Cider Vinegar And Rearing

[Guest wesley48]

is it best to lay off the c/v when ur o/bs are rearing , ie scouring the sqeakers ?

[andy Burgess]

is it best to lay off the c/v when ur o/bs are rearing , ie scouring the sqeakers ?

i used to give it , but was told the same ,so stopped.

[adam owen]

cant see the sence in that anything that is good for a pigeon should be good enough all the time surley??

[victorious]

cant see the sence in that anything that is good for a pigeon should be good enough all the time surley??

[victorious]

MAKES YOU WONDER WHY EVEN BOTHER GIVING IT ANY TIME,STRANGE WHY THIS CIDER VINEGAR ISNT USED MUCH FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ,MAYBE ITS NOT WHAT ITS MADE OUT TO BE,A BIT LIKE GARLIC AS ON THE INTERNET SOME SITES SAY IT CAN BE TOXIC TO ANIMALS AND BIRDS DUE TO IT EFECTING THERE BRAIN,AGAIN STRANGE WE HAVE ONLY BEEN HAVING SO MANY LOSSES SINCE USING THIS S..T THE LAST 15 YEARS ,DRINK A GLASS A DAY URSELF AND TELL ME HOW YOU FEEL AT THE END OF THE WEEK.

[Guest wesley48]

seems strange that its the first year ive tried it and its the first time i have had probs , could be more serious i know but look at the simple things first i thought , just wondered if other folks have had this prob ? , might try it for a week and if i dont get back to you , you can draw ur own conclusion

[billt]

is it best to lay off the c/v when ur o/bs are rearing , ie scouring the sqeakers ?

 

Can only say I have never used it and never had a problem

[PIGEON_MAN]

is it best to lay off the c/v when ur o/bs are rearing , ie scouring the sqeakers ?

Use it a couple of times each week all through the year never had any problems.

[frank-123]

Use it a couple of times each week all through the year never had any problems.

 

I am the same couple of times a week my youngbirds are firing out firm droppings and look healthy

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS STILL USE IT.///

[Daisymay]

MAKES YOU WONDER WHY EVEN BOTHER GIVING IT ANY TIME,STRANGE WHY THIS CIDER VINEGAR ISNT USED MUCH FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ,MAYBE ITS NOT WHAT ITS MADE OUT TO BE,A BIT LIKE GARLIC AS ON THE INTERNET SOME SITES SAY IT CAN BE TOXIC TO ANIMALS AND BIRDS DUE TO IT EFECTING THERE BRAIN,AGAIN STRANGE WE HAVE ONLY BEEN HAVING SO MANY LOSSES SINCE USING THIS S..T THE LAST 15 YEARS ,DRINK A GLASS A DAY URSELF AND TELL ME HOW YOU FEEL AT THE END OF THE WEEK.

 

 

Have to agree with your comments,all you here is that people give them something in there water EVERY day,whats wrong with good clean,fresh water.??

[Wiley]

I use cider vinegar very regularly for myself and the birds

[Guest Owen]

I am not at all sure why anybody thinks that acidifying the gut will benefit the bird. Originally it was meant to make the gut alien to E Coli but as anybody knows who has used it it does next to nothing to help ward off YBS. I have a book which advocates humans using organically produced apple cider vinegar and honey as a health aid. It claims that it will control the effects of arthritis and make the person healthier all around.

Pigeons like most creatures crave calcium when they are breeding and they like to have minerals and grit fed fresh every day. Calcium is alkaline which would destroy the acidity of the apple cider vinegar so there is no point in offering an acidifier.

[greenlands]

Hi Owen, so reading your post mate you are saying anyone giving cider vinegar and shell/grit are basically wasting there time.

[victorious]

LOOK AT IT THIS WAY I FLY OPEN LOFT 24/7 IF I PUT CIDER VINEGAR OR GARLIC IN THE WATER THEY GO ELSE WHERE LOOKING FOR WATER EVEN DIRTY PUDDLE WATER ,THEY JUST SEEM TO HATE THINGS LIKE THIS IN THEIR WATER AND I DONT MEAN TO STRONG AS I DILUTED IT WELL,THE ONLY WAY THEY DRANK IT IS WHEN THEY HAD NO CHOICE,THE BEST THING I EVER USED IN THE WATER ALL YEAR ROUND WAS THE OLD AVIFORM WHICH IS NOW OFF THE MARKET AND BOY DID THEY RACE AND ALWAYS LOOKED THE PART ,I WONDER DID JIM BISS USE CIDER VINEGAR ANYBODY KNOW.

[peter pandy]

I am not at all sure why anybody thinks that acidifying the gut will benefit the bird. Originally it was meant to make the gut alien to E Coli but as anybody knows who has used it it does next to nothing to help ward off YBS. I have a book which advocates humans using organically produced apple cider vinegar and honey as a health aid. It claims that it will control the effects of arthritis and make the person healthier all around.

Pigeons like most creatures crave calcium when they are breeding and they like to have minerals and grit fed fresh every day. Calcium is alkaline which would destroy the acidity of the apple cider vinegar so there is no point in offering an acidifier.

Apple Cider Vinegar = Ascetic Acid = Alkali. Where the confusion arises regarding Acid and Alkali is determined on the packaging of vinegar " all types " is represented as 5% acid however they are all Ascetic Acid. Is their a possibility that presenting Calcium in the form of Grits + A.C.Vinegar could contribute quite a considerable amount of Alkalinity equalling irritable bowel syndrum in the birds.

[Novice]

Apple Cider Vinegar = Ascetic Acid = Alkali. Where the confusion arises regarding Acid and Alkali is determined on the packaging of vinegar " all types " is represented as 5% acid however they are all Ascetic Acid. Is their a possibility that presenting Calcium in the form of Grits + A.C.Vinegar could contribute quite a considerable amount of Alkalinity equalling irritable bowel syndrum in the birds.

 

 

This post actually made me wonder if my 44 years in the chemical industry had been wasted.

Any vinegar irrespective of the initial source is dilute Glacial Acetic (note the spelling) Acid.

Acetic acid is a weak organic acid and never, by any stretch of the imagination, could it be called an alkali

[billt]

This post actually made me wonder if my 44 years in the chemical industry had been wasted.

Any vinegar irrespective of the initial source is dilute Glacial Acetic (note the spelling) Acid.

Acetic acid is a weak organic acid and never, by any stretch of the imagination, could it be called an alkali

 

Thanks for that post, I thought I'd lost the plot previously

[Guest IB]

I’ve posted on this before.

 

1) I think it is a mistake not to keep things as natural as possible when the birds are rearing youngsters as this is the time when the young birds gut immune system is being primed by the parents.

 

2) The only time I use CAV is with honey in the drinking water for birds coming home from the race. I did this after reading a tip in BHW that it was beneficial for humans suffering joint pain. The glucose in honey is a quick pick-me-up and also helps rehydrate the bird.

 

3) The most acidic place in the birds body is its stomach (located between crop and gizzard) where ph is between 0 & 1. It is the main barrier to microbes etc reaching the lower gut, as few organisms can withstand that level of acidity. But this idea of adding an acid to drinking water ‘to acidify the gut’ actually helps e-coli & salmonella to survive the stomach acid. Approx half an hour after exposure to a mild acidic solution - shigella, ecoli, vibrio and salmonella - are all genetically capable of mounting an Acid Tolerance Response (ATR) that protects them against extreme acidity. There was a salmonella outbreak amongst humans in US in 2006, started by contaminated orange juice (which has roughly the same acidity as CAV) and it is reckoned that this exposure to a mild acidic environment before reaching the stomach brought on ATR which protected salmonella from human stomach acid, allowing it into the lower gut to start an infection.

[peter pandy]

This post actually made me wonder if my 44 years in the chemical industry had been wasted.

Any vinegar irrespective of the initial source is dilute Glacial Acetic (note the spelling) Acid.

Acetic acid is a weak organic acid and never, by any stretch of the imagination, could it be called an alkali

 

Sir,

It is or was by any stretch of the imagination not to denegrate your post however if you spent 44 years in the chemical industry then I am afraid you are still not qualified to suggest that vinegar is a glacial acid whether dilute or not. For the unininsuated acid is determined by P.H. to quantify an acid measure on the P.H. scale from 0-7 zero being the strongest. Alkali on the P.H.scale is determined as 7-14 on the P.H. scale with 14 being the strongest. I was a Pharmaceutical expermintal operator in the chemical industry and to be perfectly honest take umbridge at the above. If you are to suggest that Acid and Acetic has no revelance you have without doubt wasted 44 years. It is an impossibility to process drugs without firstly manufacturing the initial crude stages by acidic or alkali methods with the end product having a P.H. range between 6-8 on the P.H. scale which would detemine whether the end product was in crystaline form or liquid. I am experienced in all forms of procedours in many drug manufacturing products whether crude or finished. I would suggest without rancour that you establish your facts. I have to assume that having spent 44 years in the chemical industry which I assume would be the oil - gas industry and not the pharmaceutical side of it you will have massive experience of crackers, contacters etc.

I have to concede that pure glacial acid is alkali that I nor you have any experience of working with therefore it is an irrevellence.

[Novice]

Sir,

It is or was by any stretch of the imagination not to denegrate your post however if you spent 44 years in the chemical industry then I am afraid you are still not qualified to suggest that vinegar is a glacial acid whether dilute or not. For the unininsuated acid is determined by P.H. to quantify an acid measure on the P.H. scale from 0-7 zero being the strongest. Alkali on the P.H.scale is determined as 7-14 on the P.H. scale with 14 being the strongest. I was a Pharmaceutical expermintal operator in the chemical industry and to be perfectly honest take umbridge at the above. If you are to suggest that Acid and Acetic has no revelance you have without doubt wasted 44 years. It is an impossibility to process drugs without firstly manufacturing the initial crude stages by acidic or alkali methods with the end product having a P.H. range between 6-8 on the P.H. scale which would detemine whether the end product was in crystaline form or liquid. I am experienced in all forms of procedours in many drug manufacturing products whether crude or finished. I would suggest without rancour that you establish your facts. I have to assume that having spent 44 years in the chemical industry which I assume would be the oil - gas industry and not the pharmaceutical side of it you will have massive experience of crackers, contacters etc.

I have to concede that pure glacial acid is alkali that I nor you have any experience of working with therefore it is an irrevellence.

 

Please don't be offended when I avoid all forms of flannel like yourself and repeat that your post is well off the mark.

I have an honours degree in Chemistry and worked as a Shift Manager in a Vitamin C production unit.I suppose you will now try to explain that Vitamin C which is Ascorbic acid is also alkaline.

Believe me I have worked with Glacial Acetic acid and it is acidic in nature. Yes it was common policy to dilute it and use the resultant liquid as vinegar.

I won't bother to bore any readers with a lecture in Chemistry but please believe me I am much more qualified on the subject than you can ever claim to be.

Anyone who had ever been associated with the Chemical industry would know that the logrithmic scale used to measure hydrogen ion concentration is denoted by pH not P.H. as you have quoted (not once which could be a simple mistake) but on 6 occasions which indicates lack of knowledge to me.

 

unininsuated ---please indicate what this word means so that I can expand my horizons. Do you mean unsaturated?

 

While everyone can express an opinion on these forums posting information which is incorrect, inaccurate or misleading may have disasterous consequences.

 

I close by reassuring you that vinegar and acetic acid are common names for Ethanoic Acid (whether dilute or not) with a formula of CH3COOH and are definately acidic.

 

That is my last post on the subject.

[PIGEON_MAN]

So are we the everyday fancier wasting our time and money by giving ACV all through the year or is it beneficial to the birds, weather it makes any diferance at all but I always use the organic one.

 

So are we the everyday fancier wasting our time and money by giving ACV all through the year or is it beneficial to the birds, weather it makes any diferance at all but I always use the organic one.

[andy Burgess]

So are we the everyday fancier wasting our time and money by giving ACV all through the year or is it beneficial to the birds, weather it makes any diferance at all but I always use the organic one.

 

So are we the everyday fancier wasting our time and money by giving ACV all through the year or is it beneficial to the birds, weather it makes any diferance at all but I always use the organic one.

like you Tony , the every-day fancier ,i would also like to know ............... in simple terms .

[greenlands]

I asked Owen the same question,CV.OK. without grit but a waist of time with??

Is the only reason the droppings are better for the fancier to look at because of the lower water intake ??

[steve78]

MAKES YOU WONDER WHY EVEN BOTHER GIVING IT ANY TIME,STRANGE WHY THIS CIDER VINEGAR ISNT USED MUCH FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ,MAYBE ITS NOT WHAT ITS MADE OUT TO BE,A BIT LIKE GARLIC AS ON THE INTERNET SOME SITES SAY IT CAN BE TOXIC TO ANIMALS AND BIRDS DUE TO IT EFECTING THERE BRAIN,AGAIN STRANGE WE HAVE ONLY BEEN HAVING SO MANY LOSSES SINCE USING THIS S..T THE LAST 15 YEARS ,DRINK A GLASS A DAY URSELF AND TELL ME HOW YOU FEEL AT THE END OF THE WEEK.