walterboswell59

mik here is a wee bit of info that backs up what im taking im reading this from the the leaflet inside my box of nobilis vaccine im not reading all of it just the bits that im on about it says shown to reduce virus excretion after onset of immunity 4 weeks after vaccination so there passing this out for four weeks allso use immediately after opening the container so the guys that use nobilis are wasting there time puting it in the fridge they are not protecting there birds i need a lie down after this ma backs breaking

ok lads my good lady has gone to to bed with old bird sickness from both ends and im staying well out her road lol lets get on with part two so now i know that birds jagged with pmv vacine if come into contact within 14 days of jag will give any unvacinated yb adenovirus which will spread to the vacinated birds so like most i jagged them as they came out the nest and raced very well thefew old birds i had left were put to stock in a small loft at my dads house i have allways been able to fly a good yb winning plenty yb ave club and fed and had the best yb ave in fed one year all sections with onehundred and twenty eight thousand birds competing racing 16 yb only so i had sorted the ybs problem my yb were fed on a winter mix that had barley in it a wee bit seed and a teaspoon of thin household bleach in a gallon of water and left for a half hour before going in the drinkers three 30 mile tosses a week and they were going like a train every body yb were getting sick but not mine so the jag was sorting the pmixo and i now think the bleach was keeping the rest at bay i used the bleach because because i worked long hours and not every shop sold milton and a vet in the bhw said thin bleach did the same job and i could it anywhere i then moved to my present ad bought a brand new 24 foot by eight and filled the loft with louella jan aardens again all yb were jagged as they came out the nest all was well untill i jagged the last twenty yb and put them in with earlyer batch this would be about may old bird racing was well under way but this batch of yb were not right it was like they had very mild ybs or adeno and i was finding it was getting harder to get my old birds to fly all the birds seemed to have no buzz about them but my wee ones were worse how could it be they were all jagged it was an 80 dose bottle of nobivac the bottle was opened mid jan then kept in fridge i had done everything right i thought meanwhile i was loseing birds training and racing but so was everyone else i sent 20 yearlings to newark won the race but did not get my 2nd bird for over an hour and droped 9 birds i took 2 of the wee ones to a diff vet who seemed to know what he was doing but he kept going to look at a book then back to the birds he then said i think its adenovirus no way i said there all jagged he then asked me how i did this and i told him i jagged a batch at a time as they came out the nest thats a very expensive way to do it he said must cost you a fortune on vacine no one bottle i said i had it with me and showed it to him when did you open this mid january i said the n i keep it in fridge thats your problem he said once you open the bottle you must use it all because as soon as air gets in it detereates very quickly who said you could do it this way i dont know lots of fanciers jag this way its easyer i said its not the way to do it you must jag them alltogeather or some or most of your birds will not be protected i was shocked i told him i did it like this for 2 years and had no problem he said i had been lucky when i got home and checked my book i had jagged six the week before so if the vet was right and the wee ones were not covered by the vaccine they got the adenovirus from the dropings of the six i put threw as it was not 14 days it was the louella problem all over again by now i had read up on adenovirus and found there is no cure all you can do is treat for secondery infection some came through it treating for canker cocci and an anty fungal antibiotics make it worse because they get a thush infection aswell so i put yogurt in to i was hearing guys were having problems all over and heavy losses everywhere if this vet was right we were doing the wrong thing by jagging them coming out the nest i called him and asked it he was sure about the vaccine being open he told me again all vaccine has a very short shelf life when opened dont take the chance jag them all together they will have some imunity from the pairents as long as they have been jagged within the year last part tomorow old birds

ok andy 1st of all let me say im no writer and i have nothin to gain by saying what i have found other than my birds will be less likely to catch anything from any other birds if we all do the same to help our selves and our sport this is going to take a while to go through step by step and i am not to cleaver on computer but for andy and those who are interested here goes 15 years ago i bought 12 yb from louella i did not know michael and john massarella then as i do now but was on good tearms with there manager keith whom i found to be a real nice helpful guy keithcalled to say birds were on there way i allready had 16 of my own in the section only taken away the week be fore i had taken the new birds out the box checking them as i put them in beside my 16 they where all in perfect health within two days something was very wrong all my own yb were on the floor in a corner trying to get in the darkess part of the loft and they were sh t g green slimey water i did not know what to do or what was wrong they had all the simptoms of what we call ybs all i could think of was give them oramycine antibiotic as was told no cure for ybs the 3rd and 4th days all the louella birds were sick but not the sameway as mine dropings a bit loose and not much apetite and retaining food in crop day five mines are still the same but 2 of the new birds were dead on floor and the rest looked really bad i phoned my vet let him see one of each he told me to keep up the atbotcsand gave me more i spent a fortune on diff meds but nothing worked i knew then vet did not have a clue day 6 and 3 more louella birds dead i stoped the med and fed small stuff lots of wheat and just glucose in water as min seemed to be dehydrated i phoned keith at louella as all i could think of the louella birds had ybs and gave it to mine keith said it maybe diff bactrea in the loft has caused it and told me all rings i sent back would be replaced as it had not even been aweek on day 7 4 more louella birds dead i killed the rest and sent the rings back as i knew they would die also mines were eating a little better someone told me about natural yogurt i put that on the feed to try i posted the 12 rings on sat keith got them monday sent me another 12 tues got them wed morn i checked them over and as mine had came on a ton put the new birds inthe loft but in beside the old birds which had been flying well picking up good pools and prizes out to 280 miles with only 10 natural racers 3 days later it starts again to of the new yb dead on the floor it was only a 16 ft loft in 3 sections my old birds looked ok but i had a bad toss that day one missing 4 late bop i thought the rest of the new yb had plenty body but just did not look wright moved my old birds into the 1st section now i have my yb in one sect new yb in one sect and my old birds in a sect but the section walls are just spars separating each section next day 4 more louella yb dead what the f ks going on i phone keith and tell him 6 dead allready he suggests giving the remaining louella birds the antibiotics and asks me if i use deep litter yes i said must be the diff bacteria he thinks give them the med and let me know how it goes by the 7th day of getting them only three survived and i knew they were not going to last there body was ok but they were loose and there feet were very cold they had something but i did not know what next day there were dead to i phoned keith he was baffeld also but said he would speak to the boss for me to my surprize he tel and told me to send the rings back as it had only been a matter of days before they got sick they were going to replace them again which i thought was fantastic for any stud to do as the birds were all healthy when i got them my old birds were one hour behind the winner that week but it was a bad race and only had 5 away droped 2 thesewere birds that had been round the world and back but the bops were getting a real problem i thought my own yb were coming on fine now all most 100 per cent with just natural yogurt and some glucose i gutted the loft washed it all down with jeyes fluid and new litter ready for the new batch of yb coming as thats all i could think of keith phones i will send your yb out tomorow all will be healthy and vacinated as i put them i the box as before it hit me like a tonne of bricks my yb were not jagged for pmv yet i told him not to jag them as i had not done mine yet its ok its a dead vacine he says should not matter it cant give them pmv dont jag them anyway i said i will do them all togethere i then went and read the leaflet in my pmv vacine from top to bottom vacinated birds must be isolated for 14 days this is what was happening in my loft what is comeing out the vacinated birds dropings is not paramixo as you would think its adenovirus young bird sicknessas wee call it the jag birds pass out adenovirus which gave my unvacinated birds ybs my birds then give the vacinated birds adenovirus and they had no resistence to fight it be cause ther imune system was already fighting the pmv vacine all my own yb came through it all the jaged birds died all other birds that came to my loft unvacinated were fine this made me aware there was a problem and did not let any birds near my loft or near any of my birds untill the 14 day vacination pereod is up this was lesson no one jagged yb give un jagged yb adenovirus and after speaking to an expert about it who make the vacine told me your not even suppose to let vacinated birds out for 14 clear days when infection is passing though the birds body into the dropings and spreading every where about your loft baskets and garden and now i need a break before telling you are getting adenovirus in the race baskets and how to prevent it at your own loft thats if people are interested if not ill not waste my or your time im not trying to be a smart ass here but i know for a fact im on to somthing that could help us all tea time f k

must need the space for lorrys with horses ariving if we had holdover that would be a problem but as the man said whats wrong with two maidstones makes sence to me

if admin allow me i will explain step by step what i have learned it concerns vaccination may help wipe out young bird sickness and adenovirus

owen i agree 100 percent and was not trying to knock ian or anyone else all im saying is if guys are saying no to things they have not even tried whats the point of talking about it transportation is an issue but its not the be all and end all m8

no m8 im not saying i will win a lot more races there is plenty better birds and better fanciers out there than me what im saying is i now know part of the problem on how our birds are not right and there is more losses now than ever before and there both conected and its all a bout keeping them healthy i might win nothing this year but if that happen it will be because i get beat by better pigeons better fanciers thats put the work in not because mine are sick as sick birds do not win and if im right 95 percent of fanciers are flying sick birds and dont know it and to make matters worse we cause it our self

its for every member of the fed 3 pound per year inform your sec that you want it and give your mob no he informs fed sec george but i think they want the names now m8 we were asked weeks ago

id fancy that even without the levy del deff m8 the french are at it

brings you down to earth with abang alan and we think we have problems way bateries hawks and transporters eh

both of you guys are right in what you say but i can only judge geraldy on the times i have used it and the condition of my birds has been first class in 50 years of pigeon racing my opinion on the losses is simple no one clashing far to many birds racing eastcoast in op directions and not talking to each other no two sickness in the baskets and three bop even if we have a bad race most birds should get home there homing pigeons after all they are not able to get home because there ill and last year after five years of trials i learned what the illness is and what causes it and won 8 firsts and over 20 fed positions and would have more if i had not sliped up on what i had learned i dont make judgements on things i have not tried my self good transporters will not help sick birds get home but it will help good healthy birdsin my mined

great flying john

well done guys

well done mick

well done joe m8

looks great

you get my vote walt thats the way it should be m8

agree with you there m8 easibed much better at convoyers discretion problem is if he has not got it he cant use it so lets be prepared for it

i have only used geraldy two or three times with av and with a very good convoyer and the birds were in great condtion on return and thats all i can go by but i do take on board what hotrod says about clogged up feet and if the birds are held for more than a few days i could see that being a problem but some shavings added at convoyers discretion will sort that

not me m8 was only trying to say its comonsence to me dont see what they are argueing about more room more water and more fresh air whats there problem ib

your right gareth but i had been told that in one race with the cardboard used the convoyer went and bought shavings and added it to the baskets because of the state of the cardboard whitch is an option and very good convoying imo dont you think m8 a bale of shavings could be carried with us to be added if convoyer thinks its needed if birds are going to be held for days or do we intend to use both what do you think m8

no m8 by my yardstick you dont need anyone to tell you a pigeon needs water space and ventaltion on a long journey to stay in good condition and thats all thats being said hear only it took four pages to say it or did that go over your head we were talking about the birds wellfair and we allready know whats best for our birds getting its the problem m8 imo

hear hear

we needed the dutch to tell us this for f ksake any fancier who did not know this should not be keeping pigeons