pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Silverwings The hawks in my part of the country are not fast enough to catch pigeons because they are Down from parents with bad eyesign. It makes you wonder what eyesign men are pairing up the hawks to make them fast enough to do their job. Lets face it if there where no eyesign men pairing them up their young would never be fast enough to catch anything. Then again maybe nature plays a part as only the fastest can survive and go on to breed young that are fast. Maybe that's why they have been around for so long what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Pigeonscout always willing to learn, fantastic flying. But are you saying that you only breed out of proven racers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverwings Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 thats more like it scout ? take your point about breeding from proven pigeons ,and yes i do agree that the basket is the ultimate selector , but the beauty of this sport is that it allows the individual fancier to build and shape qualities into his or her own birds , as they choose, some may be beneficial some may not work out ,and websites like this gives us all the oportunity to share these ideas and views ......ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Saffer where's you gone, lets have your performances too please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Chris, I'd be interested in the history of your base birds, have you had the same family or are you someone who has moved across to the M& D Evans Vandenabeeles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Albear No, you can breed a pair of champion racers and never breed a winning bird. I am like most people I try different pairs in the hope to find a pair that will breed me winners. But I believe that you will find them pairs more often by pairing from winning blood. If you have 12 birds that have all won races and pair them in section 1. Then take 12 birds that have never been in the result and pair them in section 2. I think you will find that most of the winning birds you breed are coming from section 1. Some of you will say that your best breeding pair have never raced but can you say that they have not come from a winning blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 I’m back in work, twiddling my thumbs thinking what can I do next, its dead quiet not worth while the Office opening really but Hey Ho. It’s one of those moments when you start to reflect and think about all these posts and what you’ve learnt from them…………….and I’ve concluded I’ve learnt nowt except that people aren’t very straight and that I’ve stirred up people I don’t know, who are I reckon quite powerful/elite in this sport and I’m not sure why I’ve stirred them up. Time to reflect, I’ve come on here and evaluated some eyes, been spot on, then Stuart comes on and I do the same. Then Mr Staff Van Reet turns up and he’s shown to be a fraud. Then a new user appears Pigeon Scout and he takes me to task, his sidekick appears Saffer for support. Saffer’s a weird one, according to the member centre he didn’t join until the 26th December, but he’s posting four or five days before How can that happen Saffer??? I explain I don’t believe in Eye sign but they can’t grasp this. They tell me if I can pick the best I should be the best fancier in the world. They possibly don’t know me, then again one of them may do from certain things written. I reckon Stuart, Pigeonscout, Saffer and Chris all belong to the same elite circle. The bottom line is I don’t believe in eye sign, I’m not telling people to follow eye sign, I’m not misleading or telling anyone to follow my ways. I have had many private e mails since and I have told all those that have asked for advice, throw your eye sign books away and forget everything that’s ever been written, look at your own birds eyes and then look at their performance and then start to compare and see if you can see the correlation, the same with breeding. Why do I give that advice well cause traditional eye sign cocked me up for so many years, I’ve ruined so many good birds I couldn’t begin to list them………but did I know at the time? Did I chuff! Every time I’d change and I’d think yeah got it right and then performance - absolute crap! And when I’d visit lofts, I’d get some right and some wrong, so I new I wasn’t there. I can say it is only during the past 12 months that I have really understood the secret of the eye. I know the Scout and his gang will be reading this and steam will be coming out of their ears………..or will it? Why would they want to pick up on what I say……… I’m a nobody………… and I’m not trying to indoctrinate anyone, there are many posts on here with people spouting about different things. I for example have never posted on the eye sign thread. These guys I reckon are a tight knit circle who try and control what’s said and if you do anything that may slacken their control or damage their interests then they go for you as a team. So who are they and what’s their status, I reckon the main guys are Vandenebeele guys with M & D Evans birds. And possibly Pigeon scout is Mark Evans, though I hope not because he would go down in my estimation for the condescending manner in which he referred to Jack Barkel. It will be obvious from the posts that Jack and I disagree on some things but I would never slag anyone off because we disagree and I hold everyone in the Barkel family in high esteem. Why Mark? well ‘cause I remember his article where he reckoned he was so good at breeding because of the way he studies the ancestry and genes. It’s a funny old world, about 2/3 years back I claimed that M & D Evans had actually improved the Vandenabeeles by their breeding skills; I wrote that on PIPA, that caused quite a stir!!! Lets get back to genes etc, ‘cause I agree with Pigeon Scout 100% it is about reproducing the genes, however what I can do that he can’t is look in to the pigeons eye and see its constitution and capability, an athema to Pigeon Scout; so what’s the best way to attack me, ask me where’s my performance if I can do what I say I can,…….. I’m rubbish no performances, well perhaps some, starting to come. I’ve tried to be totally honest, you may think I’m a crank or a crackpot but hopefully from all my posts you will have seen I have written with belief, commitment, and passion, I believe every word I have written, ok so now you think I’m deluded too! Pigeon Scout, Saffer, Mr Staf Van Reet and all the other elitists in your circle you have tried to discredit me as best you can. But there’s one fundamental you can not change, and that is I was 99% correct on the eyes I evaluated and you or no one else will have come across any one who has done that before. When Stuart tried to play silly buggars by asking me about the ‘sprinter’ I was right again. That I think is the only reason why you elitists are still pursuing this pleb, cause you can’t fathom it. The guy who put the eyes on I didn’t have a clue who he was, had never seen the birds or eyes, Stuart one of your elitist group put another eye on I didn’t have a clue about. Pigeon Scout I hope over the next ten years to achieve the same success as you but more importantly, and take note Chris, start breeding from pairs that breed 3 out of 4 good ones. What I ain’t got that you elitists have is money, I have no short cut ability to go to the head of the well and buy the best. If I had that then, Scout I would be right up with the very best………..cause whether you think it a stupid comment or not I could if I had the opportunity and money go to any loft/auction/sale in the world and pick the best breeders. Nothing you say to decry me will change that. Scout you are a bit brighter than the other cronies like Mr Staf Van Reet and poor old saffer, and you have some sense cause you have not dismissed me out of hand, you know there may be a chance that I’m right and if you know of and have seen Carney at work then you know it is possible. Perhaps one day our paths will cross and when that happens you will, if I get the opportunity to pick your best, come back on and admit that I could do it…………and you’ll still remain a sceptic!!! Finally I don’t like deceit and which ever one of you decided to try the Mr Staf Van Reet ploy, displayed your arrogance, you thought I was one of your plebs that you like to talk down to. One thing you failed to appreciate is that some of us plebs actually do have an IQ higher than average. Lets complete this thread by coming completely up front. My name is Alan Baker I live in Devon, I am not a successful flyer, though had a very promising 2006 with the birds, the first time I’ve raced a) in two years and since properly cracking the secret of the eye. So time will tell, and Scout if I do half as well as you have, I’ll be highly pleased but I aim to do as well as. If you want to impart any racing tips, methods etc I would take them in like a sponge, cause I have lots to learn………and I’m sure I have lots more to learn about the eye. I am always willing to listen and learn, and would welcome a mentor of your capability to move me on that much quicker, I know my short comings but the eye is not one. Now lets have your identities and if you have the decency, explain who and why the Mr Staf Van Reet ploy was dreamed up and the reason why you have pursued this unknown pleb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Saffer I don't think you need to show results after all why would you need to? I have never heard you claim to have the gift of picking birds that will breed winners by using eyesign. I had to show that I have produced winners without using eyesign. I have yet to get the results from the men who say they can pick breeders of winners by using eyesign. I would expect their results to be far greater than mine as they only have to look into a birds eye to see if it can breed winners. Me on the other hand can spend years trying to find a pair of birds that will breed winners and when I do get lucky the search for another pair starts. You see breeding is gold racing is silver but without silver we cannot tell if we have struck gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Albear You say you do not believe in eyesign then go on to say you can look in to the pigeons eye and see its constitution and capability. I have never called you rubbish because you have no performances I am not that narrow minded. As anyone knows, no matter how good your results may have been you are only as good as the next one. I ask for your performances to show me what you claimed was true and that was you could go into anyone's loft and pick their best breeding and winning birds surely a man with that gift would himself have winning birds. You say you ain’t got what you elitists have is money, I have no short cut ability to go to the head of the well and buy the best. Well, the most I have ever paid for a bird was £80 and that was 6 years ago and guess what? it was rubbish. I was gifted 6 Hartog birds form a top fancier and from that I have build a family. You reckon the main guys are Vandenebeele guys with M & D Evan's birds. And possibly Pigeon scout is Mark Evan's, Well im not Mark Evan's and have never met him. As far as the Vandenebeele pigeons are concerned I have not one drop of Vandenebeele blood in my loft. There may be a team of guys ganging up on you im not one of them I have only been on this site one week and do not know anyone on it in person. You call me an elitists please belive me when I tell you I am not. There is an old saying if you want to be successful find someone who is and copy them. That is all I do, I learn form the men at the top. If you learn all the things two top men know you will know more than any one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Ok pigeon scout thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Albear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 birdman55678 The fun is not winning the fun is trying to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 As I said before you are only as good as your next race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Albear. Could it be possible that Stuart, Pigeonscout, Saffer and Chris are all the same person or maybe even all club members and are only on here to disrupt the list. I for one could claim to have won twice as much as pigeon scout but that would mean nothing unless I would post my name and where I flew so the results could be verified. All claim without backup are false to me and will continue to mean nothing without verification. I do believe pigeon scout has much to contribute but for some reason or other will not part with any actual knowledge. I just flat out get tired of reading all the same old stuff over and over again. Lets get to some factual pigeon related subject not the I can do this cause I have won everything that has ever been. Everyone knows eyesign can't be validated and those that do not want to listen will always remain a closed door. Its best to ignore the nay sayers and continue on with those that do want to know more. There is a member in out club from Belgium that is a very outstanding flyer and has results that I envy. He also does not believe in eyesign and will not even discuss the subject, I was at his lofts this fall and was remarking on his choice of breeders. I noticed that all his breeders had either white eyed cocks on yellow hens or vice versa. When I asked him he told me that everyone that knows anything never pairs birds with the same eye unless it was yellow to yellow and then only if absolutely necessay. This told me that he does use eyesign but only for what he deems necessay. When I told him this he exclaimed it had nothing to do with eyesign. Go figure. Best regards to all. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 The man who thinks he has the next race won is in for the biggest shock of all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 birdman55678 The fun is not winning the fun is trying to win. Thats why it doesn't matter as long as your doing the winning, go a couple years without the wins though and then it will suddenly be very important to you.. Ed ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 The man who thinks he has the next race won is in for the biggest shock of all I believe I will win every race I enter. Of course I don't but I always think I will. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 birdman55678 I know no one that has posted on here. Now I would not say I had won something if I had not. There cannot be that many fanciers racing only Hartog that took the firsts 7 out of 10,000 + birds. So if you do a bit of homework you should be able to find out who I am. You say never pairs birds with the same colour eyes all I have is white eyes so I have no choice. You also say I will not part with any actual knowledge what is it you want to know if I can help you I will but this is about eyesign those who believe and those that do not can put their points across. Im not here to put anyone down Im here to give my views on eyesign. Some people believe it works and that it will help fanciers pick breeders of winners. I believe if they use eyesign to pick breeders it will hold them back. It is up each person to read the points made and take his own path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Pigeonscout. For whats its worth I think this last post of yours is one of the better ones, you don't seem to be talking down to anyone or glorifing you results. Good for you and this is the kind of post that benefit everyone. Actually I didn't say not to pair birds with the same color eye, it was the flyer from belgium that told me that. If you only breed from white eyes then of course you will only have white eyes, it has always been my belief that white eyed birds when paired together will usually breed fast pigeons without much stamina, but beliefs are like *expletive removed* holes everyone has their own.. I am actually not from where ever it is that you are and know absolutely nothing of the area or of the flyers, when you say Hartog it means nothing to me so would have no idea where to look for your results. Please note I did not say you didn't have the results, I said if unverifyable they mean nothing to me. I do not know why you will not post your name, maybe things are much different there and you are fearful someone will retaliate or something. I look forward to more of the same type posts in the future and have always and still believe that each and everyone of us are entitled to believe as they will, but even more important in this day and age we all need to unite and become of one of many who race for the sheer joy of racing. The activists are on the move everywhere, lets all close our fronts and show nothing but unity. My thoughts and maybe only mine. Good day. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 birdman55678 You say that all claim without backup are false to me and will continue to mean nothing without verification. I agree with this statement and that is why I ask to see the results that eyesign worked. You see birdman we both have something in common we like to see the proof. So before you start to believe in eyesign why not do what im am doing and ask to see the proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Clearing the air. In regards to the two PM I recieved I will say this, I have never claimed to be better than anyone in any way, if what I posted was taken as that than I apologize for that is not the way I meant it to be. I have made many, many mistakes over the years and hopefully I have learned from them, I have made many, many posts on this site and hopefully I have helped some or posted something that stirred interest to others. I will continue to do so until the moderators discontinue my ability to do so. I only post the things I do or have done in the past and would never try to lead anyone down the wrong path. I really do apologize if I have been taken in the wrong way. Good Day to all. Ed Dillon - Pegasus Lofts Puget Sound Concoure, I-5 Combine South West Washington Racers. Centralia, Washington 98532 USA 1-360-291-3908 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Pigeon scout. Of course the proof is nice to see. I believe its there if you do as you asked me to do. Jack Barkel has indeed offered proof. This seems to have been overlooked. Not only has Jack had success but his success has extended over onto the masses. I do not believe you would accept any proof you would always find something wrong with it. You sir are a non believer and will unfortunately remain so as your mind is closed to the subject. To me you miss much by disregarding the eye, but I do not hold this against you as you seem to have done well with the way you are going. For me eyesign is not the total way to do anything, but it is one tool for use in evaluating and only one, hopefully this post will be taken in not an adverse way. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 ok here is one for you eyesign men this is the eye of the best breeding pigeon that ever lived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonscout Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Can some of you eyesign men tell me what is in its eye that no other bird has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffer Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Birdman Put me in the same pot as Chris and Pigeonscout anyday. I know Chris has results from out of this world, and pigeonscout is no slouch. Could it be we all seem the same, as we evaluate and think about, odds, chances. And most important the hundreds of factors involved besides eyes. Pair 1 Bred 8 young, 6 Winners in 2003. Eyes must be right 8) Then for 2 years 12 youngsters later, and 1 winner, bad strike rate. Yet eyes, health, loft, food the same. Its pigeon racing, thats all. Then you visit a topper, he breeds 100 Young to get ten great yearlings. But yet another chap no longer racing or cannot fly a kite let alone pigeons, but he talks of high returns. good pigeons bred from eye pairs. Simple good old common sence tells you somethings fishy. Simple. Regards Saffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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