Inland Snfc Races

[lightning fast]

The interest of the majority of fanciers has really changed in the last 20 or so years.There was a time in Scotland when channel racing was the be all and end all.Not so much now unfortunately

 

So obviously the SNFC have felt the need to cater for this with these inland Nationals.Which are not only to the detrement of their later channel events,the original soul purpose for the formation of the club,but they are also having a huge hit on federation birdages.These federations and combines need the birdage and money a lot more than the SNFC does.After all club racing is the bread and butter.

 

There is no denying some absolutely terrific performances were put up last weekend but regardless of this I feel these races are really just money spinners that take from organisations a lot worst off financially than the SNFC.I think most people deep down would agree that the races really don't carry the same prestige and exceitment of the channel races either.

 

In my opinion the SNFC should focus on channel racing leaving inland racing to federations,combines and amals.Feel there would be a lot more entries for the channel races this way and the feds wouldn't be going down the road with empty transporters for their last three or four races.Everyone would benefit.

 

I'd also like to see a change in the national's fee paying policy and perhaps look into the best way to organise a pay per race kinna system.This way you only pay for the races you go to which again I feel would help with their birdages in the channel races.

 

 

Some people who dont carry a lot of distance birds like the inland nationals, where the birdage is high. if feds joined to form a proper Amal in central scotland yea it would be worth keeping inland racing to feds and Amals, but inland nationals are more popular, due to demand or the birdage would not be 4000+

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Some people who dont carry a lot of distance birds like the inland nationals, where the birdage is high. if feds joined to form a proper Amal in central scotland yea it would be worth keeping inland racing to feds and Amals, but inland nationals are more popular, due to demand or the birdage would not be 4000+

 

Yeh the masses seem to now prefer inland racing and rightfully so would like recognition on a national level.Incidentally two of fliers I consider the best inland racers in Scotland did not feature on last weeks national result Unsure if they sent or not

[bullcock]

I think the idea of inland nationals is good but the way the last 2 1st inland races have went has done more harm than good, the further west we go the worse the returns, wither some like it or not that seems to be the case. most feds fly the east route,the next national race is eastbourne so why do we jump across the country for the 1st inland race?

If we stayed on the east coast somewhere around norwich or whatever I think the returns would be better, I no some will go on about overfly advantages and other pros and cons but the return of the birds must be the main priority when deciding a race point.

[Henrik]

derick when the fraserburgh was one club 40+ members the thing was to have a go at the distance i and wilson noble used to take the NATIONAL CLOCKS THROUGH TO ABERDEEN SOME TIMES THIRTY CLOCKS BUT MOST FANCIERS JUST KEPT ANY THING TO 12 TO 24 BIRDS YOU GOT THE FEW THAT JUST COULD NOT HELP THEM SELVES AND WAS CALLED MOB FLYERS but when the big races from france came roon every boady came doon with there single entry sending 3 was a big team and the performances put up speaks for them selves but there was so much interest in the NATIONAL AT THAT TIME the birdage was 2,000 to nearly 9,000 birds but the sad thing is the THE S.N.F.C has a lot in putting fanciers oot the spot by these stupid rules if you dont send in a resignation letter your banned from club racing also SNFC there was none of thes rules when this club was the speak before every year what have you got lined up for the gold cup and the other GREAT RACES WE HAD no wonder the NATIONAL IS SLIDING SO FAST there was none of these rules if you dont send in a letter of resignation your banned for life when you have not got a bird to send to the race crazy as the following year these same fanciers would be putting birds again but are now forced to give there sport up just because a nut case makes a stupid suggestion as above (IF YOU ARE NOT JOINED BY 1ST O APRIL YOU ARE RESIGNED IF YOU DECIDE YOU HAVE A BIRD THAT YOU THINK CAN COMPETE PAY THE PENELTY OF £6 IS THIS TO SIMPLE and gareth this inland races are damageing this once great club in fact it wont go on much longer if some thing is not done about it i must be a bit o a nut case rambling on @ on about it but all these plonkers that think there is too NATIONALS is living in coo coo land why can too clubs sending 100 to 200 birds away and call it a NATIONAL SURLY A SIMPLE LETTER ASKING FOR A MEETING AND TRY AND THRASH THIS SHU BUSINESS OOT and at least we can call it a NATIONAL OPEN FOR WHOLE O SCOTLAND and yes danny prise money into all sections would give a big hand in re- kindeling interest in SNFC

This SHU business as you call it doesnt need thrashing out, Scotland has only one National and its open to all. All ypu have to do is pay your dues to the SHU and you can fly in the SNFC, so we at this moment in time have a National that is open to the Whole of Scotland. Mibe you should try joining the NFC without paying your dues to the RPRA, think you,ll find out it wont happen. The SHU is and always will be the ruling body for pigeon racing into Scotland despite what a minority so called fanciers may think. I will agree that we maybe need to look at this resignation thing but all that is required is a letter to the AGM to change this rule which by the way was brought in by someone who is no longer allowed to race with the SNFC to suit his own requirments at that time.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

This SHU business as you call it doesnt need thrashing out, Scotland has only one National and its open to all. All ypu have to do is pay your dues to the SHU and you can fly in the SNFC, so we at this moment in time have a National that is open to the Whole of Scotland. Mibe you should try joining the NFC without paying your dues to the RPRA, think you,ll find out it wont happen. The SHU is and always will be the ruling body for pigeon racing into Scotland despite what a minority so called fanciers may think. I will agree that we maybe need to look at this resignation thing but all that is required is a letter to the AGM to change this rule which by the way was brought in by someone who is no longer allowed to race with the SNFC to suit his own requirments at that time.

 

 

Dont hold back any Bobby :002:

[Henrik]

Dont hold back any Bobby :002:

Never do Tam prob is Truth hurts some folks. Surprised they aint took it off hehe

[walterbmasson]

henrik the post is damaging the SNFC and we all know the SHU is our governing boady and all it takes for members is to join and i also know that the SNFC IS OPEN TO THE WHOLE O SCOTLAND but also is SNRPC and its defentely not the best birds that goes to either of these clubs and once a rift is started some fanciers jumps ship but its not so easy to admit that it was a hasty decision i my self and i bet hundereds more would like to see these clubs combined into one as it is doing either side any good and i think speaking about it will change some minds that enough is enough and get back to racing our birds to the extreme distances o 5 6 @700miles

[Henrik]

henrik the post is damaging the SNFC and we all know the SHU is our governing boady and all it takes for members is to join and i also know that the SNFC IS OPEN TO THE WHOLE O SCOTLAND but also is SNRPC and its defentely not the best birds that goes to either of these clubs and once a rift is started some fanciers jumps ship but its not so easy to admit that it was a hasty decision i my self and i bet hundereds more would like to see these clubs combined into one as it is doing either side any good and i think speaking about it will change some minds that enough is enough and get back to racing our birds to the extreme distances o 5 6 @700miles

Walter I think you will find that the SNRPC was founded to allow a few people to fly their birds in what they call a National supposedly open to all. I think you may find that the SNFC is the only National Club that is truly open to the whole of Scotland, only those who are suspended from an organisation are prevented from flying in it, the SNRPC on the other hand prevents anyone they dont like from flying with them. In my opinion there is only one choice when it comes down to it and going by the ammount of members coming back to the SNFC who were previously with the SNRPC(and I,m only going with what I saw at my own marking station)we will soon have only one Club again and those who caused the split will be left to fly tumblers or horsemen

[geordie1234]

Walter I think you will find that the SNRPC was founded to allow a few people to fly their birds in what they call a National supposedly open to all. I think you may find that the SNFC is the only National Club that is truly open to the whole of Scotland, only those who are suspended from an organisation are prevented from flying in it, the SNRPC on the other hand prevents anyone they dont like from flying with them. In my opinion there is only one choice when it comes down to it and going by the ammount of members coming back to the SNFC who were previously with the SNRPC(and I,m only going with what I saw at my own marking station)we will soon have only one Club again and those who caused the split will be left to fly tumblers or horsemen

[midnight_son]

An interesting debate and one which is imperative to the future of long distance racing in Scotland. I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit and I tend to agree with Gareth, that these races do more harm than good to the channel entries. I would also caution against the idea that a yearling inland national would be a good compromise as the yearlings are the very birds that we need to look after to get them to the stage of going to the channel. By “look after†I don’t mean protect them from going over 300 miles, on the contrary, I think it is very important they do get over 300 miles but I question whether a national race provides the best balance of education and protection.

 

When I was a kid in the mid to late 80s and 90s all my dads good channel pigeons won from the Dorchester open as yearlings, that was the proving ground and if they did it from there they became big channel hopes the following season. So what is different between Dorchester of 15-20 years ago and the inland nationals of today ? I tend to think that quite simply national racing by its nature is harder. As soon as you mix up birds from North South East and West in one liberation the difficulty is ramped up. We never thought getting half home was a good race when it was fed only racing from the coast but its getting that way now with inland nationals.

 

However, I don’t think it is as easy as saying we’ll just get rid of them. They’re here now and we have to manage the situation as its not as simple as it sounds. There are the added complications of the financial weakness of federations these days and the SNRPC hovering around as well. If the SNFC put an end to inland nationals just like that then what would happen ? Rightly or wrongly many feds have come to rely on the SNFC to organise their longest race. If that option is taken away then the SNRPC could step in to offer that service and pick up a lot of duplicate entries from federation flyers who have no strong affiliation to SNFC. In addition to that it would put a hole in the SNFC balance sheet unless channel entries went up significantly (probably not as our feds would still be going with SNRPC and we’d still be losing a stupid number of prospective channel candidates).

 

I also note some over simplified comments about the birdage showing the huge appetite for inland nationals amongst members. This is a red herring in my view. I’ve sent loads of pigeons to inland nationals, many more than I’ve sent to channel nationals. Is that because I love inland nationals ? Not in the least. I send to them because I am obliged to enter and time in if I want to compete for the averages which I do as I believe to win the averages in your section should be the aim of all members. I am also obliged to send to the 2nd of them at least as my federation goes joint convoy and I have no other option for an over 300 mile race. Last year I was lucky enough to win the SNFC averages sending I think 12 to Bovingdon, 7 to Eastbourne, 2 to Reims, 6 to Ypres, 2 to Bourges and 4 to Clermont. Taking those at face value you could say that clearly my preference is for inland nationals as I sent more to those races. In fact the reverse is true, the inland races provide least fascination for me and the two most precious races to me were Reims and Bourges with a total of 4 entries and I think you’d find a similar pattern for all the long distance men. We all send to the inland nationals because for various reasons we do have to rather than because we want to.

 

One point that has not been mentioned is the way that inland nationals race can alienate potential members of the national. Guys that have done well in the club forced to send to a national race if they want to win their club average or fed open race. Now, the hardened national men can maybe take it on the chin if they get a hard race and brush it off, come out swinging the following year but some of the guys who we may hope to attract to the national can be wiped out and they’ll never want to join the national for the distance races if all they have is bad experiences. It would be interesting to know just how many new members have graduated from inland races through to the 500 mile plus races, my perception is very few in my area, and no wonder, if they keep suffering blows at 300 to 400 miles they can never build a team to go for the channel.

 

So, here is my solution which I think would be worth a try. I think we need to keep some kind of race in place (whether one or two I don’t really care) to provide experience for young pigeons coming up, to provide time on the wing for those who wish to enter channel pigeons and to prevent the loss of floating members to SNRPC. However, I would change from full scale inland nationals to two separate events, one for the west side of the country and one for the east. Say Section B, C, D and G in one and Sections A, E and F in the other. Section D would be the splitting point between East and West so they could arguably be in either side. Those members in those sections can decide which racepoints they want to use (not necessarily the same place for both groups) in conjunction with their feds. The SNFC can do all the organising and secretarial stuff as they currently do in return for taking whatever profit is achieved. The races are not full scale nationals and do not count towards averages. They are basically west and east amals organised by the SNFC. They would still be hugely prestigious to win but would hopefully provide a safer passage for the pigeons with them all heading in one general direction, although it must be accepted that there is never a guarantee of a good race, just moving the percentages more in our favour.

 

Possible outcomes from this course of action:-

 

1. By removing these races from the averages, the national men trying to plan their entries across 4 channel races don’t have to worry about covering inland nationals with a strong entry so less risk of these races knocking birds out of the channel picture.

2. SNFC maintains a level of income from these races and facilitates feds getting down the road to a good distance, also maintaining the link between feds and SNFC to theoretically attract members who duplicate. Reduce the chance of SNRPC hovering up the federation members.

3. Try and provide a safer experience of 300 mile racing for yearlings thus converting a higher proportion into experienced 2 yr olds who can be confidently targeted at channel races.

4. Provide a better experience for club racers who are dipping their toe in national waters via these east and west amals. Hopefully they get better returns while still getting a taste of competing on a bigger stage.

[Henrik]

Very good post Jamie and a lot of thought has gone in to it. Maybe put this in a letter and we can bring it up at the Symposium and then get it as a proposal for the AGM.

[dal2]

An interesting debate and one which is imperative to the future of long distance racing in Scotland. I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit and I tend to agree with Gareth, that these races do more harm than good to the channel entries. I would also caution against the idea that a yearling inland national would be a good compromise as the yearlings are the very birds that we need to look after to get them to the stage of going to the channel. By “look after†I don’t mean protect them from going over 300 miles, on the contrary, I think it is very important they do get over 300 miles but I question whether a national race provides the best balance of education and protection.

 

When I was a kid in the mid to late 80s and 90s all my dads good channel pigeons won from the Dorchester open as yearlings, that was the proving ground and if they did it from there they became big channel hopes the following season. So what is different between Dorchester of 15-20 years ago and the inland nationals of today ? I tend to think that quite simply national racing by its nature is harder. As soon as you mix up birds from North South East and West in one liberation the difficulty is ramped up. We never thought getting half home was a good race when it was fed only racing from the coast but its getting that way now with inland nationals.

 

However, I don’t think it is as easy as saying we’ll just get rid of them. They’re here now and we have to manage the situation as its not as simple as it sounds. There are the added complications of the financial weakness of federations these days and the SNRPC hovering around as well. If the SNFC put an end to inland nationals just like that then what would happen ? Rightly or wrongly many feds have come to rely on the SNFC to organise their longest race. If that option is taken away then the SNRPC could step in to offer that service and pick up a lot of duplicate entries from federation flyers who have no strong affiliation to SNFC. In addition to that it would put a hole in the SNFC balance sheet unless channel entries went up significantly (probably not as our feds would still be going with SNRPC and we’d still be losing a stupid number of prospective channel candidates).

 

I also note some over simplified comments about the birdage showing the huge appetite for inland nationals amongst members. This is a red herring in my view. I’ve sent loads of pigeons to inland nationals, many more than I’ve sent to channel nationals. Is that because I love inland nationals ? Not in the least. I send to them because I am obliged to enter and time in if I want to compete for the averages which I do as I believe to win the averages in your section should be the aim of all members. I am also obliged to send to the 2nd of them at least as my federation goes joint convoy and I have no other option for an over 300 mile race. Last year I was lucky enough to win the SNFC averages sending I think 12 to Bovingdon, 7 to Eastbourne, 2 to Reims, 6 to Ypres, 2 to Bourges and 4 to Clermont. Taking those at face value you could say that clearly my preference is for inland nationals as I sent more to those races. In fact the reverse is true, the inland races provide least fascination for me and the two most precious races to me were Reims and Bourges with a total of 4 entries and I think you’d find a similar pattern for all the long distance men. We all send to the inland nationals because for various reasons we do have to rather than because we want to.

 

One point that has not been mentioned is the way that inland nationals race can alienate potential members of the national. Guys that have done well in the club forced to send to a national race if they want to win their club average or fed open race. Now, the hardened national men can maybe take it on the chin if they get a hard race and brush it off, come out swinging the following year but some of the guys who we may hope to attract to the national can be wiped out and they’ll never want to join the national for the distance races if all they have is bad experiences. It would be interesting to know just how many new members have graduated from inland races through to the 500 mile plus races, my perception is very few in my area, and no wonder, if they keep suffering blows at 300 to 400 miles they can never build a team to go for the channel.

 

So, here is my solution which I think would be worth a try. I think we need to keep some kind of race in place (whether one or two I don’t really care) to provide experience for young pigeons coming up, to provide time on the wing for those who wish to enter channel pigeons and to prevent the loss of floating members to SNRPC. However, I would change from full scale inland nationals to two separate events, one for the west side of the country and one for the east. Say Section B, C, D and G in one and Sections A, E and F in the other. Section D would be the splitting point between East and West so they could arguably be in either side. Those members in those sections can decide which racepoints they want to use (not necessarily the same place for both groups) in conjunction with their feds. The SNFC can do all the organising and secretarial stuff as they currently do in return for taking whatever profit is achieved. The races are not full scale nationals and do not count towards averages. They are basically west and east amals organised by the SNFC. They would still be hugely prestigious to win but would hopefully provide a safer passage for the pigeons with them all heading in one general direction, although it must be accepted that there is never a guarantee of a good race, just moving the percentages more in our favour.

 

Possible outcomes from this course of action:-

 

1. By removing these races from the averages, the national men trying to plan their entries across 4 channel races don’t have to worry about covering inland nationals with a strong entry so less risk of these races knocking birds out of the channel picture.

2. SNFC maintains a level of income from these races and facilitates feds getting down the road to a good distance, also maintaining the link between feds and SNFC to theoretically attract members who duplicate. Reduce the chance of SNRPC hovering up the federation members.

3. Try and provide a safer experience of 300 mile racing for yearlings thus converting a higher proportion into experienced 2 yr olds who can be confidently targeted at channel races.

4. Provide a better experience for club racers who are dipping their toe in national waters via these east and west amals. Hopefully they get better returns while still getting a taste of competing on a bigger stage.

 

I agree with most of yer post mate but the Amal situation needs more clarification in my opinion! Why would the Solway be in the same Amal as the east feds? Are we not on two diffo sides of the country?

[midnight_son]

agree with most of yer post mate but the Amal situation needs more clarification in my opinion! Why would the Solway be in the same Amal as the east feds? Are we not on two diffo sides of the country?

 

 

 

Section A is Solway I think ? I think I've got you in with E and F - Lanarkshire and Ayrshire side.

[dal2]

Section A is Solway I think ? I think I've got you in with E and F - Lanarkshire and Ayrshire side.

 

Sorry Jamie, my brain faded at critical point!!!!

I retract and then agree 99%

 

I am no too sure that the organisations in the west could get together on this! The Moffat hills seem tae be a major issue for the the lads above us and if their birds wer over here then the hills would be an obstacle but then again the drag of their numbers woould probs have the solway birds over the east side?

[midnight_son]

You had me doubting myself there !!

[lightning fast]

midnight son, very good idea, id vote for that, its worth a try

[Guest stb-]

Sorry Jamie, my brain faded at critical point!!!!

I retract and then agree 99%

 

I am no too sure that the organisations in the west could get together on this! The Moffat hills seem tae be a major issue for the the lads above us and if their birds wer over here then the hills would be an obstacle but then again the drag of their numbers woould probs have the solway birds over the east side?

YE WILL HAVE A POINT THERE STEVE ABOOT THE HILLS JUST AFTER YE ,, THATS USUALLY THE VELOCITY KILLER COMMING UP THROUGH THERE ,, I KNOW MARLBOROUGH WAS WON DIRECT NORTH OF YOUS BUT THATS WITH EVERY THING IN THE FAVOUR WAY THE EAST WIND ETC ,, ON A NORMAL DAY ALL YOUR BIRDS WILL BE HOME AND LOCKED UP FOR THE NIGHT AFORE YE GET A PIGEON TIMED IN AYRSHIRE [ IE WEST IN THE WIND AT ALL ] JMO BUT AM RIGHT

[Rebus]

I have always been against inland nationals but iwould probably agree to a one with yearlings only which would not affect the entries in the REAL nationals

[dal2]

YE WILL HAVE A POINT THERE STEVE ABOOT THE HILLS JUST AFTER YE ,, THATS USUALLY THE VELOCITY KILLER COMMING UP THROUGH THERE ,, I KNOW MARLBOROUGH WAS WON DIRECT NORTH OF YOUS BUT THATS WITH EVERY THING IN THE FAVOUR WAY THE EAST WIND ETC ,, ON A NORMAL DAY ALL YOUR BIRDS WILL BE HOME AND LOCKED UP FOR THE NIGHT AFORE YE GET A PIGEON TIMED IN AYRSHIRE [ IE WEST IN THE WIND AT ALL ] JMO BUT AM RIGHT

 

Ye yer right Rab that has been the way Moses was a boy?

That is my only concern way Jamies proposal and, ironically, for it to work we in the south would have to be in wae the Borders and Fife to level the field but that would have them gan bonkers doon here!

[sj irving jnr]

Get rid of inland nationals,there destroying what the snfc was made for LONG DISTANCE RACING Go back to the old days rennes, nantes and falaise or whatever you want to call them.

[dal2]

Get rid of inland nationals,there destroying what the snfc was made for LONG DISTANCE RACING Go back to the old days rennes, nantes and falaise or whatever you want to call them.

 

No fussed either way Scotty but could the solway get tae the coast, financially,? We would be lookin for a lift! but that was the norm before the inland nats so suppose we would again?

Do you think it encourages new fanciers/members tae compete?( no doon here obviously cos there aint none)

[Guest bigda]

would be a silly race for yearling's, if it was to turn out like the way it has over the last 2 years, you need yearling's to make up to the next years nationals, yearlings should go with clubs and feds only, as all the eggs will not be in the one basket, giving the members time to build a team up, if you put them in the national and have a bad race you are back to square one, in its favor there are a few for some, if you made it not count as, or for averages that would help, there are those that have yearling's capable to fly the 300 mile mark

and there are others, that only need to send sprint type birds, to get an advantage, with this type of bird,fanciers flying short distances can get a march on other fliers, with this type of race anything up to 40 min in front of there counter parts,that cant be fair, abandon the averages for that race and it will help

fanciers from sending more birds than he needs to get in on the result.

[Chris Little]

Get rid of inland nationals,there destroying what the snfc was made for LONG DISTANCE RACING Go back to the old days rennes, nantes and falaise or whatever you want to call them.

 

Words of wisdom from my buddy

 

Time to shelf these pointless inland races

[alec guinness]

have followed this thread from the start and still believe this is a question for the end of season and not after a poor first race(although the feds returns were not great marlbourgh weekend) .!! the main issue from what i can make out is that the two inland nationals in some peoples opinion on pb are taking birds away from the channel races,from a membership of roughly 1100 members the following sent to each race in 2010.

 

BOVINGDON 718 MEMBERS.

EASTBOURNE 690 MEMBERS.

REIMS 397 MEMBERS.

BOURGES 114 MEMBERS.

YPRES 425 MEMBERS.

CLERMONT 311 MEMBERS.

 

not sure what to make of the above and with it getting to that time of night. :D personally we will hope to send to all races. :) :)

[Clintpark Lofts]

I agree with most of yer post mate but the Amal situation needs more clarification in my opinion! Why would the Solway be in the same Amal as the east feds? Are we not on two diffo sides of the country?

 

I agree with most of yer post mate but the Amal situation needs more clarification in my opinion! Why would the Solway be in the same Amal as the east feds? Are we not on two diffo sides of the country?

 

Well said Stevie. I agree with what you're saying

 

Words of wisdom from my buddy

 

Time to shelf these pointless inland races