Eyesign

[Guest Owen]

Bernie

you and Martin are always welcome. I will even dry out a couple of tea bags in your honour.

I might even use boiled water to make the tea.

The weekend of the Show? I will look forward to that.

best regards

Owen

p.s. Maybe we should stay off certain subjects. What do you think?

[gulkie]

owen if you had to let say brian may into your shed and the bet, was what he picked out say just 2 doos from your shed you would let him keep them would you be up for that.

Many years ago I organised for Brian may to visit our club he started of with the pigeons

Eyes all went very well then at night he carried out a slide show after which he got people

From the members that attended amazing I could not believe how accurate he was when he

Looked in there eyes and gave their charector to a tee Brian stayed at my house that night

And told me and another member about someone that was there could not read nor write

And there were only me and the other member(whom shall remain nameless )knew this to

Be true .i believe there is something in it but it's beyond me, so therefor I don,t condem it.

[Guest bigda]

bigda

I have said about all I need to. I think you have got my drift by now. As to the idea of allowing some crackpot near my birds, I don't think so. However if you seriously want to know about breeding birds I will tell you my ideas on the subject some other time. Before people become preoccupied with the selection and breeding aspects of racing pigeons I reckon that there is a lot to be learned about providing the birds with a healthy loft and top quality health management. I know in my case that I was a terrible manager some years ago. My solution to the problem of not being able to win pigeon races was to continually buy in birds in a desperate attempt to find birds that could do it for me. As each year went by I bought more and more birds in the quest to find birds that would get me a few prize cards.

I think I was lucky because I attended 3 microscope courses with David Parsons the Vet and one with Brunell. The penny dropped and I could see that I had a lot to do to sort my management skills and to get the best from the birds I already had. These days I have a routine that works well although I want to continue to improve both the quality of the birds and of my own ability to get the best from them. The one thing I am sure about is that there are no short cuts and it can not be done by trying to employ crackpot ideas like some of these so called theories. Besides which, the eyesign theory has been about for at least 50 years to my certain knowledge. So why is it still a theory and not a proven fact by now. I will let you all work that one out.

 

Owen you are defeating your own argument, as i say if a guy could go into your shed and come away with your 2 best birds you would be wondering first how he knew and what the frig are you keeping the others for, such as the type of guy you are, out and about looking for better birds. i think if Brian May had look in your eyes owen i think he would see through you mate, AND YOU would get the biggest fright if he picked your birds out.

[Taylorsloft]

i think it was eyesign by a bishop i cant find the book right now . he study 50.000 eyes he said if anyone could show him a good 500 mile pigeon that had had a crap eye that would be his theory gone no one every did so the challenge is still there lets see who can produce one

[Guest Owen]

bigda

if your mate went into my widowhood loft he would come out with a very good bird even if he was blindfolded. I think I have seen enough crap and exageration for one day. This reminds me of opium for the masses because while people are messing about with this junk they are not working with the birds to improve them.

When I hear this type of thing it reminds me of the Guy I know who will not send birds to the races because he wants them for next year. When next year comes this same bloke losses them very quickly and off he goes again to buy more to protect from the rigours of racing.

As I have said before the process is all about breeding birds from what you consider to be your best and then testing them in the competition of your choice. Those that are best at what you are attempting to breed for will become the next generation to be bred and tested.

Obviously you can breed birds to be good at failing to return home and also birds that can never win a prize. All you need to do is to pair untried birds and breed from the parents of the birds that failed the year before and surprise, surprise you will probably breed more of the same. I can understand why people get fed up with the constant quest to find birds that can breed winners because it is difficult. Very difficult. And progress can be very slow. So this is when the short cut merchants can convince the frustrated ones that there are easy ways to success. Call in the eyesign expert because he will find the breeders of winners for you and your troubles are over. Then all being well all you have to do is to breed according to the experts instructions and you will have a shed full of champions in something like two years or less.

For goodness sake wake up and employ some common sense. This has never happened and is never likely to happen. I should have stopped writing my views on this some time ago because it has now got to be boring. If someone is superstitious that is the way they are and it is up to them what they do about it. If someone wants to believe whatever they want to believe then best of luck to them. My only reason for posing my arguments on this subject is to try to point out to novices and new people to the sport that they can become good at this sport if they work at it in an organised manner. And there are no easy ways or short cuts. It is just attention to detail and progeny testing all the way.

[billt]

bigda

if your mate went into my widowhood loft he would come out with a very good bird even if he was blindfolded. I think I have seen enough crap and exageration for one day. This reminds me of opium for the masses because while people are messing about with this junk they are not working with the birds to improve them.

When I hear this type of thing it reminds me of the Guy I know who will not send birds to the races because he wants them for next year. When next year comes this same bloke losses them very quickly and off he goes again to buy more to protect from the rigours of racing.

As I have said before the process is all about breeding birds from what you consider to be your best and then testing them in the competition of your choice. Those that are best at what you are attempting to breed for will become the next generation to be bred and tested.

Obviously you can breed birds to be good at failing to return home and also birds that can never win a prize. All you need to do is to pair untried birds and breed from the parents of the birds that failed the year before and surprise, surprise you will probably breed more of the same. I can understand why people get fed up with the constant quest to find birds that can breed winners because it is difficult. Very difficult. And progress can be very slow. So this is when the short cut merchants can convince the frustrated ones that there are easy ways to success. Call in the eyesign expert because he will find the breeders of winners for you and your troubles are over. Then all being well all you have to do is to breed according to the experts instructions and you will have a shed full of champions in something like two years or less.

For goodness sake wake up and employ some common sense. This has never happened and is never likely to happen. I should have stopped writing my views on this some time ago because it has now got to be boring. If someone is superstitious that is the way they are and it is up to them what they do about it. If someone wants to believe whatever they want to believe then best of luck to them. My only reason for posing my arguments on this subject is to try to point out to novices and new people to the sport that they can become good at this sport if they work at it in an organised manner. And there are no easy ways or short cuts. It is just attention to detail and progeny testing all the way.

 

Of course you are correct Owen, The eye-sign theory has been mooted for years if there were any substance in it we would all be on it

[moscow master]

good topic going here folks personally a dont believe in the eye sign theory even more so as i own a pair of doos that have bred countless winners including 2 shu award winners combine winners and a red hen that has bred section winners and none of these doos get a second glanse at the eyesign shows and doos that win the show have done nothing of note so my theroy is if they can pick ay linseed on the grass that will day me to me eyesigns a seperate wee pastime that gives eyesign guys a bit of pleasure over the winter months jmo

[Guest bigda]

bigda

if your mate went into my widowhood loft he would come out with a very good bird even if he was blindfolded. I think I have seen enough crap and exageration for one day. This reminds me of opium for the masses because while people are messing about with this junk they are not working with the birds to improve them.

When I hear this type of thing it reminds me of the Guy I know who will not send birds to the races because he wants them for next year. When next year comes this same bloke losses them very quickly and off he goes again to buy more to protect from the rigours of racing.

As I have said before the process is all about breeding birds from what you consider to be your best and then testing them in the competition of your choice. Those that are best at what you are attempting to breed for will become the next generation to be bred and tested.

Obviously you can breed birds to be good at failing to return home and also birds that can never win a prize. All you need to do is to pair untried birds and breed from the parents of the birds that failed the year before and surprise, surprise you will probably breed more of the same. I can understand why people get fed up with the constant quest to find birds that can breed winners because it is difficult. Very difficult. And progress can be very slow. So this is when the short cut merchants can convince the frustrated ones that there are easy ways to success. Call in the eyesign expert because he will find the breeders of winners for you and your troubles are over. Then all being well all you have to do is to breed according to the experts instructions and you will have a shed full of champions in something like two years or less.

For goodness sake wake up and employ some common sense. This has never happened and is never likely to happen. I should have stopped writing my views on this some time ago because it has now got to be boring. If someone is superstitious that is the way they are and it is up to them what they do about it. If someone wants to believe whatever they want to believe then best of luck to them. My only reason for posing my arguments on this subject is to try to point out to novices and new people to the sport that they can become good at this sport if they work at it in an organised manner. And there are no easy ways or short cuts. It is just attention to detail and progeny testing all the way.

owen are you trying to miss the point or what.What i said was ok if the guy went into your widowhood loft and then went and brought out your best bird there and then, and then into your stock loft and took yer best breeder what would that tell you.

[demolition man]

Bernie

you and Martin are always welcome. I will even dry out a couple of tea bags in your honour.

I might even use boiled water to make the tea.

The weekend of the Show? I will look forward to that.

best regards

Owen

p.s. Maybe we should stay off certain subjects. What do you think?

 

Owen

 

How can we resist that offer boiled water and a dried out tea bag lol.

 

 

Bernie

[Novice]

good topic going here folks personally a dont believe in the eye sign theory even more so as i own a pair of doos that have bred countless winners including 2 shu award winners combine winners and a red hen that has bred section winners and none of these doos get a second glanse at the eyesign shows and doos that win the show have done nothing of note so my theroy is if they can pick ay linseed on the grass that will day me to me eyesigns a seperate wee pastime that gives eyesign guys a bit of pleasure over the winter months jmo

 

Good point but what you need to realise is that the assessment can only be as good as the knowledge of the assessor.

If he really does not know his subject well he is doomed to failure.

Just like a handling class we all have different traits we like or dislike.

Remember the breeding characteristics (as far as I am aware) relate more to the patterns in the iris than in the sigh itself.

As a neutral I could be wrong on what I have said and someone might correct me.

[PIGEON_MAN]

good topic going here folks personally a dont believe in the eye sign theory even more so as i own a pair of doos that have bred countless winners including 2 shu award winners combine winners and a red hen that has bred section winners and none of these doos get a second glanse at the eyesign shows and doos that win the show have done nothing of note so my theroy is if they can pick ay linseed on the grass that will day me to me eyesigns a seperate wee pastime that gives eyesign guys a bit of pleasure over the winter months jmo

I can asure you that if the judge was a proper eye sign guy and not someone who just because he as won a few races thinks he is a expert on the subject,he would pick out your birds no problem,I have been interested in eyesign for almost 50 years and shown birds all over the country but would not call myself an expert in any way or even try to explain it to others,but I have selected many birds on eyesign alone which have bred me winners,was I lucky I dont know but I have said before IT WORKS FOR ME and thats all I,m worried about.

[Guest Owen]

Obviously now that you can pick out the breeders of winners you win all the races at your Club and Fed and you don't keep birds that are below the winner level. I can't imagine how much your income must be from all the One Loft Races you have won.

Bull. This the sort of thing that proves the point. There is nothing in eyesign other than the fact that fit birds have a certain sparkle to their eyes. And that applies to poor quality birds and excellent quality birds. It applies to fancy pigeons, chickens and every other bird that flies. There is no way that quality breeders or racers can be selected without progeny testing followed by selection. If it was as easy as you say you would not have to race your birds to work out which ones you need to breed super racers. Then if you follow this argument further you would be able to save a lot of money by only keeping a very small number of these super pigeons because they could be relied on to win races regularly.

No doubt you live in a mansion and drive a big car that you have bought with the proceeds of your sales and the winnings of these super birds.

Look out. Quick there are flying pigs about to dive bomb us.

To improve the performance of any living creature you have to measure the point you have reached regularly. Then you continue breeding by selecting the ones that are nearest to the goal you have set.

If eyesign were a factor you would need to measure the quality of each individual and make your selections so that you can improve again in the next generation. After 50 or so years bearing mind that pigeons are said to be genetically plastic you would be producing your targeted individuals with monotonous regularity.

Again I say Bull.

[PIGEON_MAN]

You have your thoughts on it Owen I have mine,it works for me and thats all I care about,its great here in fantasy land.

[Taylorsloft]

more eyes

[THE FIFER]

good pics m8, like 2 then 1. all look good

[peter pandy]

This has been a most interesting post with Owen and others denigrating the theory of eye sign. However over the thread Brian May was given a mention which churned out memories for me of a splendid night out where he showed his slides to a captive audience. I recall that particular evening as it destroyed my myth of eye sign when he asked the audience members to write down which slide of an eye we would like to take home, Almost all plumped for this terrific looking eye which in fact belonged to a rhode island hen. The point Brian endeavoured to make was, all is not as it seems.

I have over many years been aware of an eye that will win races but only when the bird is conditioned for an optimum result once a year.

[Novice]

Brian can examine a human eye and tell a great deal about the health of an individual.

He can also tell whether or not the owner of the eye has had sex recently.

[Gerard]

Dunno about this eye theory. In first I think its just fantasy, there is no scientific evidence or what so ever. Kinda amazing when you just look at a digital eye scan code. The amazing thing for me is how it is possible for humans to read this code in a pigeon eye. Just impossible. I would just say.......... its fantasy Why do people pay for to have their pigeons being "eye scanned" by someone telling he knows the eye of a good racing pigeon.

 

I had this bird who got lost on a race. Some guy caught the pigeon and rang me to tell me this was a marvelous pigeon, he could see that looking in this pigeon eye. 2 days later I went to this guy to pick up my bird. 3 weeks later basketted the pigeon on a short silly race...............never came back.

[Guest Owen]

While some will waste their time messing about with this rubbish some of us will get on with the job in hand of selecting birds that can do the job of winning races.

People who carry on trying to con people with this nonsense should be jailed for deception.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

While some will waste their time messing about with this rubbish some of us will get on with the job in hand of selecting birds that can do the job of winning races.

People who carry on trying to con people with this nonsense should be jailed for deception.

 

There are a number of fanciers past and present who have believed in eyesign and been terribly successful,of course eyesign is not the sole reason for this success.

 

But because yourself,Geoff Cooper,Mark Gilbert or whoever say its a lot of rubbish doesn't make it the case.

 

Not a man alive knows all there is to know about pigeons.

[Guest Owen]

Maybe the people who you mentioned do not know everything about pigeons but I think you might agree that we all know a thing or two about winning pigeon races.

The only reason I bother to reply to some of this rubbish is to try to give inexperienced people a chance to get their priorities right rather than be fooled into being led down these paths to nowhere.

If there were anything in any of this stuff I am sure that the birds owned and raced by the people you listed above would be dripping with eyesign.

Pigeon racing is difficult enough to learn without burdening people with this sort of thing. The fact that the advertisers are conning people every day to waste their money on things that do little or no good is bad enough without bogging the sport down with unproven theories that have been going on for 60 odd years without ant substance to them.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Maybe the people who you mentioned do not know everything about pigeons but I think you might agree that we all know a thing or two about winning pigeon races.

The only reason I bother to reply to some of this rubbish is to try to give inexperienced people a chance to get their priorities right rather than be fooled into being led down these paths to nowhere.

If there were anything in any of this stuff I am sure that the birds owned and raced by the people you listed above would be dripping with eyesign.

Pigeon racing is difficult enough to learn without burdening people with this sort of thing. The fact that the advertisers are conning people every day to waste their money on things that do little or no good is bad enough without bogging the sport down with unproven theories that have been going on for 60 odd years without ant substance to them.

 

Of course you can achieve success without ever looking into a birds eye.

 

From a personal point of view every good bird I've ever had may have had fantastic eyesign.I like most however would not know.This is the trouble,many who decry eyesign aren't actually decrying eyesign they are covering up for the fact they know nothing about it.Let people who like it and find it useful get on with it without rubbishing it.

 

Another thing is I wouldnt neccessarily believe all these top fanciers from the videos etc. when they tell you its nonsense.Many of these guys tell you what you want to hear,its not because they are bad people this is part of the pigeon racing comradery.Very few if any top fanciers regardless of how well you think you know them,will tell you everything.

 

Many will even try and throw people off the scent.I won't name names,but I have visited a fancier in the past who on the results front has no equals.After reading loft reports(the kind of thing novices would read)and hearing stories I was under the impression this man used no medication whatsover,all the success was down to his expert management and exceptional pigeons.

The more I got talking to him I realised this could not be further from the truth.He is actually so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to supplementing and dosing pigeons that of course he'll want people to think he uses clean water and good food.

[billt]

I must agree with Owen on this one, if eye-sign played any part of choosing top breeders/winners then I'm sure it would have been taken up by the horse racing fraternity.

[just ask me]

dont belive in it tbh no 2 people picked out the same bird in my stock loft and said that's my best breeder also never done in the race loft saying thats your best racer and ive had plenty of eye sign experts in there never picked the same bird

 

my old man was a believer a long time ago and was called a expert by a lot of people and when i started to take a big intrest in pigeons i started to look at eye sign thinking there may have been something in it

 

one of the so called top eye sign men came to our lofts and passed off our main pair without being told what they were as breeders of sprinters at best and probably would not breed much at all that pair were responsible for winners at every level not only in our lofts but in lots of others too including over 500 mile

 

he did love the the bird that the father had caught in the previous morning and was placed in a basket stating he was sure that it was the foundation of our loft this was in front of a few people i dont think he was too impressed when the father let it off and it made its way home after 15 mins

 

that put a end to my eye sign days lol

[dal2]

Of course you can achieve success without ever looking into a birds eye.

 

From a personal point of view every good bird I've ever had may have had fantastic eyesign.I like most however would not know.This is the trouble,many who decry eyesign aren't actually decrying eyesign they are covering up for the fact they know nothing about it.Let people who like it and find it useful get on with it without rubbishing it.

 

Another thing is I wouldnt neccessarily believe all these top fanciers from the videos etc. when they tell you its nonsense.Many of these guys tell you what you want to hear,its not because they are bad people this is part of the pigeon racing comradery.Very few if any top fanciers regardless of how well you think you know them,will tell you everything.

 

Many will even try and throw people off the scent.I won't name names,but I have visited a fancier in the past who on the results front has no equals.After reading loft reports(the kind of thing novices would read)and hearing stories I was under the impression this man used no medication whatsover,all the success was down to his expert management and exceptional pigeons.

The more I got talking to him I realised this could not be further from the truth.He is actually so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to supplementing and dosing pigeons that of course he'll want people to think he uses clean water and good food.

 

 

Very true Lewis. I have discussed this at length with Owen and we will disagree with eyesign just as we do with breeding selection!

 

If it works for you dont change it, we dont use ot as a be all end all thing but as a supplement and enjoy comparing them findings? No much wrong with that as far as I can see??