showman Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 If I'm reading it correctly Davie, what John is pointing out, is the logistical & financial nightmare testing would be. I also see you're thinking more of the distance fancier to be focused upon. Do the sprint men become immune to testing ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the idea of drug testing, but an awful lot of thought and collaboration would have to take place to give any credence to its' inception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chad3646 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 has anyone ever been found guilty of this so called drugging, i wonder how the old timers managed to win as much races all those years ago, drugs the could hardly afford the feeding i m o, it is a lot of sour grapes get your fingers out and put some more effort into it use maybe then win something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 So what your saying is just sit back and let the pigeon game become corrupt to the core and let the people that's drugging there pigeons get away with it and take positions and pool money from hArd working fanciers , there is the cost factor and who would do the tests and where , but am not saying every fed and club winner should be tested as a said earlier it's was more the national set up where pigeons are really put to the test and are flying 12 to 14 hours on the wing there selfs and not with any help for whAt ever whether it was proformace inhancing drugs or pain killing drugs , bottom line it's happening all over the uk and something needs done about it . I have never said to just sit back and let the pigeon game become corrupt,but have in any post relating to the use of banned substances try to point out it is not as easy to prove,and would in all probability become very messy and very,very costly to the organization trying to prove that any banned substance was knowingly administered by the owner,you have stated that you feel that National clubs should take the lead because of the time birds are on the wing,I would say the opposit because of the length of time these birds are in the basket & transporter any drug would in all probability have worn off,I dont believe that the deliberate use off banned substances is as common as you make out,perhaps the reason some fanciers win week in and week out is covered in the following.......better birds, up early in the morning,good dry loft conditions,sound seed(not nessesarly the most expensive)fanciers that would rather spend time with their birds than drinking in the pub,there are lots of reasons why some fanciers are in front most weeks,one reason that I rate highly is the bond between the birds,the loft,and the fancier..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Random testing - yes.Testing at race marking or en-route - definitely not, and it's nothing to do with the 'nothing to hide' principal.i know en route or race point testing is not ideal but if someone gave a bird dope just before basketing it might not show up at marking testing but it would a day later showman and they could also be tested when varified all section winners or say random testing for first 10 in each section like i said if you have nothing to hide it should not be a problem imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg50 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well i asked the question ,and i am surprised really with the amount of fowk that think its being done (drugging i mean) .The thing that i would be saying is that it would be a very costly affair to test birds .I think yes ,certain substances could be banned by all unions ,what they would be i dont know but i am sure a vet,chemist could give a ruleing on what to ban.There is a helava lot of potions out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showman Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 i know en route or race point testing is not ideal but if someone gave a bird dope just before basketing it might not show up at marking testing but it would a day later showman and they could also be tested when varified all section winners or say random testing for first 10 in each section like i said if you have nothing to hide it should not be a problem imo If I'm reading this correctly you're advocating possible testing at marking station, en-route and when race is concluded. In all honesty your getting a bit paranoid Sir. Why would you advocate pre-race random testing which would have a very low success rate. I say again, testing has to be targeted and more selective. Surely it is more logical and avoids your system of 'shooting in the dark'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmurray Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have never said to just sit back and let the pigeon game become corrupt,but have in any post relating to the use of banned substances try to point out it is not as easy to prove,and would in all probability become very messy and very,very costly to the organization trying to prove that any banned substance was knowingly administered by the owner,you have stated that you feel that National clubs should take the lead because of the time birds are on the wing,I would say the opposit because of the length of time these birds are in the basket & transporter any drug would in all probability have worn off,I dont believe that the deliberate use off banned substances is as common as you make out,perhaps the reason some fanciers win week in and week out is covered in the following.......better birds, up early in the morning,good dry loft conditions,sound seed(not nessesarly the most expensive)fanciers that would rather spend time with their birds than drinking in the pub,there are lots of reasons why some fanciers are in front most weeks,one reason that I rate highly is the bond between the birds,the loft,and the fancier..... Everyone's entitled to there own opinion and mine is there is very little to nothing being done to prevent doping in the sport , yes there will be a cost to testing and yes it could get messy but fact is it's happens , and yes there is genuine fanciers out there winning every week cause they put the effort in like a said before but there is also fanciers out there winning with a little help, and at the end of the day if fanciers have nothing to hide they won't mind having there bird tested IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well i asked the question ,and i am surprised really with the amount of fowk that think its being done (drugging i mean) .The thing that i would be saying is that it would be a very costly affair to test birds .I think yes ,certain substances could be banned by all unions ,what they would be i dont know but i am sure a vet,chemist could give a ruleing on what to ban.There is a helava lot of potions out there. You asked the question,I honestly dont believe it is being done,your correct about the cost of testing,but that would be a drop in the ocean should there be a court case battle,as for getting a vet or chemist to give a ruling on substances to be banned,it would have to be an avian vet/chemist and any of them that are worth any money are probably linked with the large companies that produce all these products already on the market,and like you say there is a heleva lot of costly products out there.....JBC/.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy bhoys Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 i believe many people do use drugs to win and i think it would be a step in the rite direction if we could test the winner in each section on a weekly basis in our fed :animatedpigeons: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Everyone's entitled to there own opinion and mine is there is very little to nothing being done to prevent doping in the sport , yes there will be a cost to testing and yes it could get messy but fact is it's happens , and yes there is genuine fanciers out there winning every week cause they put the effort in like a said before but there is also fanciers out there winning with a little help, and at the end of the day if fanciers have nothing to hide they won't mind having there bird tested IMO You have quoted the word "fact".....do you have any reason to use that word or is this only your belief,if you know of any fancier is using banned substances I would suggest that you report them to your club officials.....JBC/.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg50 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 You asked the question,I honestly dont believe it is being done,your correct about the cost of testing,but that would be a drop in the ocean should there be a court case battle,as for getting a vet or chemist to give a ruling on substances to be banned,it would have to be an avian vet/chemist and any of them that are worth any money are probably linked with the large companies that produce all these products already on the market,and like you say there is a heleva lot of costly products out there.....JBC/..I think they were saying £122 per test ,dont think it will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 i believe many people do use drugs to win and i think it would be a step in the rite direction if we could test the winner in each section on a weekly basis in our fed :animatedpigeons: Did you submit a proposal at you federation A.G.M. to this effect....if not why not..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think they were saying £122 per test ,dont think it will come. I think your right.....my honest belief is organizations will continue to list banned substances but will back off when it comes to testing....they know they could not afford the cost of a battle in the high court....JBC/.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 You have quoted the word "fact".....do you have any reason to use that word or is this only your belief,if you know of any fancier is using banned substances I would suggest that you report them to your club officials.....JBC/..if its being done in holland and belgium dont you think its being done here some people need to take the blinkers off steroids were being used on pigeons here 25 years ago but keep making a case for the guys doing it and they will get away with it imo it should be checked no matter what the cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Did you submit a proposal at you federation A.G.M. to this effect....if not why not..?because he needs proof and testing is proof imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy bhoys Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Did you submit a proposal at you federation A.G.M. to this effect....if not why not..?they are all sheep in our fed mate plus they would never pay for it either thats another problem money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 because he needs proof and testing is proof imo sorry he quoted the word fact.....if he has no proof other than his belief he should not quote fact..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 If I'm reading this correctly you're advocating possible testing at marking station, en-route and when race is concluded. In all honesty your getting a bit paranoid Sir. Why would you advocate pre-race random testing which would have a very low success rate. I say again, testing has to be targeted and more selective. Surely it is more logical and avoids your system of 'shooting in the dark'.i advocate testing anywhere m8 but i agree selective is better but is also pointing the finger but dont really care how its done just cant get my head round the people that dont want it done and keep putting up casses why we should not do it can you think of a reason drug testing should not be done because i cant even if its to prove its not being done as some think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNSEE Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 if its being done in holland and belgium dont you think its being done here some people need to take the blinkers off steroids were being used on pigeons here 25 years ago but keep making a case for the guys doing it and they will get away with it imo it should be checked no matter what the cost if as you say steroids were being used 25 years ago then why did you not implement testing at that time,as for wearing blinkers,I look at situations and the best way forward,the pigeon fraternity at this time is going through a very bad time with members leaving through the rising costs involved and very few new members joining,if any fancier wishes to dabble in giving their birds What they feel can speed up their birds let them get on with it......mine will get sound seed,dry loft,care and attention when they need it,I will compete against anyone.......and I am not making a case for anyone doing because I do not know anyone doing it....DO YOU ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 the dutch did not know anyone was doing it john thats the point of testing m8 anyway ive had my say on the subject and everyone has there own opinion m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambla51 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think the SNFC. Are right on top of it in Scotland, not only the droppings of my winning pigeons where taken but droppings from the full loft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmurray Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 You have quoted the word "fact".....do you have any reason to use that word or is this only your belief,if you know of any fancier is using banned substances I would suggest that you report them to your club officials.....JBC/.. Yes it's a fact doping is used in pigeon racing and it has been documented that doping has and does go on in the sport of racing pigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dal2 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think the SNFC. Are right on top of it in Scotland, not only the droppings of my winning pigeons where taken but droppings from the full loft.Was that on verification Tam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennut Tar Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 if its being done in holland and belgium dont you think its being done here some people need to take the blinkers off steroids were being used on pigeons here 25 years ago but keep making a case for the guys doing it and they will get away with it imo it should be checked no matter what the cost Walter !!!!!!!! your view/thought's are quite valid in what you say etc "Thou' it's a pandorer's box type situation I suspect if it was ever implemented etc.The cost factor & the legal challenges that could/would follow could turn out to be an absolute nightmare & at the end of the day & in the worst case senario in would be little man having to folk out in the end I suspect to pay all the costs etc. Sad as it is & in my view rather deployable that we find our sport in this sad situation. But !!!!!!! where it all will end I do not really know type of thing.Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think the SNFC. Are right on top of it in Scotland, not only the droppings of my winning pigeons where taken but droppings from the full loft.as it should be tam honest fanciers nothing to worry about m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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