My doos had 10 tosses and i lost 12 but yes lack of training with some would be one reason ,but my thinking is youngsters need a drop of sun on the basket at lib point nae sun 5 mile away ,they need a chance to get started in good skies then if they get a shower of rain or whatever on way they can deal with that ,breaking up in tae batches some of them never leaving race point and all this at 60 mile it makes ye wonder IMO ???