Snfc Ybn

[Delboy]

Making what harder??

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

You are showing real ignorance in how the nationals work.1ST SECT D Real distance 272 miles, 1ST SECT E Real distance 304 miles. Measure from Leicester to Ayton (BREAKING POINT) then to each winning loft. Then take into consideration a bird flying into the wind, fatigue and flying alone without drag, I know what bird I would want in my racing team.This is a more accurate measurement and explains everything. Last year, the first bird timed in the west ( Mr Mrs Elliot )was timed 2 and half hours after the Ayton pigeon. This year it is 2 hours 15 minutes into a n.w wind flying 26 miles further than Elliots. 1st section E is flying 80 miles from Ayton , alone and into a head wind, with failing light, it took 2 hours 15 minutes.

 

Now, back to my theory of breaking points and fatigue factors etc making things fairer.Even with these put in place it still would favour the drag BUT, IT WOULD BE FAIRER THAN WHAT WE VE GOT.

 

I'm not disptuting anything you are saying in terms of the fairness of the race etc. nor am I having a go at you or anybody else.

 

but

 

I've seen you talking of this breaking point thing before and I've no idea how it could possibly work?

 

If I'm clear on the criteria you have mentioned,Kelso would be getting around 20 miles from Billy Bilsland from Leicester and Annan around 70.

 

It's all very complicated as is splitting up the national into 'semi nationals' or whatever you want to call it.

 

To me the solution is very straight forward indeed. Do away with the race and leave races of this distance to feds and their neighbours.

[Henrik]

Why is that Gary?? I am not that familiar with the geography in that corner of the country (but i am the results) so please excuse my ignorance. This is only a straight forward question i have no motive other than curiosity asking you this. atb John.

Because by road John its around 45 mls to Ayton and they have to fly every yard of it, so into the wind it can take them over an hour

[Delboy]

I'm not disptuting anything you are saying in terms of the fairness of the race etc. nor am I having a go at you or anybody else.

 

but

 

I've seen you talking of this breaking point thing before and I've no idea how it could possibly work?

 

If I'm clear on the criteria you have mentioned,Kelso would be getting around 20 miles from Billy Bilsland from Leicester and Annan around 70.

 

It's all very complicated as is splitting up the national into 'semi nationals' or whatever you want to call it.

 

To me the solution is very straight forward indeed. Do away with the race and leave races of this distance to feds and their neighbours.

 

Good point Lewis but distance races aren't fair either m8.You have fatigue factors here.As they say, distance kills.Me and you run a marathon and then ive to run another 10 miles at the same speed, doesn't happen m8.

[Delboy]

So you'll know how its making things harder saying all this on an open forum is then

 

George, Billy is a gentleman and wouldn't say it was easy or hard flying down there because he has to stay there but, if any of his neighbours asked, he would tell them the difference from flying there to where he stayed before.

[JohnQuinn]

Because by road John its around 45 mls to Ayton and they have to fly every yard of it, so into the wind it can take them over an hour

 

Cheers Henrik that at least gives me an idea of it.

[bigjamie]

GEORGE LOOK BACK AT THE YB NATIONAL RESULTS WHEN BILLY WAS FLYING THROUGH THIS WAY HIS NAME IS ON A RESULT ONCE SINCE 2007 WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU LOCATION LOCATION THATS WHY BILLY MOVED TO PROVE A POINT 9 TIMES OUT OF TEN ITS ALL DOWN THAT KNECK OF THE WOODS WERE THE WINNERS ARE FROM

[geordie1234]

al pm ye mate

[Scousebilly]

How do you explain the lads winning the Inland Nationals, in Aryshire and Stirling, good doo men and good doos same as the young birds national good doo men and good birds, lots of other flyers around the boarders not on the result..

[dal2]

Derek, do your birds break in Ayton? Surely not??

 

The formula you talk of has far to many variables to be a formula, distance,fatique,wind,darkness,breking points,terrain!!! completely un workable mate. The only fair racing you get, within reason, is club racing, if your club is not widely spread. The rest? too much of the variables givin above to be an option for me.

[Guest stb-]

This disadvantage is most prevalent in the yb nat but the same rule applies to most national races, location, location, location . Watch the 2 BILLYS tear the azz out the east section in the inland races next year The advantage changes slightly the further ye go, then the shorter fliers have the penalty kick. My statements are factual and based on years of being involved in national racing.

Del i can see up having to sit in the on race days to avoid being hit on the head with all the falling spat oot dummies soon fae the b section soon :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[JohnQuinn]

How do you explain the lads winning the Inland Nationals, in Aryshire and Stirling, good doo men and good doos same as the young birds national good doo men and good birds, lots of other flyers around the boarders not on the result..

 

The very fact you draw comparisons between OB races and the YBN highlights you know nothing about the difference and even less about what this exchange of views is about, its the YBN that crucifies the Majority of fanciers teams in this and other less well positioned areas with Very Poor returns or losing ALL our entries. That doesn't happen in old bird nationals, certainly not on the same scale. Not all good fanciers will have the race they expect every time, but we get what we expect from the YBN and that is NO Open positions and Very Very poor returns year on year. Also, Despite what you read and hear we are not poor fanciers with poor stock as has been suggested by you and your like.

[Delboy]

How do you explain the lads winning the Inland Nationals, in Aryshire and Stirling, good doo men and good doos same as the young birds national good doo men and good birds, lots of other flyers around the boarders not on the result..

 

2 posts uve made and both have made a cant of ye showing complete ignorance to racing pigeons into Scotland.

[Delboy]

Derek, do your birds break in Ayton? Surely not??

 

The formula you talk of has far to many variables to be a formula, distance,fatique,wind,darkness,breking points,terrain!!! completely un workable mate. The only fair racing you get, within reason, is club racing, if your club is not widely spread. The rest? too much of the variables givin above to be an option for me.

 

Maybe down the road for the Solway boys but for us up here, I would defo say Ayton is breaking point in yb nat in westerly winds. Just read the results Stevie, its there in front of ye.I would also say,if the wind was s.west the Solway would've been further behind in the result.

 

As for the formula, that's for an educated University student to take up, as long as they were given enough info on historical snfc races then I wouldn't foresee a problem.

[bigjamie]

well john its been a guy from our kneck of the woods that moved away to ayton and has dominated the ybn 2 years in a row first 5 last year first 6 this year

[Delboy]

Del i can see up having to sit in the on race days to avoid being hit on the head with all the falling spat oot dummies soon fae the b section soon :emoticon-0136-giggle:

 

:emoticon-0136-giggle: Its funny Rab how everybody is wanting a change now that a couple from the west are down there. The same things been happening for years but nobody bothered that much.

[dal2]

Maybe down the road for the Solway boys but for us up here, I would defo say Ayton is breaking point in yb nat in westerly winds. Just read the results Stevie, its there in front of ye.I would also say,if the wind was s.west the Solway would've been further behind in the result.

No arguing about the ybn, its obvious problems are there for all to see, I was pointing out the failings, in my opinion, of the breaking point. I would hazard a guess that Aytons position would mean a 90degree left turn for your birds? Surely thats not the case is it?

The boys in the Solway have given up with the race which is bourne out in the entries that are sent(45). 3/45 at clocks, 1.35% of entry. Three very brave birds of only one of which was on time. I dont know how many members sent but would guess there were no more than 10!!.

You are bang on regards the West wind, I may suggest that 0/45 may have been the case in a Westerly.

[JohnQuinn]

well john its been a guy from our kneck of the woods that moved away to ayton and has dominated the ybn 2 years in a row first 5 last year first 6 this year

 

Not for the first time either Jamie but that's no consolation to those of is who live and Work through here. Get plenty of advice to move location from better positioned fanciers but ye never hear anyone from the South East or East sections saying they will move here and race their doos, Strange Eh!!!

[tiger]

Not for the first time either Jamie but that's no consolation to those of is who live and Work through here. Get plenty of advice to move location from better positioned fanciers but ye never hear anyone from the South East or East sections saying they will move here and race their doos, Strange Eh!!!

 

your wrong john one of the best in ur fed came from east and win 2 nats but did not do it in the east

[JohnQuinn]

your wrong john one of the best in ur fed came from east and win 2 nats but did not do it in the east

 

Yes John ONE!!! MANY MANY years ago and if still in the east he would be winning today as well, experience is his strongest suit, he never had that 30 years ago. !

[tiger]

Yes John ONE!!! MANY MANY years ago and if still in the east he would be winning today as well, experience is his strongest suit, he never had that 30 years ago. !

john he win a gold award 30 years ago with wendy 5 times rennes and was the first man in Scotland 2 do it , tell me this john mc neil birds at the ybn he 12 birds before 6,57 all would have made into sec e fact

[walterboswell59]

How do you explain the lads winning the Inland Nationals, in Aryshire and Stirling, good doo men and good doos same as the young birds national good doo men and good birds, lots of other flyers around the boarders not on the result..

agree m8 good doo men good doos and an east wind and once in a blue moon it all comes together

[JohnQuinn]

john he win a gold award 30 years ago with wendy 5 times rennes and was the first man in Scotland 2 do it , tell me this john mc neil birds at the ybn he 12 birds before 6,57 all would have made into sec e fact

 

Aye but John isnae in Sec E just like all the fanciers around him. Look at the result closely John, you simply cannot make a case for a level playing field in the YBN I mean come on ??

[b.massey]

How do people see the 2013 YB national effecting the 2014?

 

Less and less birds each time it seems and I'd say after that one more will no longer bothering with it, also hope Midlothian see's some sense at AGM and its not in the fed program for the lads in 2014

[b.massey]

Aye but John isnae in Sec E just like all the fanciers around him. Look at the result closely John, you simply cannot make a case for a level playing field in the YBN I mean come on ??

 

Its a hard one to call John, I know its much harder and esp in a west wind but Section E still got tickets at 11am next day... I think if some of the birds timed on the night that got nothing and there lofts were in section E there birds would have went close to timing on night or first thing in morning. Its very thin lines and not saying anyone is better than others but as Tiger says I think John McNeil would have still had a good few on night even in section E