I have tried them Andy, but perhaps I am not your best guide. I have noticed no difference, no matter the products I have tried. I think it comes down to the fancier's personal preference and makes little or no difference to the birds. First, good birds, second, good hygiene producing third, good health. The only products that are required are the ones that maintain good health because without that, the birds will do nothing, no matter how good they are. If you have the birds and the hygiene, then all you need is to maintain the health by protecting against what they pick up in the panniers. Hope I have this correct and await your PM outlining what you did last year.