birdman55678 Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 if a bird(through telling from its eye) has got the makings of a good bird, then y havent u all got a loft full of champions? just a question as i know jack about eyesign? wot in the eye tells u thats a good bird? and why have some champion birds,.. have not got good eyesign?....paul Paul, I really don't know where to start here but I will give it a try. Anyone can breed a loft full of good eyesign birds, its actually very easy if you stay within the family. Not all good eyesign birds are racers. Not all good eyesign birds will win in the eyesign shows. You are right on all of that but to say that champion birds do not have good eyesign is a miss-statement. All champions do have good eyesign, maybe not good breeding eyesign as all winners definately will not breed winners. What most eyesign people look for in a eye is for their breeders, eyesign is a tool and only one of many, the non-believers will never be convinced and should never even be approached about eyesign as their mind has already been closed on the subject. But for those who want more knowledge that eyesign is one of many avenues. Jack has much knowledge to give to anyone willing to listen or read. As to the eyes above with my humble and limited knowledge I would only have three of them as breeders, 2,4 and 6, 8915, 885 and 437 respectively. The rest would be flyers or pumpers.. These comments were not meant to be critical or rude to anyone just my thoughts. Good Day. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 ty ed,much appreciated....paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Without seeing it it,s difficult to say,what i would ask is it a pied or come from pieds as it could be a part bull eye. its mother is a blue pied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagull Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 mr staf van reet man you claim 2 have won all these postions can you tell me wat club and fed you fly in either put up or shut up end of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond dave Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I along with loads of others on this site dont know the first thing about eyesign but I have to say I am open minded. There are too many great fanciers telling us outstanding things on this subject. How about you eyesign men giving us a couple of basic lessons so that we may while a way a few winter days looking at the eyes of our own birds. How about telling us what is constitutes a bad eye bad eye. What is the outer circle /inner circle/correlation/adaption. Please dont just refer us to Jack Barkels posts, - they are too complicated! Can you keep it basic and in laymans terms - I'm sure a lot of people on this site would be interested????????? D.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I along with loads of others on this site dont know the first thing about eyesign but I have to say I am open minded. There are too many great fanciers telling us outstanding things on this subject. How about you eyesign men giving us a couple of basic lessons so that we may while a way a few winter days looking at the eyes of our own birds. How about telling us what is constitutes a bad eye bad eye. What is the outer circle /inner circle/correlation/adaption. Please dont just refer us to Jack Barkels posts, - they are too complicated! Can you keep it basic and in laymans terms - I'm sure a lot of people on this site would be interested????????? D.D. me being 1 of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 You say he never bothered with the eyes but i can definatly tell you that the best breeders had fantastic eyes and so do the best breeders in any strain. Just repeating Pete what the man... and his son and partner said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swilcox Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 I had one of the best teams of Van Reets in the UK at one time and none of them had eyes like this!!!!!!!!! Not Van Reets me is thinking!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 John Robo and Diamond Dave, I by no means am an eyesign expert. There are several things an eye will tell me such as sex, health and most importantly breeding capabilities. I use eyesign specificily for breeding purposes. Eyesign is only one of the tools available to all of us. I don't use eyesign to tell me how far certain birds will fly or how far they won't, their Sire's and Dam's have already taught me that on the race course. For many years I have studied and learned what I could on eyesign, I have talked with Jack and have his eyesign tape, I have read Bishops book and many, many others. I do not totally agree with everything I have read and as far as the eye rings go I my thoughts are totally different than most. But back to subject if there is something you would like to know I would be happy to answer if I can, you are free to agree or disagree or do neither. One thing I might add is there is an eyesign thread already started by others that are undoubtedly much more knowledgable than I. Good day. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 thanks birdman. the thing with me i dont know what am looking for. when the eye refers to mountains. thats me done, i carnt see mountains just an eye ball. there plenty of info about the parts of the eye ie the pupil the black thing in the middle of the eye. where do i start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj1001 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 I am no means an eyesign expert and anyone who is knowledgeable on this subject please correct me if I am wrong on annything. I have drawn out a rough diagram on the circles of a pigeon's eye to try and help those that aren't aware of them. I have drawn this diagram on my interpretation of some of Jack Barkel's fantastic eyesign books and articles, so if I have misinterpreted anything Jack I apologise. I have only done this to try and help anyone who might be interested on the topic on the site. Like I have stated earlier though I am an eyesign novice, compared to some of the more knowledgeable members of the forum. PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE FIFER Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 watch most pigeon fanciers when they pick up a bird what's the first thing they look at, well most of them, even non eyesign men. the eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond dave Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Birdman, Thanks for your reply. Yes there is a thread already started but it is eyesign men talking to eyesign men and for a beginner it is all so confusing any BASIC info you can let us have will be greatly appreciated. Ed, Thanks mate, thats great to get me started but I cant read it!!!!!!!!! some of the clarity must have been lost in the posting. Fifer. What are they looking at when there looking at the eye after all dont you need an eyeglass to read the birds eye ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj1001 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 If you click on the image it should enlarge hopefully. PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 where are the mountains. what do they look like. thanks pj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj1001 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Like I said John I am not a eyesign expert and just added this diagram help novices like myself in identifying the 5 different circles in the eye no more. To get an answer to your question you will need to ask someone more knowledgeable in eysesign than me. PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 thanks anyway m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 John Robo and Daimond Dave along with any others that want to read this... When they talk about the mountains in the eye, they are talking about the iris. It is usually much darker and looks thicker than the part that lies beneith. When they say mountains they want to see either white or yellow behind or underneith the darker Iris, when they talk of valleys it is the lighter color of the iris where the darker colors would be the ridges. Hopefully I am saying what I think I am and even more hopefully you are understanding what I want you to... LOL. Let me know If I need to be more specific. Thanks. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john robo Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 i sort of get it i will have a good look in the morning. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 i sort of get it i will have a good look in the morning. thanks No problem John and if I can help in any other way just hollar out.. Later and sleep well. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond dave Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Hi Ed The picture that PJ posted is very helpful (thanks PJ) to a beginner like myself to identify the parts of the eye that you look at but it doesnt really tell me what to look for. By all accounts, it would seem that most peoples interpretation of the eye is different, but there must be some distinction in what sets the basic principles of eyesign and I would welcome the comments of anyone else looking in to aid my genuine interest. Based on PJs picture I have loads of questions:- 1. Circle No.5 Breeding Circle i) How wide should this be to be a good breeder ii). If its not the same colour as circle No2 does this mean its no good to breed from? iii). What else could I look for to tell me a good breeder from a bad one. 2. Circle No3. Circle of correlation. i) why are there 2 circles? ii). What knowledge of the bird can be obtained from this part of the eye. iii) what is the meaning of correlation? 3. Circle No1. Circle of Recognition. i) Is the recognition element to do with the birds memory? ii) Many of my birds pupils are not exactly round, is this a bad sign? 4. General questions. i) how do I tell a good racer from a good breeder? ii) how do I tell a sprinter from a long distance bird? I would thank anyone to take the trouble to answer my questions but should advise that I only want to know what to look for without an eyeglass for my own interest. D.D. Incidently sorry to steal the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Hi Ed The picture that PJ posted is very helpful (thanks PJ) to a beginner like myself to identify the parts of the eye that you look at but it doesnt really tell me what to look for. By all accounts, it would seem that most peoples interpretation of the eye is different, but there must be some distinction in what sets the basic principles of eyesign and I would welcome the comments of anyone else looking in to aid my genuine interest. Based on PJs picture I have loads of questions:- 1. Circle No.5 Breeding Circle i) How wide should this be to be a good breeder ii). If its not the same colour as circle No2 does this mean its no good to breed from? iii). What else could I look for to tell me a good breeder from a bad one. 2. Circle No3. Circle of correlation. i) why are there 2 circles? ii). What knowledge of the bird can be obtained from this part of the eye. iii) what is the meaning of correlation? 3. Circle No1. Circle of Recognition. i) Is the recognition element to do with the birds memory? ii) Many of my birds pupils are not exactly round, is this a bad sign? 4. General questions. i) how do I tell a good racer from a good breeder? ii) how do I tell a sprinter from a long distance bird? I would thank anyone to take the trouble to answer my questions but should advise that I only want to know what to look for without an eyeglass for my own interest. D.D. Incidently sorry to steal the thread. very good post im intriguied by eyes also and although i know nowt about them i am very interested in learning about them!also pj that photo you posted was very good mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 OK John, Dave, Wiley and whomever else here goes. I will say again I don't mess much with the circles and only use the eye for picking my breeders but I will try to address as best as I can. The only rings that concern me with the pigeons eye (for breeding) is the 5th or outside ring and the 3rd circle or ring of correlation. For me these two have to be equal in size. Many others believe all the circles must be somewhat equal, the more equal the better, the coloring on the two circles must also be the basic same color. Many birds I have saw do not have the 5th circle and would never be allowed to breed in my lofts. The iris must be very bright and the pupil should dialate when put in bright light, smaller the pupil the better, a pupil that will not dialate means you have serious unrepairable problems with the bird. I believe a good racer shows horizontal lines threw the ring recognition and vertical lines for a distance bird, I have not proven that theory out as I don't use eyesign for that. Dave I believe I addressed your questions if I did not do so then please re-ask what I need to be more clearly on. Also please remember this is just MY interpretation and I am not in anyway trying to say or act like I am an expert on eyesign. This is just the way I use it for myself. I don't make $$$ with it now or ever will as most of my thoughts are much different than those that do and it will not be long before a challenge of some sort is put up here telling me I know not what I talk about. But trust me this is the way I use eyesign. Hope it helps. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I am including a link here that totally explains what most here are looking to understand. Jack has put it up a few years back and I have looked at it many times, and although I don't agree with all of it I do believe it is an outstanding site and everyone with any need or want to learn about eyesign should click on the link and check it out. I could have just answered the questions with Jacks words and everyone would have thought I was a genius which is the way I feel about Jack. Anyway hope this isn't breaking any rules but here is the link. Happy viewing. Ed http://www.albertaclassic.net/eyes/barkel.php# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I guess I should add when you get to the site just run your mouse or curser over the ring you want to identify and on the pix of the eye it will highlight it and below the picture it explains it. There are also much more to read in the site. good luck. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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