Breeding Selection , With Walter Boswell

[walterboswell59]

Assuming that you have 3 good cocks and 3 good hens, the beauty of Walter’s system is that you can pair up your stock birds on or about 1st December and you would be ringing your first six youngsters on, or around, 5th/6th January. Your 11th and 12th youngsters would be weaned off, on or around, 21st April. Therefore, you would be able to get, at the least, 2 months’ worth of darkening for your 3rd round of youngsters. From these 6 stock birds, you could produce 36 youngsters of good or reasonable quality.

 

The advantages/disadvantages if you employed the bull system (compared to Walter’s system) are that you would have to have 9 pairs to reach the same goal. Your best cock would father 20 young birds (2 each from the 9 hens and a further 2 from his own hen). Your 2nd and 3rd best cocks would father 2 youngsters each and the other 6 cocks would father 12 youngsters, making a total of 36 birds, and having the 2nd round weaned off on, or around, 27th February.

 

Of course you could start again with the bull system after the 2nd round and your best cock fathering a further 18 youngsters and still have enough time to carry out the dark system. This way you would have 54 youngsters but get to test out more of your youngsters and stock cocks and hens.

 

Six-and-two-threes I think Walter, I may be looking at both systems the wrong way but what do other people think?

agree gogga tried bull but was finding had to spend much more time than i had m8 but id never put them on darkness pal i need to know if they can win whithout giving them any advantage over other peoples youngbirds ive nothing against darkness if your out to dominate yb racing im not if my yb win its a bonus to me and i get more than my share with naturalyb so dont see the point really and could also give me a false perception of how good the youngsters are if there natural and only flying to a perch i know there winning on merit if you get my meaning

[walterboswell59]

its a lot mick but no problem to the hen the whole point is to get a good team of birds now not 1 or 2 a year for 10 or 12 years im 60 mick might not be here in 10or12 years lol my hens run out of eggs at 9 or 10 this way yes but thats ok because im always finding new younger breeders to replace them as for the age thing the yb that won the last race for me this year 1st club 5th sect 11 th open 1500 birds was bred from my 17 yr old cock and a ten year old hen reared by a pair of yearlings so age makes no difference to good breeders its rearing a healthy younster from them thats more important m8 hope this helps

my mistake the yb was 1st club 7th section 11th open 1654 birds incase im corrected

[walterboswell59]

if you think you have a really good cock bird there is another way i tried and got 24 youngsters off my best cock in one round if you have plenty time on your hands its an even better way to make sure you have feeders ready if you wish ill explain it tonight for something to do guys thats if anyones interested of course

[Guest bigda]

if you think you have a really good cock bird there is another way i tried and got 24 youngsters off my best cock in one round if you have plenty time on your hands its an even better way to make sure you have feeders ready if you wish ill explain it tonight for something to do guys thats if anyones interested of course

 

we are walter, they told me to say yes

[andy Burgess]

if you think you have a really good cock bird there is another way i tried and got 24 youngsters off my best cock in one round if you have plenty time on your hands its an even better way to make sure you have feeders ready if you wish ill explain it tonight for something to do guys thats if anyones interested of course

looking forward to more "snippets of wisdom" Walter

[Guest Owen]

Sorry folks, I wrote the stuff about three year old hens in a hurray and got it wrong.

I used to be a widowhood flyer and my hens were flown as youngsters but not after. Over a few years I had a build up of hens some of which had done well as youngsters in racing. Since I have turned over to flying with Celibate cocks the situation is worse if anything because I accumulate really nice hens and I don't like to sell them because I would sell the ones that that have done least well racing although they have all flown the programme. At the moment I try to take a pair of youngsters from the best ones to try but there are always hens that just sit there doing nothing. I will keep the best breeders but any that have not been used for breeding or have not given me something good will be gone at

3 years old. The hens that are both proven racers and proven breeders will be kept until I think they are past breeding and rearing well regardless of age and I will replace them as I see fit. However, all things being equal, I will always want to use young stock for breeding where I can.

[walterboswell59]

ok here we go then 6 years ago i talked michael massarella into selling me two direct sons of debarcelona for 1300 pounds they were 11 years old at the time and both were off him paired to two of his daughters one was lady wegan the other daughter barcelona i had been at blackpool that year when the full brother off de barcelona and lady wegan was sold at auction for 3500 pounds think it was a 6 or 7 year old it was a nice pigeon but not a patch on my two old guys they were crackers and i wanted to get as many yb out them as i could one was in my small section and i ran him with 3 hens switching 18 off him but i struggeld with feeders as i was not prepared so my other stock loft has 12 large widowhood nest boxes and a small aviary on it i picked 12 hens and put them in one half of the box and then brought in 12 cocks and let them pick which hens they wanted and which box but they could only get in one half of the box the hens were fed and watered in the box the cocks on the floor in a hopper after 3 days of the cocks crowing at the hens through the spars they settled down to there own hens and boxes i then put the cocks out in the aviary and brought in the other son of de barce and dropped him on the floor of the loft when he saw the hens he started crowing and dancing in circles on floor the hens watched him he then started flying up to each box showing off to the hens they were all ramp and showing up to the old cock so i let the first hen out and he chased her around the floor for a minute then the hen sat down and he treaded her i lock that hen up in her box and let the next hen out the same again a wee chase round the floor and she sat down and hed tread her i let him tread 4 then put him back in his section for 20 mins to have a smoke lol then back in to tread another 4 and a 30 min break and back in for the last 4 each time putting the hen back in her half of the box as soon as the cock had tread her he was then put back in his section and the 12 cocks were alowed back in from the aviary they went straight into there half of there box crowing to the hens and this was repeated every day after 3 days the cock and the hens knew what to expect and as soon as they seen the old cock and i let one out the hens droped down on the floor and sat down hed tread her and back in the box and let the next one out at first it could take 5 to 10 mins of chasing the hen about before she sat down after 4 0r 5 days it was seconds for each hen this was done every day for 18 days untill the hens layed there 2nd egg then i opened the box and the 12 cocks sat on the eggs they did not all lay at the same time from 12 to 18 days as each hen layed her 2nd egg id lock both in when i brought the old cock in to tread the hens that had not layed yet i thought if get 12 or 14 this way im laughing all 24 hatched and reared this way he did not miss one egg and the feeder cocks all went on the eggs no problem this can be done with any amount of hens you want but the first few days takes hours of sitting in loft till all the hens are tread when they get the idea its not so bad but its well worth it if you have the time and dont have lots of feeders if you dont have an aviary then put the feeder cocks in a basket and take them out till the stud cock does his job then put them back in when hes done making sure they cant get in beside there hens only through the nest box spars cup of tea time now guys

[andy Burgess]

ok here we go then 6 years ago i talked michael massarella into selling me two direct sons of debarcelona for 1300 pounds they were 11 years old at the time and both were off him paired to two of his daughters one was lady wegan the other daughter barcelona i had been at blackpool that year when the full brother off de barcelona and lady wegan was sold at auction for 3500 pounds think it was a 6 or 7 year old it was a nice pigeon but not a patch on my two old guys they were crackers and i wanted to get as many yb out them as i could one was in my small section and i ran him with 3 hens switching 18 off him but i struggeld with feeders as i was not prepared so my other stock loft has 12 large widowhood nest boxes and a small aviary on it i picked 12 hens and put them in one half of the box and then brought in 12 cocks and let them pick which hens they wanted and which box but they could only get in one half of the box the hens were fed and watered in the box the cocks on the floor in a hopper after 3 days of the cocks crowing at the hens through the spars they settled down to there own hens and boxes i then put the cocks out in the aviary and brought in the other son of de barce and dropped him on the floor of the loft when he saw the hens he started crowing and dancing in circles on floor the hens watched him he then started flying up to each box showing off to the hens they were all ramp and showing up to the old cock so i let the first hen out and he chased her around the floor for a minute then the hen sat down and he treaded her i lock that hen up in her box and let the next hen out the same again a wee chase round the floor and she sat down and hed tread her i let him tread 4 then put him back in his section for 20 mins to have a smoke lol then back in to tread another 4 and a 30 min break and back in for the last 4 each time putting the hen back in her half of the box as soon as the cock had tread her he was then put back in his section and the 12 cocks were alowed back in from the aviary they went straight into there half of there box crowing to the hens and this was repeated every day after 3 days the cock and the hens knew what to expect and as soon as they seen the old cock and i let one out the hens droped down on the floor and sat down hed tread her and back in the box and let the next one out at first it could take 5 to 10 mins of chasing the hen about before she sat down after 4 0r 5 days it was seconds for each hen this was done every day for 18 days untill the hens layed there 2nd egg then i opened the box and the 12 cocks sat on the eggs they did not all lay at the same time from 12 to 18 days as each hen layed her 2nd egg id lock both in when i brought the old cock in to tread the hens that had not layed yet i thought if get 12 or 14 this way im laughing all 24 hatched and reared this way he did not miss one egg and the feeder cocks all went on the eggs no problem this can be done with any amount of hens you want but the first few days takes hours of sitting in loft till all the hens are tread when they get the idea its not so bad but its well worth it if you have the time and dont have lots of feeders if you dont have an aviary then put the feeder cocks in a basket and take them out till the stud cock does his job then put them back in when hes done making sure they cant get in beside there hens only through the nest box spars cup of tea time now guys

great post , and as a non religious man with "Buddhist" over tones , let me back as a "Bull cock" that would suit me. seriously a good post , and one to think about too.

[MIK]

ok here we go then 6 years ago i talked michael massarella into selling me two direct sons of debarcelona for 1300 pounds they were 11 years old at the time and both were off him paired to two of his daughters one was lady wegan the other daughter barcelona i had been at blackpool that year when the full brother off de barcelona and lady wegan was sold at auction for 3500 pounds think it was a 6 or 7 year old it was a nice pigeon but not a patch on my two old guys they were crackers and i wanted to get as many yb out them as i could one was in my small section and i ran him with 3 hens switching 18 off him but i struggeld with feeders as i was not prepared so my other stock loft has 12 large widowhood nest boxes and a small aviary on it i picked 12 hens and put them in one half of the box and then brought in 12 cocks and let them pick which hens they wanted and which box but they could only get in one half of the box the hens were fed and watered in the box the cocks on the floor in a hopper after 3 days of the cocks crowing at the hens through the spars they settled down to there own hens and boxes i then put the cocks out in the aviary and brought in the other son of de barce and dropped him on the floor of the loft when he saw the hens he started crowing and dancing in circles on floor the hens watched him he then started flying up to each box showing off to the hens they were all ramp and showing up to the old cock so i let the first hen out and he chased her around the floor for a minute then the hen sat down and he treaded her i lock that hen up in her box and let the next hen out the same again a wee chase round the floor and she sat down and hed tread her i let him tread 4 then put him back in his section for 20 mins to have a smoke lol then back in to tread another 4 and a 30 min break and back in for the last 4 each time putting the hen back in her half of the box as soon as the cock had tread her he was then put back in his section and the 12 cocks were alowed back in from the aviary they went straight into there half of there box crowing to the hens and this was repeated every day after 3 days the cock and the hens knew what to expect and as soon as they seen the old cock and i let one out the hens droped down on the floor and sat down hed tread her and back in the box and let the next one out at first it could take 5 to 10 mins of chasing the hen about before she sat down after 4 0r 5 days it was seconds for each hen this was done every day for 18 days untill the hens layed there 2nd egg then i opened the box and the 12 cocks sat on the eggs they did not all lay at the same time from 12 to 18 days as each hen layed her 2nd egg id lock both in when i brought the old cock in to tread the hens that had not layed yet i thought if get 12 or 14 this way im laughing all 24 hatched and reared this way he did not miss one egg and the feeder cocks all went on the eggs no problem this can be done with any amount of hens you want but the first few days takes hours of sitting in loft till all the hens are tread when they get the idea its not so bad but its well worth it if you have the time and dont have lots of feeders if you dont have an aviary then put the feeder cocks in a basket and take them out till the stud cock does his job then put them back in when hes done making sure they cant get in beside there hens only through the nest box spars cup of tea time now guys

 

 

Brilliant post on bulling a cock :emoticon-0137-clapping:

[Delboy]

Bull system, bull sh it system, been there, absolute waste of time. :lol:

[MIK]

Bull system, bull sh it system, been there, absolute waste of time. :lol:

 

I havnt had a cock good enough to try Del, why?, if ye dont mind me asking do u think its bullchit.

 

Mick

[Guest Owen]

Well what ever you call it that way of breeding works. When I started doing it I used 10 hens and mated the bull to another hen I held back for when he had finished his bull duties.

I found that some hens gave me rubbish birds while others gave me really good birds. After that I knew exactly which hens to keep and it was happy days from there on.

[billt]

Great reads from Walter and Owen on this thread

[andy Burgess]

Great reads from Walter and Owen on this thread

absolutely Bill , great to get information like this from "Old Hands"

[billt]

absolutely Bill , great to get information like this from "Old Hands"

 

Yes mate and willing to share information

[Delboy]

Master breeders don't exist,experienced and good pigeonmen with good pigeons do. Trying to breed a distance winner is all about percentages and the more you give yourself a chance of breeding a good pigeon then obviously the higher the % of winners you breed. I can almost guarantee this, if you have a BULL COCK and run it with 10 different hens to get 20 ybs,I will breed more winners by taking 1 yb only from 20 different pairs.This is to breed a distance winner, it changes when you are wanting a sprint/middle winner because a decent Bull cock can go with a streeter and breed sprint winners.Sprint/middle distance winners are very easy to come by but Distance birds are hens teeth and you need to expand your chances of breeding them. My post that the Bull system is Shyte only applies to breeding distance winners.

[dal2]

Master breeders don't exist,experienced and good pigeonmen with good pigeons do. Trying to breed a distance winner is all about percentages and the more you give yourself a chance of breeding a good pigeon then obviously the higher the % of winners you breed. I can almost guarantee this, if you have a BULL COCK and run it with 10 different hens to get 20 ybs,I will breed more winners by taking 1 yb only from 20 different pairs.This is to breed a distance winner, it changes when you are wanting a sprint/middle winner because a decent Bull cock can go with a streeter and breed sprint winners.Sprint/middle distance winners are very easy to come by but Distance birds are hens teeth and you need to expand your chances of breeding them. My post that the Bull system is Shyte only applies to breeding distance winners.

Ye Got to agree. No sure about the best racer to the best racer either. The best birds I have had were all bred from birds that have never left the loft never mind won a race?

[MIK]

Master breeders don't exist,experienced and good pigeonmen with good pigeons do. Trying to breed a distance winner is all about percentages and the more you give yourself a chance of breeding a good pigeon then obviously the higher the % of winners you breed. I can almost guarantee this, if you have a BULL COCK and run it with 10 different hens to get 20 ybs,I will breed more winners by taking 1 yb only from 20 different pairs.This is to breed a distance winner, it changes when you are wanting a sprint/middle winner because a decent Bull cock can go with a streeter and breed sprint winners.Sprint/middle distance winners are very easy to come by but Distance birds are hens teeth and you need to expand your chances of breeding them. My post that the Bull system is Shyte only applies to breeding distance winners.

 

What if ye found a good distance cock that has bred you 3/4 pigeons to score at the distance. You then run him through all the best distance hens you have, say prize winners, breeders of prize winners, and daughters/sisters of prize winners all at the distance. Surely then you are increasing your chances of breeding good distance pigeons.

 

Its just a different method to expanding your chances of breeding good distance birds with 20 pair.

 

Many roads lead to Rome and evry one to their own.

 

atb

Mick

[walterboswell59]

i agree with both dell and dal that distance birds are a lot harder to find it was my first bull method i spoke about that found my 5th 8th and 13th west section clermont this year if there dams had not been on with the bull cock it might have taken another 5 or 6 years before they were paired to that cock and cock could have been dead and gone by then and maybe me to lol but iwas asked how to find your best breeders not my best distance breeders but as it happens he has bred both and i dont keep pigeons for 5 or 6 races a year or would not race in the fed only the nationals as i think this would be easier for me as im out to win in every race from 60 to 500 miles and i enjoy every win and when i dont get any enjoyment out of winning from any distance id pack them in but maybe thats just me guys

[dal2]

i agree with both dell and dal that distance birds are a lot harder to find it was my first bull method i spoke about that found my 5th 8th and 13th west section clermont this year if there dams had not been on with the bull cock it might have taken another 5 or 6 years before they were paired to that cock and cock could have been dead and gone by then and maybe me to lol but iwas asked how to find your best breeders not my best distance breeders but as it happens he has bred both and i dont keep pigeons for 5 or 6 races a year or would not race in the fed only the nationals as i think this would be easier for me as im out to win in every race from 60 to 500 miles and i enjoy every win and when i dont get any enjoyment out of winning from any distance id pack them in but maybe thats just me guys

No I am the same Walter. Not saying the bull system is wrong only that the very low percentage of good distance birds bred I think that ONE or TWO cocks is not enuff. I would rather breed a tight family centred around your base family. ie brothers and sisters/sons and daughters of what you think is your strongest lines. This way the gene pool is still large but has a more concentrated line.

Of course many roads lead to Rome and obviously its working for you. Best of luck mate

[peter pandy]

I was invited to an interview by the late Brian Long to be his Loft Manager and when we discussed the breeding methods he employed he informed me that he brought vets from Belgium to artificially inseminate 100 hens with sperm from one cock. I personally thought at the time that it was a waste of good hens but then who can say what the big boys get up to because they are not going to let on their success rate.

The amount of times I have bred a good winner and on looking up the parents found I had lost them in the first couple of races is quite phenomenal and to me what racing pigeons is all about.

[walterboswell59]

No I am the same Walter. Not saying the bull system is wrong only that the very low percentage of good distance birds bred I think that ONE or TWO cocks is not enuff. I would rather breed a tight family centred around your base family. ie brothers and sisters/sons and daughters of what you think is your strongest lines. This way the gene pool is still large but has a more concentrated line.

Of course many roads lead to Rome and obviously its working for you. Best of luck mate

think your right again dal think the second way with one cock is more for when you have found your no one breeder but like everything else in life you need a bit of luck to go with it m8 then once you have one inbreed and line breed around him or her

[dal2]

I was invited to an interview by the late Brian Long to be his Loft Manager and when we discussed the breeding methods he employed he informed me that he brought vets from Belgium to artificially inseminate 100 hens with sperm from one cock. I personally thought at the time that it was a waste of good hens but then who can say what the big boys get up to because they are not going to let on their success rate.

The amount of times I have bred a good winner and on looking up the parents found I had lost them in the first couple of races is quite phenomenal and to me what racing pigeons is all about.

Exactly! You looked at the line not the performance?