Snfc Gold Cup

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

So if your not happy what can and should be done to encourage a better entry to the premier race of the year??

[VMS]

So if your not happy what can and should be done to encourage a better entry to the premier race of the year??

 

Adopt the any Union rule,that would do the trick Gareth.

[mushroom]

The Gold Cup should have 4 sections flying from 4 different racepoints of an equal distance liberated at the same time. 2 racepoints from the east and 2 racepoints from the west making it fairer for all as everyone would have a more equal distance.

[geordie1234]

Big prize money overall winner then 1st each section gets a decent cash prize

[DJWa]

spread the snfc races out more

have a 2 week window either side of the gold cup with no snfc races

shorten the distance of the inland races thus making the returns better for the channel races later on

race the inland races on a sunday to avoid clashing

 

this all helps towards improving the gold cup birdage

jmo

[Guest IB]

I think the prize money for all the SNFC races needs looking at ... IMO it's a joke. It needs an annual top-up from the money in the bank, to pay out at least twice that paid at present.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Pick a racepoint and stick to it for a minimum of three years as well short term spending to get the race back on its feet and back to the top of the agenda for the majority of Scottish fanciers.

 

Treat it like the YB National in as much as you could go all year without being a member and join for this one race,paying a lower subscription.

 

£3 to send a pigeon

 

£500 to the winner of each of the sections

 

Been told of a past top national flier who stopped donating pigeons to the SNFC sale as he felt the club should be giving back to the members and the men who helped raise the money instead of constantly taking from them.He is also quoted as saying-he would not see the money being used for anything useful in his lifetime,this sadly was correct.I wonder if the money will be used to better the racing and encourage the members in our lifetime

[lanarkshire lad]

spread the snfc races out more

have a 2 week window either side of the gold cup with no snfc races

shorten the distance of the inland races thus making the returns better for the channel races later on

race the inland races on a sunday to avoid clashing

 

this all helps towards improving the gold cup birdage

jmo

Agree 100% with the spreading out of the races theres to many races running into each other which is crippling most fanciers financially.

[midnight_son]

There is only so much that can be done as there is a finite number of long distance flyers around at the moment. For me, the long term solution is to get more people into long distance racing and to do that requires a radical rethink of the race programme so that it encourages fanciers to develop a team for long distance racing. In the pre inland national days there was an excellent programme, structured well allowing 4 x channel races (over 500 miles to the central belt). That was an encouragement for folk to keep a team of channel birds, prepare them properly and have ample recovery time between the first and last to get them sitting down again thereby recycling the entries from race 1 into race 4, making the most of the available pigeon population.

 

There is a school of thought that if we have less distance races we'll have a great gold cup. I disagree - there is a great danger in trying to focus all the channel birds into one race that it will actually put people off having long distance pigeons. I for one would not be knocking my pan in all year to have one long distance race. What if you wait all year for your one wee buzz of long distance racing and it turns out like Messac this year ? That is extreme but bad races happen at long distance (regardless of route) always have and always will. For me, a programme is needed, the more people keep long distance pigeons the more suitable pigeons are available for the gold cup.

 

My solution would be to dump the first inland national or change it so that it becomes 2 liberations (one for the east side of the country and one for the west - different racpoints if necessary) and loses its "national" status. It is effectively a trial for the channel birds, a prep race with no bearing on national trophies and averages. It would take the pressure out of getting a time in from it, folk would only send birds that really need a bit of time on the wing before France rather than sending big squads to try and be competitive, usually taking a pasting in returns. All that race has to do is provide good returns so the birds are ready for the gold cup or the long race so we should take steps to try and make returns better - hence my idea to split it east and west.

 

I would then move Ypres from where it is now and have it to replace Eastbourne and allow the feds to treat it like Eastbourne and add it to their programme if they wish. This would have the benefit of allowing federation flyers to sample cross channel racing, hopefully they have a good experience and try to get more involved in future years. It would take away the mental block about going over the water.

 

Then the gold cup in its usual slot - 530 to 560 miles into Central belt

 

Having 2 races on the same weekend in recent years has been madness and detracts from both. Moving Ypres frees up the long race to be the headline act of that weekend. Hopefully we can continue joint convoy with Midlands National as that gives our birds a good start.

 

Finish off with 500 miler 2 weeks later as is traditional. Perhaps we can tag onto Midlands National again who were at Vire when we were at Clermont in 2011.

 

In Summary

 

Channel Prep/Trial race 1st Sat June

SNFC Ypres (with feds) - 3rd Sat June

SNFC Gold Cup - last Friday June

SNFC Tours/600 mile - 1st weekend July

SNFC 500 miles central belt - 3rd weekend July

 

 

That, to me, is a program that supports and develops long distance racing within the SNFC which in turn would boost the gold cup.

[frank-123]

There is only so much that can be done as there is a finite number of long distance flyers around at the moment. For me, the long term solution is to get more people into long distance racing and to do that requires a radical rethink of the race programme so that it encourages fanciers to develop a team for long distance racing. In the pre inland national days there was an excellent programme, structured well allowing 4 x channel races (over 500 miles to the central belt). That was an encouragement for folk to keep a team of channel birds, prepare them properly and have ample recovery time between the first and last to get them sitting down again thereby recycling the entries from race 1 into race 4, making the most of the available pigeon population.

 

There is a school of thought that if we have less distance races we'll have a great gold cup. I disagree - there is a great danger in trying to focus all the channel birds into one race that it will actually put people off having long distance pigeons. I for one would not be knocking my pan in all year to have one long distance race. What if you wait all year for your one wee buzz of long distance racing and it turns out like Messac this year ? That is extreme but bad races happen at long distance (regardless of route) always have and always will. For me, a programme is needed, the more people keep long distance pigeons the more suitable pigeons are available for the gold cup.

 

My solution would be to dump the first inland national or change it so that it becomes 2 liberations (one for the east side of the country and one for the west - different racpoints if necessary) and loses its "national" status. It is effectively a trial for the channel birds, a prep race with no bearing on national trophies and averages. It would take the pressure out of getting a time in from it, folk would only send birds that really need a bit of time on the wing before France rather than sending big squads to try and be competitive, usually taking a pasting in returns. All that race has to do is provide good returns so the birds are ready for the gold cup or the long race so we should take steps to try and make returns better - hence my idea to split it east and west.

 

I would then move Ypres from where it is now and have it to replace Eastbourne and allow the feds to treat it like Eastbourne and add it to their programme if they wish. This would have the benefit of allowing federation flyers to sample cross channel racing, hopefully they have a good experience and try to get more involved in future years. It would take away the mental block about going over the water.

 

Then the gold cup in its usual slot - 530 to 560 miles into Central belt

 

Having 2 races on the same weekend in recent years has been madness and detracts from both. Moving Ypres frees up the long race to be the headline act of that weekend. Hopefully we can continue joint convoy with Midlands National as that gives our birds a good start.

 

Finish off with 500 miler 2 weeks later as is traditional. Perhaps we can tag onto Midlands National again who were at Vire when we were at Clermont in 2011.

 

In Summary

 

Channel Prep/Trial race 1st Sat June

SNFC Ypres (with feds) - 3rd Sat June

SNFC Gold Cup - last Friday June

SNFC Tours/600 mile - 1st weekend July

SNFC 500 miles central belt - 3rd weekend July

 

 

That, to me, is a program that supports and develops long distance racing within the SNFC which in turn would boost the gold cup.

 

Great post i would also like to add make the gold cup free entry

selling raffle tickets at all race marking could help pay for the free entry into the gold cup rather than the gold cup winner putting a youngster up for sale in the snfc latebred sale this could be held back to present at the snfc presentation to the lucky ticket holder

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

There is only so much that can be done as there is a finite number of long distance flyers around at the moment. For me, the long term solution is to get more people into long distance racing and to do that requires a radical rethink of the race programme so that it encourages fanciers to develop a team for long distance racing. In the pre inland national days there was an excellent programme, structured well allowing 4 x channel races (over 500 miles to the central belt). That was an encouragement for folk to keep a team of channel birds, prepare them properly and have ample recovery time between the first and last to get them sitting down again thereby recycling the entries from race 1 into race 4, making the most of the available pigeon population.

 

There is a school of thought that if we have less distance races we'll have a great gold cup. I disagree - there is a great danger in trying to focus all the channel birds into one race that it will actually put people off having long distance pigeons. I for one would not be knocking my pan in all year to have one long distance race. What if you wait all year for your one wee buzz of long distance racing and it turns out like Messac this year ? That is extreme but bad races happen at long distance (regardless of route) always have and always will. For me, a programme is needed, the more people keep long distance pigeons the more suitable pigeons are available for the gold cup.

 

My solution would be to dump the first inland national or change it so that it becomes 2 liberations (one for the east side of the country and one for the west - different racpoints if necessary) and loses its "national" status. It is effectively a trial for the channel birds, a prep race with no bearing on national trophies and averages. It would take the pressure out of getting a time in from it, folk would only send birds that really need a bit of time on the wing before France rather than sending big squads to try and be competitive, usually taking a pasting in returns. All that race has to do is provide good returns so the birds are ready for the gold cup or the long race so we should take steps to try and make returns better - hence my idea to split it east and west.

 

I would then move Ypres from where it is now and have it to replace Eastbourne and allow the feds to treat it like Eastbourne and add it to their programme if they wish. This would have the benefit of allowing federation flyers to sample cross channel racing, hopefully they have a good experience and try to get more involved in future years. It would take away the mental block about going over the water.

 

Then the gold cup in its usual slot - 530 to 560 miles into Central belt

 

Having 2 races on the same weekend in recent years has been madness and detracts from both. Moving Ypres frees up the long race to be the headline act of that weekend. Hopefully we can continue joint convoy with Midlands National as that gives our birds a good start.

 

Finish off with 500 miler 2 weeks later as is traditional. Perhaps we can tag onto Midlands National again who were at Vire when we were at Clermont in 2011.

 

In Summary

 

Channel Prep/Trial race 1st Sat June

SNFC Ypres (with feds) - 3rd Sat June

SNFC Gold Cup - last Friday June

SNFC Tours/600 mile - 1st weekend July

SNFC 500 miles central belt - 3rd weekend July

 

 

That, to me, is a program that supports and develops long distance racing within the SNFC which in turn would boost the gold cup.

 

Some very good and valid points Jamie, program is excellent, and with there being 5 Saturdays in June for 2012 & 2013 this would then mean that there is a 2 weeks between each of the races except the Gold Cup and the Longest race which shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

The inland national that you propose with 2 seperate liberations could be given a classification of Semi National winners. Still an accolade to win without giving the race the full status.

[dal2]

Like Jamies ideas and would not like to see any less than 4 channel races. I use the inland nats as prep races as they are duplicates wae the solway and if I am going I might aswell be in the nat as well, tho no much chance wae the water doos I have,. After a poor year last year as regards losses my distance team is decimated so might have to go to the inland nat, be it one or two, wae the sprinters and chance my SNFC arm there.

 

The gold cup is the holy grail and should be looked after very carefully, I get the impression that there are loads of fanciers who set their best birds up for the likes of Ypres! They should be encouraged to send their best to the best race!!! JMO

[geordie1234]

Widny be me racing to try and become a SEMI NATIONAL winner anyway your either win a national or dont imho

[lanarkshire lad]

Like Jamies ideas and would not like to see any less than 4 channel races. I use the inland nats as prep races as they are duplicates wae the solway and if I am going I might aswell be in the nat as well, tho no much chance wae the water doos I have,. After a poor year last year as regards losses my distance team is decimated so might have to go to the inland nat, be it one or two, wae the sprinters and chance my SNFC arm there.

 

The gold cup is the holy grail and should be looked after very carefully, I get the impression that there are loads of fanciers who set their best birds up for the likes of Ypres! They should be encouraged to send their best to the best race!!! JMO

Was it the fed programme that Decimated your team or the National races?

[dal2]

Was it the fed programme that Decimated your team or the National races?

 

I lost a 1st Secta winner, a hen wae two nat tickets and four 2yr olds that I was settin for the gold cup at Marlborough wae the SNFC which was a duplicate for the solway and then never seen a feather frae three entries at Messac!

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

There is only so much that can be done as there is a finite number of long distance flyers around at the moment. For me, the long term solution is to get more people into long distance racing and to do that requires a radical rethink of the race programme so that it encourages fanciers to develop a team for long distance racing. In the pre inland national days there was an excellent programme, structured well allowing 4 x channel races (over 500 miles to the central belt). That was an encouragement for folk to keep a team of channel birds, prepare them properly and have ample recovery time between the first and last to get them sitting down again thereby recycling the entries from race 1 into race 4, making the most of the available pigeon population.

 

There is a school of thought that if we have less distance races we'll have a great gold cup. I disagree - there is a great danger in trying to focus all the channel birds into one race that it will actually put people off having long distance pigeons. I for one would not be knocking my pan in all year to have one long distance race. What if you wait all year for your one wee buzz of long distance racing and it turns out like Messac this year ? That is extreme but bad races happen at long distance (regardless of route) always have and always will. For me, a programme is needed, the more people keep long distance pigeons the more suitable pigeons are available for the gold cup.

 

My solution would be to dump the first inland national or change it so that it becomes 2 liberations (one for the east side of the country and one for the west - different racpoints if necessary) and loses its "national" status. It is effectively a trial for the channel birds, a prep race with no bearing on national trophies and averages. It would take the pressure out of getting a time in from it, folk would only send birds that really need a bit of time on the wing before France rather than sending big squads to try and be competitive, usually taking a pasting in returns. All that race has to do is provide good returns so the birds are ready for the gold cup or the long race so we should take steps to try and make returns better - hence my idea to split it east and west.

 

I would then move Ypres from where it is now and have it to replace Eastbourne and allow the feds to treat it like Eastbourne and add it to their programme if they wish. This would have the benefit of allowing federation flyers to sample cross channel racing, hopefully they have a good experience and try to get more involved in future years. It would take away the mental block about going over the water.

 

Then the gold cup in its usual slot - 530 to 560 miles into Central belt

 

Having 2 races on the same weekend in recent years has been madness and detracts from both. Moving Ypres frees up the long race to be the headline act of that weekend. Hopefully we can continue joint convoy with Midlands National as that gives our birds a good start.

 

Finish off with 500 miler 2 weeks later as is traditional. Perhaps we can tag onto Midlands National again who were at Vire when we were at Clermont in 2011.

 

In Summary

 

Channel Prep/Trial race 1st Sat June

SNFC Ypres (with feds) - 3rd Sat June

SNFC Gold Cup - last Friday June

SNFC Tours/600 mile - 1st weekend July

SNFC 500 miles central belt - 3rd weekend July

 

 

That, to me, is a program that supports and develops long distance racing within the SNFC which in turn would boost the gold cup.

 

I'd stick my hand up at the AGM in support of this program.One thing I think could maybe improve the said program would be having Ypres on the third Friday in June if possible.Lead to believe there would be an awful lot of traffic to contend with if this was a Saturday race.

 

Back to Gold Cup I'd like to see a way of edging towards a joint convoy with the SNRPC for one race a year,the Gold Cup being the one.The SNRPC seem a bit more stable as far as race program is concerned than the SNFC and can't imagine them straying too far from Reims next season.I'd like to see the SNFC at Reims being liberated at the same time as the SNRPC-call it whatever you wish and present the results in whatever format,it'd be a good day for Scottish pigeon racing in my opinion

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Widny be me racing to try and become a SEMI NATIONAL winner anyway your either win a national or dont imho

If there are two libs then you can't be given the classification of being a National winner. Semi national status has been used for decades in Belgium and as far I'm aware it is very successful.

[Henrik]

I'd stick my hand up at the AGM in support of this program.One thing I think could maybe improve the said program would be having Ypres on the third Friday in June if possible.Lead to believe there would be an awful lot of traffic to contend with if this was a Saturday race.

 

Back to Gold Cup I'd like to see a way of edging towards a joint convoy with the SNRPC for one race a year,the Gold Cup being the one.The SNRPC seem a bit more stable as far as race program is concerned than the SNFC and can't imagine them straying too far from Reims next season.I'd like to see the SNFC at Reims being liberated at the same time as the SNRPC-call it whatever you wish and present the results in whatever format,it'd be a good day for Scottish pigeon racing in my opinion

Well if this happens I WONT be at the Gold Cup race.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

If there are two libs then you can't be given the classification of being a National winner. Semi national status has used for decades in Belgium and as far I'm aware it is very successful.

 

Its does beg the question why bother with it??Let the feds create their own combines and amals for inland races.

 

I understand the Inland races are big earners for the SNFC but I personally would prefer it if they weren't in the program at all(I include the YB race in that)

 

Well if this happens I WONT be at the Gold Cup race.

 

Why not ?

[novo10]

I'd stick my hand up at the AGM in support of this program.One thing I think could maybe improve the said program would be having Ypres on the third Friday in June if possible.Lead to believe there would be an awful lot of traffic to contend with if this was a Saturday race.

 

Back to Gold Cup I'd like to see a way of edging towards a joint convoy with the SNRPC for one race a year,the Gold Cup being the one.The SNRPC seem a bit more stable as far as race program is concerned than the SNFC and can't imagine them straying too far from Reims next season.I'd like to see the SNFC at Reims being liberated at the same time as the SNRPC-call it whatever you wish and present the results in whatever format,it'd be a good day for Scottish pigeon racing in my opinion

lewis we dont need to joint lib wae snrpc they should all rejoin national and make it one national only forget that one m8

[geordie1234]

If the SNFC put big prize money up you would soon see the snrpc guys coming back i would imagine.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

lewis we dont need to joint lib wae snrpc they should all rejoin national and make it one national only forget that one m8

 

Of course thats what should happen but will it??

 

If there is a ever going to be racing again in Scotland across the channel involving every member eligable and willing to compete I think it'll be a drawn out step by step affair-one joint race a year could be the first step towards ending the current madness

 

Anyway its a waste of typing time Your right Novo the idea should be forgotten about

[Henrik]

Its does beg the question why bother with it??Let the feds create their own combines and amals for inland races.

 

I understand the Inland races are big earners for the SNFC but I personally would prefer it if they weren't in the program at all(I include the YB race in that)

 

 

 

Why not ?

Because the SNRPC was formed to allow people who tried to destroy the SHU an avenue to fly their birds over the water after they split Feds and left fanciers with nothing. Maybe you cannot remember this,but I will never forgive or forget what these people done to me and my Federation.

[bullcock]

I think the key to higher birdage in the gold cup is having a good 1st race, if as has happened in the last few years we get poor returns from the 1st race this has an effect on the rest of the program.

I think the further west the 1st race is the worst the returns, I would like us to stay on the east side, as we have been getting good returns from Eastbourne & Ypres.

raising the prize money wont increase the birdage as every national flyer wants to go to the gold cup regaurdless of the prize money it's the lack of birds that is stopping them, usually due to a poor 1st race.JMO

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Because the SNRPC was formed to allow people who tried to destroy the SHU an avenue to fly their birds over the water after they split Feds and left fanciers with nothing. Maybe you cannot remember this,but I will never forgive or forget what these people done to me and my Federation.

 

Admittedly I'm not as clued up as some on the SNRPC formation and its reason,main reason being I was quite young at the time and had no interest in pigeon politics,only pigeons.

 

This may well be the case Henrik but this is not about federation racing and who we like or don't like,its for the greater good and the benefit of the pigeons racing at national level.I could name a few fanciers in the SNRPC that combined will have raised thousands of pounds for the SNFC over the years so its swings and roundabouts