JohnQuinn

A far better fancier than me once said if he bred abd raced 50ybs by the end of the season he may have 30 left. By the time they done the OB program as yearlings out to the coast he may have 15-18 left going into thec2tr old season. By the time the Nat's come round he may have 12 left from his original 50 ybs. If he could find 4 good enough to win from across the channel then he had a good breeding season 2 yrs earlier. Fyi....The other 2 were called "that bassa" and Sweet Pea

Facts. Su 02 L 10889 untrained/raced yb. 9 races as a yearling missing the 2 longest races, but lifted 11 weeks Accy from the comeback race the week before our channel race. Paired her up July took 2 late breds 1 of which Su 03 L 11569, "Told You So" untrained yb. 8 races as a yearling out to Maudstone 361mls carrying 4 nest flights lifting £388 that after taking pools in the yrlg Derby. Went on to race until 7yrs old winning the club channel race twice. Latebred hen from him is dam to Su 08 L 8514 untrained/raced latebred. That hen now known as Equipoise won1st Club 1st Se 2nd Open Fed 1st LSC 1sr Sec 1st Reg 19th Open SNFC Ypres 2010, scoring from the inland Nat before that race. SU 14 L 4485, untrained/raced latebred, 5 races in her life, no training in 2016, won 1st Club 9th sec 61st Open SNFC Reims 565mls in a c**t of a race. Ybs don't need hammered down the road to turn out good 0ld birds.

If no one races in the morning Andrew the raptors will be hungry in the afternoon so the problem will simply follow the liberation times. Jmo

Naw it disnae disqualify ye fae having an opinion but it disqualifies me from entertaining any more of your posts on the subject. You've nae birds yer no sitting aw day waiting on birds arriving , yer no geting birds back ripped to pieces, you're no at a club on a Fiday night handling birds through but ye know theres health problems associated way the losses but you Are very very selective on who you're drawing your argument on. Ask another 20 fanciers how they've got on and you will find your two examples are very far from the true picture of week to week yb racing. Then come back on and tell me whats causing the problems for the VAST majority of fanciers throughout the UK. Even the men you chose to highlight accept the peregrines are the cause of the problems. Not exclusively but I never at any time said the losses were exclusive to the peregrines but ill say they are more than 90% of the cause.

I read Paul's post very carefully and he states he has taken big hits before. But more importantly he also points out what is an indisputable fact, he has better stock than, well just about any loft you care to compare his with in the UK or Europe wide. And Derek did exactly what you pointed out in that particular race but he so posted a few weeks back he had 70 away and only had 40 on the shift. He had 21 away at the weekend and got 2 on the shift from 160mls, I'm absolutely certain he does not find that acceptable because he works his doos hard to overcome these situations. But you never answered my question, how is Your yb seson going and how many straightforward yb races have you had this year ??

That's contrary to what the Clydebank members told me. 2 of them have chucked it for the season because of the losses and those still racing have been losing birds hand over fist. Tell me when was the last time you had a straightforward race with steady returns and all home in a couple of hours ??

A canny remember the last time there was a yb race where returns were good. A couple of races when the losses were acceptable yes but good returns no. We have reached the point of saturation with peregrines. I think the lads who say they’re getting hit every 5-10mls en route home are overly optimistic, imo it’s more like every 3-5mls. It’s now the case if you send say 30 birds to a yb race and go to the club with your click an hour after timing in you’re doing well if you have more than half your birds home in that first hour. Then Nothing, no more than 1 or 2 returned when you’re away at the club then it’s the odd doo or two hours apart fir the rest of the day with 6-8-10 still out come dark. That’s pretty much the pattern week in week out, even as pointed out by Paul Mac from the very first race, which to me is around 65mls. The pattern of returns or more to the point losses is the same every week in the yb program. Maybe better lib sites would give them a better run at it but not All lib sites are like Hexham yet the races turn out the very same. Race 3 in our yb race program would easily have 6,500 birds on board, race 4 5,000 birds. The 1,500 drop is not all losses it’s guys putting some birds away that have had the first 3 races. This year race 3 had 3,850 and race 4 at the weekend there 1,650. Never in all my years in the game have the entries to these two races been so paltry and it’s the raptors who caused it. A week past Sunday I sent 12 to Hexham and that morning tossed 13 from Forth, about 9 mls as the doo flies to me. I lost 4 birds from each. Got 6 from the race on the day, 5 of them home in 52 mins the other after 8pm that night. I got 8 from the toss, 5 came 2hrs after I libbed them (put them up 4,4&5) but the 5 weren’t the group of 5 I libbed together. Got another around 5pm and two more between 7:30 & 8pm, came together. One more from the race next day and one in the Thursday, the final one from the toss came Wednesday with big talon holes under his wing and at his keel. If it’s got to this point during the yb program when the birds are being hit for education purposes and not for eating then why continue doing what we do at present that’s my question to everyone. As someone else pointed out if you keep doing the same you will keep getting the same result. So let’s change it, I take on board that most will go down like snow aff a dyke in the first 5 or 6 races as yearlings but at least they’re getting to be yearlings and Percy has had nothing to play with during August and Sept the year before so there may well be less of them to attack our yearlings.

Just about covers my point Watty. But when you get a guy like Alan Jones who is up sitting 25mls away in the dark waiting for daybreak tae single up doos, timing them and if he disnae think they've put enough effort in they're straight back when he finishes his work that night to ensure they're as fit as possible for the up coming race. Absolutely no man puts fitter healthier birds In a race basket than him and he still hasn't seen a feather from Saturday's race. So whilst there are definitely men putting sick birds away to races (Lan Fed refused to lib a basket of blatantly sick doos on Sunday due to how sick the birds were) there are 98% more send well trained healthy birds but aren't getting them or as our Fed race at the weekend highlighted men are sitting waiting all day for doos tae come fae 90mls. But GUARANTEED not one thing will be done in a constructive effective way to combat the problem. So imo not racing ybs for a couple or three years MIGHT highlight something or might NOT, but it could be easily done and if nothing comes of it then some other measures could be looked at. But as you say talking P**h on here year in year out tae get it sorted out has done nothing and will continue to do nothing next year the year after and every other year. Men sending huge teams away and getting slaughtered are criticising the theme of this thread so what has to happen before THEY do somethibg about it or come up with a viable idea to try to address the issue.

I don't know why so few fancies know this but Linda Btookes worked tirelessly on the raptor problem many years ago. Lobbying local councils and local MP's. As a result of her hard work the subject was raised in Parliament, however these matters are given specific slots to be discussed, I believe this is the case with any out of the ordinary parliamentary business, so when it was raised there were 6 or 7 MP's present, the rest choosing not to attend through lack of interest or necessity to be there. When the MP did speak not a single reply came back other than the acknowledgement of the speaker that it was noted. When guys like Ian Botham are on the news and in the papers speaking on behalf of the "gentry" and get nowhere it sort of points out how little consideration fanciers would be given. He was pointing out the income the country was losing as a result of there being no pheasants partridge or grouse to shoot by foreign visitors who contribute to the economy. All in all We need to find a remedy and need to act together as one to achieve any fundamental change in the circumstances we find ourselves in now.

Very true Kevin but my last point is that direct action has been spoken of for more than 10yrs that I know of. But nothing has come of it, no personal approaches away from the public eyes, not attempt to coordinate a sustained program of action over months or years. The big problem with that is of course the illegality of it and the consequences if the person or people who step up to the plate get a visit from the police. Funding would be required to cover all the expense involved too, a loft big enough to hold a OLR to, feeding for the birds, fuel costs to cover “training†and a vehicle to carry out the training flights. All this can add up to a tidy sum of money and my experience of fanciers is 50p on the club/Fed dues can cause uproar. Then over a period of time the ones contributing, if they can be found, would build a resentment towards those not contributing to the experiment. All in all I do not believe that the necessary measures are possible to have in place because of all of the above and if it was possible/easy to put together it would have happened a decade ago or possibly more. My original post is really about the preservation of Ybs and the repeated losses en mass across the country. So whilst a direct approach is probably, if done correctly, would get the desired results if sustained long enough. But my experience of fanciers screams at me that this will Never, that’s NEVER happen. So to preserve the investment of our time our money and most importantly our birds then something that can much more easily be implemented and immediately get results because we would all have more yearlings in one season if we didn’t race our Ybs. It’s every man’s prerogative to train his own birds in prep for racing as yearlings but liberating 5,000 Doos together and 1,000 or more don’t make their loft, then the following week another 1,000 don’t make it and so on must surely be brought to an end. ??

The thing is Tam yer no thinking outside the box. For as long as I've been a member of this site this solution has been touted but at no time has it been followed through. The same fanciers on every thread on this subject shout about doing something about it but to my knowledge no one has contacted fanciers volunteering to man the loft and use it as proposed. Many claim to have "done their bit" without shread of evidence to prove it. On that basis I would say that my post is thinking outside the box, the same old box people have been shouting about since methusila was a wean.

No matter where you look these days all you read about are horrendous losses and fanciers getting wiped out of their Ybs in a matter of two or three races. So is it time to stop racing them, even for two or three years to give them the opportunity to mature and a better chance in life ?? And give us a clearer idea if they get to mature into yearlings they have a better chance to escape the talons of predators. Would this impact on the number of raptors surviving and maturing to breeding age thus multiplying our No.1 cause of losses ?? The rewards for being successful with Ybs are a pittance in most clubs and federations. Yet we send birds, some of them very valuable, to face their demise week in week out through the most dangerous period of the year for them to be in the sky. I for one would support this if given a vote on it or if the unions banned it. Would You ??

100% Jim and the rules of the Fed about delayed basketting does not state if the next day looks better then we just wait. The rule, and I was the Pres when it was introduced to coincide with having our own transporters, states Very Very clearly. Unless it is IMPODSIBLE to race on the Saturday the birds must be at the racepoint as scheduled. Racing today was NOT IMPOSSIBLE, difficult or extremely difficult depending where you are and what time you libbed yes it was, but it was not impossible to race. If the controller decides when at the racepoint that a holdover is necessary due to weather conditions then they are held. But they most certainly should be on site ready for release if the rule is applied correctly. There is no dubiety the rule was very carefully worded to ensure the birds would be on site on the specified day. If the cards fall against a lib then so be it but this rule has been ignored more than any other in the book by the officials charged to implement it.

No argument here on that score !!!

The FORECAST said winds in excess of 25mph gusting to 40mph. In reality the wind forecast hasn't materialised that far north, its like that south of Hull but definitely not at Hexham according to what I was told and I've no reason whatsoever to doubt it. Makes no odds to me one way or the other im no racing another pigeon this year so I've no axe to grind but it is what it is not what was forecast.

Glasgow Federation Young Birds racing from Catterick for The YB Open & 2020 Gold Ring Race have been liberated at 10am in a NW Wind.Good luck to all lofts competing.Emailed results within 24 hours. Nae mention of a STRONG NW wind and ma mate who watched the lib said there was no more than a breeze blowing.

When you look at the velocities of the Doos listed then ye hear some of the members claiming to have 75% teturns it makes ye wonder just how a stupid they think the rest of us are, a handful of Doos going down to velocities in the 600ypm bracket yet expect us to believe they had an avalanche of Doos late in the day that brought their returns up to 70-80% on the day. Away and geez peace

It’s Very Very cleat some ppl are being economical with the truth regards returns yesterday, same recurrence from the same men for as long as I can remember. Must think we are all stupid when their stupidity is sticking out like avsore thumb. !!!

In all my years I’ve never had to cut the ring off a bird unless a leg break forced me to do so. So for you to cut them off 3 birds in one year is strange and questionable to me.

10mph less and a fairer wind for everyone across the Fed and the passengers

Naw a don't think we should be at the race point. Different race intae Cambuslang than Edinburgh in this wind. Still nothng tae do way anybody other than Our Fed Members,

F all tae do way you what Lanarkshire decide. If yer no happy go elsewhere for a lift. Ye keep. it up there will be 2 proposals going in tae put ye aff the motor instead of the wan already gawn in.

Velocities are good so a big well done to the winner and the others competing ðŸ‘ðŸ‘

Got to smile when ppl say they “put the work in to race darkness†setting a timer on a light bulb doesn’t take more than 5 mins and unplugging it takes 2 seconds. Until last year I haven’t sent to the YBN since 2004, (only went because Higgy wanted to send. simply because it’s a graveyard for me. Got 1/3 sent last year and lost 2 of the best ybs in the loft as had always been the case, Couldn’t care less if I win a single race with Ybs because the rewards are pitiful. No interested in feeding the predators for another week or two either. I race (use the term lightly) natural Ybs and look for good returns before a good time. Higgy is racing some this year at his place and I’m racing the rest to me, I’ve dropped 2 Ybs in the 2 races so far and only another couple training. Having an educated team of yearlings for next year is 100% more important to me than ybn’s or winning week to week at club level. Imo the darkness Ybs do have a distinct advantage when natural Ybs are at certain stages of the moult, but it’s not a gimme. If yer natural Ybs are motivated and at the right stage of the moult they will compete with darkness Ybs but that’s jmo. If there was to be any change in the format I’d say splitting the convoy East and West would be the thing to do. It would Definitely help with returns in the West and if it means two different results so be it, the birds come first not the fancier’s egos. Again jmo