EYES WHAT U THINK!!!

[Ronnie]

Could it be that all you guy's who dont believe in eyesign and are succesfull at pairing are pairing good eyesign birds together by accident?It could be you have a loft full of good eyesign birds .

My personal belief is eyesign is a good pointer and is a tool to be used along with others.But i'm a beginner and time will tell.

[Guest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6375381.stm

 

Thought the above might be of interest. Started in a new Office in December, looked in two ladies eyes ;D, told one she was taking too much paracetamol and the other needed to lay off the Pot, the Pot lady went bright red!!! (Both confirmed and agreed; one other has Lesbian tendancies.....but I haven't dared mention! still looking for a nymph but haven't seen one yet (in this office!!)

[Roland]

Well Ronnie do you mean that having a good and sucessful loft means that you automatically get / have / or it becomes a loft full of god eyesigns?

There is obviously much that a eye can't tell you, and of course much that it will ... but as the 'Eye to the Soul' this often flounders too, bird may have an alet bright eye etc. but bill ailing somewhere, or will be very quickly.

The 'Big Un' Bob says that the Millenium Star and the 'Village Lad' had very similiar eys sign. Which is interesting as Most have different eyes tat are champions .... But eye Eye sign theory has any foundation, surely there must be common denominators on board. JMO

[Pompey Mick]

Anyone noticed this article in the Daily Mirror today 23rd Feb about Human Eyesign

 

THE EYES DO HAVE IT

THEY'RE THE WINDOWS TO YOUR SOUL..

By Sara Wallis 23/02/2007

More Top Stories

THAT'S right. For centuries people have believed that looking into someone's eyes lets us search their soul... and now scientists have proved it to be true.

 

According to new research, patterns on your iris reveal the personality lurking beneath.

 

Lines and minuscule blotches can point towards a warm heart or an impulsive streak. A dense iris could mean you are more affectionate than others, but more lines can point towards intensity and control. Researchers at the University of Orebro, in Sweden, compared the eyes and personality traits of 428 people to see if there was any link. And the results were astonishing.

 

The scientists argued that eye structure and character could be linked because the genes responsible for the development of the iris also play a role in shaping part of the frontal lobe of the brain - which affects personality.

 

"The tissue in the front of the brain is reflected in the iris, so the two could be linked," says Mats Larsson, who led the research. "We analysed four different groups of people who had different types or irises and found that they differed in their personality in a systematic way.

 

"For example, people with a dense iris structure were receptive to their inner feelings as well as being sympathetic and feeling concern for others - more than people with an open-iris structure.

 

"It was surprising at how strong the links were."

 

Take a look in the mirror and see how your eyes compare.

 

Discipline comes first

 

CLUSTER 1: THE structure of the iris is full of densely-packed threadlike fibres that go from the pupil to the outer edge of the iris and there are very few ring-shaped lines close to the iris rim.

 

This means a person has a lot of warmth and positive emotions. They are agreeable and trusting, tender and have strong values.

 

This person will strive for achievement and have lots of self discipline.

 

IMPULSIVE & INTENSE

 

CLUSTER 2: A DENSE iris structure with lots of rings around the outer edge of the iris. These rings are a result of when the iris contracts to the light.

 

These people are impulsive and in touch with their feelings and those of others. They feel intensely - when they're happy they're really happy, and vice versa.

 

They are in tune with what is appropriate socially and remain in control.

 

TEND TO BE RESERVED

 

CLUSTER 3: THE iris has an open structure, with lots of little gaps and openings within it - and there are lots of lines creating a circle going round the pupil.

 

These people can be warm and agreeable, but less so than people in cluster one. Selfdiscipline is more of a challenge, and they're much more reserved. Cluster three people are harder to read - to look at them it's not obvious how they are feeling.

 

Ambitious but closed

 

CLUSTER 4: An open iris structure with lots of gaps like cluster three, but here there are very few lines or wrinkles around the eyes.

 

These people strive for achievement more than those in cluster one and have better self discipline.

 

But they are not as spontaneous or open to new experiences as other people. They have a less positive outlook and take more time to decide on whether they want to do something.

 

 

 

    

[timbarra]

would anybody like to tell me what they think eyesign is used for.? be careful i know what i am talking about, and i think eyesign exists but not in the capacity you may think.

[Guest]

In my opinion, although I must admit that I am not an expert, eyesign can be used as an aid to monitor health, and also as an aid to select good breeders/racers in your loft. Whether you believe in it or not, it also creates yet another point of enjoyable interest in our wonderful hobby! For the record I'm a believer, but it isn't my priority in my birds selection. As I already said I'm no expert and but it certainly is an aid to me!

[timbarra]

hi davey B, well its good to have an non biased opinion of sorts on the subject mate. well you do not use it as a major selecting tool thats good and yes it can determine the general health of a bird.

I can be totally honest and say experts do not exist in eyesign no matter who they are, eyesign can be used for 1) determining the health of a bird. 2) confirmation of pedigree and breeding .

because eys like any other part of the living tissue of any being is genetically inherited !!!!  my e-mail is spencer@timbarra.co.uk and my web address is timbarra.co.uk take a look and mail me. i have written in the BHW and hope most fanciers caught my articles.  talk again soon. cheers for the reply

[Ronnie]

I can be totally honest and say experts do not exist in eyesign no matter who they are, eyesign can be used for 1) determining the health of a bird. 2) confirmation of pedigree and breeding .

 

 

How can you make such a statement without actually proving these so called experts wrong?

Is there any solid proof for or against eyesign? Until there is either i cant see how you can make such an assumption.

[timbarra]

ronnie hello , it is not an asumption but 16 years of study, eyesign exists but how many experts have said pigeons will do this or that and have not ? the number is legion!!  I have an understanding of genetics in racing pigeons and it is a fact... a fact that pigeons are made from 2 parents from whom they inherit their genes!! think about it and if all these guys can pick the best in fanciers lofts and claim they will win , well it stands to reason , the best bloodlines in a fanciers loft are going to be hes most successful and there more of that bloodline than any other , so its easy to pick out a good bird, eyesign is sex genetically linked and hereditary , i have proved it , but you are your own person and should believe what you think is right.. the bible states mary was a virgin ( nice trick if you can pull that one off) was she? deal with facts not hearsay or theory . theory is exactly that a mans idea to claim something of half truth.

[Ronnie]

I dont think any eyesign person would say a bird will win at such a distance .They would say it can win.Again its down to more than just the eyesign you still need to get the pigeon on the right condition for the race.Look at every distance winner you can and see if there is eyesign present if it is does that prove eyesign exist?.I'm neither for or against eyesign at the moment but on the fence as they say leaning towards it rather than away.I also believe there are people who have been studying the eye a lot longer than sixteen years who will  swear it exist.Yes bloodlines tell a lot but if that bloodline started with two good eyesign birds what does that prove?Dont take this the wrong way i really interested in both sides of the argument like i said i'm neither for or against and only time and study of my own birds will tell.

[Taylorsloft]

ive have won more since i started pairing up with eyesign 5 years ago

[Guest]

Well I'll reiterate for the sake of Timberra, I don't believe in eye sign, I do believe in genetics and I've been reading his articles and I think he ain't got a clue!

Through the genetic structure of the eye it is possible to pick for distance and velocity. It is not possible to say a bird will win x amount of 1st becaus e of nurture, but if environment and upbringing is right then itis posible to spot the birds that will win multiple 1st, but hey ain't it good to know the ones that will win one or two firsts and where from?? and if you do believe in genetics you should be able to understand that geneticaly it is possible to differentiate between the lunch box and the skeleton?? Oh and I've been studying for 29 years but that means nowt!! Except for the two women working in my office who asked me totell hem something about them , the one I told took too much paracetamol, the other to much pot, she waent crimson and agreed, and the other a third a broken left leg but unusually between the knee and groin, they don't let me look no more.....but then again I try not too since nearly 20 years ago i saw a guy who I thought would die..and he did 6 months later.

[Roland]

Eye is just a theory, at best too many a poor one at that.

The biggest downer, as far as I believe, is that all the so - called experts disagree. If there was the slightest inkling that there was a fathom of relevance in eyesign theory, then surely by now, after a 100 odd years there would be a fundemental base board, one when certain parts told a story, and was agreed to by most that pofessed some knowledge of the theory. JMO

I am a not a believer, but would decry, or down the theory, especially out of hand, but I wouldn't be swayed in any way shape or form as to it's merit for any purpose ... But gypsies can cure things doctors can't ...

[Guest]

Roland agree with you 100%.......what I will say to you is that the base principle which Carney discovered (and no one else has as far as I'm aware though Jack barkel tells me there are a few others who claim what i do) I have never seen written or talked about and I can asure you in the past quarter of a century I have read everything I can on the eye..............and by God i've ruined, chucked away, given away and sold some fantastic pigeons because at the time I was following a particular route.

I would say forget eye sign but if you are keen study your birds eyes and learn from them and if you get the opportunity go to top lofts and study the breeders and winners. But whatever you do ignore everything you have read or watched because it will take you down the wrong alley, as Dennis belding told me a look time ago, look beyond what you first see. As pigeon fanciers and humans we have become brainwashed by image and appearance rather than substance

[timbarra]

Albear , I am sure you have taken my articles and much of what I am saying the wrong way. first of all I agree you cannot tell a good pigeon totally on the eye.. ok , i do however think you strut for arguments, why? things are suppose to be disscussed and i feel you make a judgement cut and dried. fine thats your perogative i totally understand that.

eyesign exists or not exists well who really cares . the eye exists and without it you or your pigeons would not be able to see!! maybe it should be called genetic eye study instead of eyesign.

i never select my pigeons on eyesign rather type and bloodline with performance, and i have bred  winners at classic, national, and still i only use eyesign to confirm parentage. i believe this so called sport is so primative because of the people involved, scared to listen or consider any other view other than their own, well these people will do what they wish and it will not affect myself so good luck to them.

i also mentioned i study eyes for 16 years ....again not as a measure that i know more than anybody else due to i maybe been doing it longer , but just to show i not been doing it 5 minutes!!!

look at it this way; if somebody has been studying eyesign for 30 years what makes him more knowledgeable than me ? well is it he not learnt in 30 years what i learnt in 16.... who not the clever one !!  

[timbarra]

hi ronnie, well your statement that you will let time and study of your own birds is a very valid and sensible one, just keep an open mind my friend and just see what i wrote in the british homing world is fact or theory.. the hardest thing for a pigeon fancier to admit he is wrong , they seem to be a dead breed at times , but some are forward thinking maybe like yourself.

 

 

taylorloft glad your winning and i bet that most of your birds are related from the same bloodlines, therefore your best pigeons will be of similar bloodline!! check and you will see i am basically correct . and why do they have great eyesign you ask , well because they are the same bloodline and the eyes are similar it goes without saying eyesign is genetically inherited . read pigeon genetics. alfons anker as much material as you can find.

 

look i not gonna go on about it make up your judgements

 

 

 

cheers all ,  :-/

[Guest]

it sells books and videos dont it make the so called experts qite wealthy   ;) ;)

as far as i am concerned it wont beat the basket theory  ;D ;D ;D

[Ronnie]

from my personal view i think there are to many theories and hocus pocus in the sport.I'm a new starter and instead of advancing in the last 18 months i think i have gone backwards.The amount of pigeon men i have spoke to and listened to in the last 2 years is uncountable and everyone has a little bit of this and that to tell you .Usually it contradicts what the last guy told you.I think i can count on one hand the amount of genuine fanciers who are actually willing to guide a new starter in the right direction and 2 of them where from this site .I dont think people actually start of to send me down blind alleys on purpose i think they dont realise how little i actually know of the sport.A case of to much information in to short a time .After trying for months to get to grips with the feeding regime i have now put my birds on hopper feed 24hr's a day.Ive got the deep litter sorted just done the food now i need to master the training.LOl i think, next i will turn to motivation and eyesign and wing theory throat theory feet theory and anything else i happen to read here or there.

[timbarra]

hi ronnie,

well i have methods and if any can help you mate then great if not not to worry,

i have top pigeons and breed from them only, i feed versalaga energy mix which is a light diet mix, they have plain water with calcium supplement added one a week, i scrape my loft daily or every 2 days depending, as for training i train upto 25 miles 6-7 times at start of season and 1 a week during, thats it. good pigeons and simple easy methods will win races. just to add i feed the diet mix all year round no changing. or i give crushed peanuts and budgie seeds mixed together during breeding.

 

maybe this will help you maybe not, you decide just enjoy what you do ronnie, look at pigeons which is the best teaching advice i can give, all are different sizes, shapes, wings and eyes but all good pigeons have one thing in common, they are well bred from good pigeons.

 

take it easy ronnie

 

[jimmy white]

apart from eyesign,, [which i am sceptical about] i beleive the eye is the gateway to the birds health, which i would consider , more important,,, the eyesign theorie , which ,really all it is , has, in my 60 years of keeping pigeons, never been proved beyond all doubt, im not against it by any means , there are many theories with pigeons ,,long flights , short flights broad  flights , narrow flights etc etc, we have also, which us humans would term as a" good handler", be it long casted short casted, be it large or be it small , be it apple bodied or deep keeled , we all have our  likes and dislikes ,,,,,but one thing for sure is ,, we all like the winner , no matter what  it looks like   :) ,,,and it usualy looks good,,, ,to the owner, anyway

[timbarra]

hi jimmy, eyesign i know is a true fact , because it is a genetically inherited part of the pigeon ..which is fact!! ansd i will state that eyesign can not be used to measure a birds ability to the full and should not be used to do so. all eyesign can be used for is to determine the health of the bird and confirm that it is bred from the claimed parents. thats it no experts no bullshit no theory. just facts. so i will now rename eyesign as  optical gene-sign.

[Jack Barkel]

Dear Pigeon Fanciers,

 

Now the arguments have died down once again for the merits and demerits of eye-sign, whether one believes in it or disbelieves in it but still looks in the eye, which I believe separates the educated from the unintelligent. I will say my piece for the last time on this forum. Every one has the right to believe or disbelieve, but when you insult or condemn those who make a living from it you a grossly out of order, and looking for retaliation.

 

The make up of the racing pigeon as we know it today was derived first from the Carrier, the Dragoon, the Bagdad strains, these were all long deep keeled homing pigeons, no step in the wing, big boned, with the humerus bone close to the body, and all were yellow eyed and large wattled. These pigeons were great homers but lacked balance, buoyancy, speed and vitality.

 

Introduced to these were the Smerle and Owl with the frill, the Cumulet and many other fancy types of pigeons. These invariably all had pearl eyes and were much more delicate and apple bodied, and gave the needed buoyancy to these long distance homers.

 

All these types are now combined to make up the modern day racing pigeon, and because of the lack of intelligence of the majority of breeders, we get what I call the genetic drift. That is to say the humerous bone far from the body which limits extreme distance, the step in the wing which increases speed but limits increased stamina. The short apple bodied configuration which you get from a short keel bone and short fat breast muscles which will not give you the reserves of glycogen needed to be drawn on by the liver.

 

All these pointers need to be observed as well as the eye, for the genetic imprint or drift to either the yellow types or pearl types can be seen in the eye, and we must counteract it accordingly.

 

Now if anyone has doubts for I have been earning my income for over 16 years just evaluating racing pigeons on these characteristics. Instead of condemning those who believe in it as well as the immaculate conception which you "Timbarra" should never have mentioned on a pigeon list. I ask you to challenge me to a contest, winner takes all.

I am prepared to fly to England and have you put me to the test. It will cost the price of two air fares from South Africa at least, to be paid to the winner. I will have the rules of the game drawn up by my lawyer if you have the courage of your convictions. For you see I have done this in the past.

 

I do not attack eye-sign men for they all have some things in common as do all people, that is why some go to another doctor for a second opinion???

 

I refer to the Timbarras of this world who insult eye sign believers and Christian believers on a list like this. I have stopped contributing because of un-intelligent utterances as those of Timbarra. I do not question his education, but his manners and intelligence and his self proclaimed knowledge of genetics, are certainly not without question.

 

Especially to you Timbarra, if you have read the book "Karel Meulemans" you will see he mentions only one eye sign person in the whole book, and that is myself. Not only that, I have developed a strain of my own which is the only strain to be recognised to have its own unique genetic reference in the last 100 years, and they win races.

 

There are many educated people on this list who battle to write intelligently, and you Timbarra are one of them Sir.

I am not a fake!! and it were better you do not imply by your writings that I or any other eye expert is.

 

I am prepared to fly to England and prove it to a packed audience, if you are prepared to put your money where your mouth is.

 

I am not fighting with you, I am defending what I stand for, and showing my digust at your insulting implications to the Virgin Mary in your first letter to  this list. It will be my pleasure to dismantle ignorant people like you with my knowledge and practical skills in your own back yard. Please do not insult any religion on this list, your references should be kept to pigeons alone. If you were intelligent, I would not need to mention this.

 

jackbarkel@mweb.co.za

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

[timbarra]

Mr Barkel, I feel I have offended you sir and for that I am sorry, as for insulting anybodys religion or religous beliefs that is not my intention , my only intention is to try and stick to facts and nomatter what I say sir about anything I am sure nobodys beliefs will waver because of it.

A fact of life is that "a woman can not have a child without fertilization" this is a fact. do you deny this?

and I will expect an answer as you expect answers from me do you not?

I believe in god but to believe the bible has not been manipulated over centuries ... and by man himself.

I am interested in your views and disscussing your findings would be interesting, you believe what you will sir, as for insulting my inteligence, well that is probably what I expect people set in their ways to think and please relise you have not offended me in any way whatsoever.

I have read karel meulemans book and yes it seems you are mentioned although mispelt I can see the author is refering to yourself.

but it only mentions you picked out a certain mr seville pigeon as he's best well i have done the same in peoples lofts , but honestly you picked out a pigeon which any fancier who knows a good pigeon when seen could have done the same.

I applaud you defending what you believe and I stand by your side in the fight to make eyesign a recognised fact but I do think it is being used wrongly , although you will argue or intend to prove otherwise is a good thing .

AS for your challenge what would i achieve £50,000 and what would it achieve for me.. not anything . I am not a travel agent sir and do not intend to be.

I am not picking a fight with you on this as you insulted me in a number of text sentences and i intend not to do the same.

I shall not belittle somebody who i think has a case to push eyesign forward and help those who do not understand it, you sir provide an essential stepping stone for eyesign people to move on with their study and findings.

the stepping stone for my findings are eyesign men or experts who believe as you do and stand by their convictions and i thank them.

 

best regards spencer

[timbarra]

Mr barkel must also remind you sir that as you claim karel meulemans mentions you in his book ... fact is he does not mention you . fact is Frank Daelemans has written your name in the text as a Mr saville Perkins mentions you visited he's loft.

 

please stand corrected and put your trumpett back in the box.

[Jack Barkel]

Dear Spencer,

 

You offended me more with your remarks about religion on a pigeon forum.

I really do not care what you think of me or my achievments in the pigeon world. I only ask that in future you chose your words more carefully. There is a vast difference between Education and Intelligence. I would like to think that in most cases one embraces the other. To me it didn't in your first letter, hence the final response from myself. I am also qualified to answer you on your religious/genetic comments, but this is not the place, and I ceased a long time ago to try and convince none believers about any beliefs I share with my friends. Suffice it to say you do not use the meaning of immaculate in this sense, and science has been made to look foolish by many intelligent people like "Hovind" when one challenges evolution.

 

Sorry Spencer, you have had your say and I have had mine, at least the forum now realises there are others on the list that are not out to cast doubts or beliefs in any theory.

 

We should all be on here to learn, and not to condem, it used to be a very friendly and informative list. Remarks like yours has turned many intelligent fanciers away, and this makes me sad, for I have very close connections and love for British fanciers, especially those from the North East.

 

If you want to see Meulemans genetically bred to reproductive standards, then visit my site, every picture tells a story.

 

I hope this is the last time that you or I, or anybody else clashes on this list because of may be lack of thought.  I do not see why we can still not be friends, as we have a lot in common with the Meulemans. Although our scientific background is obviously poles apart.

 

Regards,

 

Jack