Owen, new starts have to use untried, unproven paper pigeons to breed youngsters. The important point is where they go from there. How long do they allow for their own inadequacies before blaming the birds and looking to improve their producers? For myself, I have found that only a few of my original paper pigeons are still here. That is the ones whose youngsters have became proven, albeit at short distances, whilst the others have failed. The common factor is that they became proven under the same mis-management under which the others failed. There are some other paper pigeons here that are being tried and tested via their youngsters and the jury is still out regarding them. Another pleasing factor is that some youngsters have performed under different management, OLR, and some birds are on loan where their youngsters are performing well, so they are becoming proven.