they knew enough or didn't think they needed to know, for the six of us that went it was a great learning tool, we learnt about everything we need to know, with that information we changed our release time both racing and training, it helped allot, didn't stop the problem, but cut it down big time, problem we have now is people forget, their concerns are more about themselves then the pigeons, they went back to early training and want early releases, they don't want to sit waiting for pigeons till noon, then come to the club complaining about heavy losses or injuries. Everything changes, reason we need to pay attention and change with it or suffer the consequences. Not saying it is going to solve your problems, but it just might help with fewer hits, and never know, maybe some of the guys might see the reason why the course should be changed for your club. Just a suggestion, be prepared, all of a sudden your going to find some pigeon fliers that have become experts on the raptors. LOL

............... Returns were erratic. So I did the same... some broke straight of, some went Barnsley and back etc. By far the very large percentage was home on their perch that night ... others back next day or two. ...... Good to see them back ... I feel vindicated Kyle lol.

I, personally, think it would have little to do with 'trainers' at all, but the birds.' When I first started up on my own, Some old fellows used to take the youngsters up and release them with a fed race. This was their' first toss. They used to also leave youngsters out in panniers on top of the lofts on Saturday before. Returns were erratic. So I did the same... some broke straight of, some went Barnsley and back etc. By far the very large percentage was home on their perch that night ... others back next day or two. Very few were lost. Found they raced well too. As stated often. On race days - often - my youngster's would clashed with the fed release on arrival. The sky was full of pigeons, thousands. But they would join up for the slightest of moments (Sometimes one would circle with them for a lap and half like,then drop and trap. JMO. Yet I have had 3 fly away's in past 12 years!