Roland

I feel instaed of Brding for an Auction, a pair here and there would be better... they wil e able to race next seasons y / b's and sort the wheat from the shaft as to what suits them. Am certain that the calibre would be superb. Beanz Kids eh!! So you know that… or just casting aspersions?

Nice to c u trying to improve your fine birds Darren ... guess when you don't it goes down hill real fast, but there are always plenty willing to sell, and always plenty about if one is patient.

Fine, Mike that is what makes this sport what it, and I agree to differ will you Mike.

And again Educated from birth... another myh. They have a strong sense to get back to their nest box right off, and if put into an adjacent appartment, they scambel back... naturally. and they they go further a field to the garden etc. and then back. Feed is to form a habit and trap only. They normally like to be in the loft by night fall... then they range, that's it, they have, or haven't completed their homing devices and from there on they home. Gary Edmunds never trained, like Hawkes, and often me etc. more than 20 miles. But they are and do race just the same. From any direction. Bill Bririgs another, a lorry driver, any way 20 miles any weather. The Shipley brothers, North roades, any direction 20 miles.... Flew the Rome race well... well trial and test, and with Bussearts.

Great... Mike I still believe that too many get sucked into myths of Pigeons as Human terms, and logics. They are born with a 'Homing Instinc' that means that if hieghten by sending then away from their loft it is sharpen possiblely. They want to get back forany rreason... ok they may become more focus. All senses are heightened when they become fully fit and conditioned... Health full stop. You like the rest of us have sent birds and they take yonks after they have been 20 time in the previous month etc. etc. They don't know North from South any more than fly in the air. Their homing abilty is hiegtened, that is why they mostly react and home faster if trained from the opposite direction the week prior to a race! Why good birds are sent in all directions to hone in their senses. The only reason in reality to trai pgeons is to Condition them.... Get milage under their wings. Breaking points like is another myth, just never happens or helps... except makes the fancier feel he is helping. So what's it matter if one feels the see a lake and turn left... they are getting conditioned, race fit. When a pigeon is so called racing they are locked in on where they are going and only see anything at the last possible moment, like hegdes, trees etc. Certainly aren't looking around at the scenary and thet's fer sure.

If they don't / can't home they certainly won't race! However That is just part and partial of a 'Complete Whole' which endeavours to become a Healthy Fit conditioned bird. Many parts needed to make the 'Whole' and if one loses, or is way behind, then quite frankly his / her birds hadn't achieved the 'Whole' eeded to be sucessful... but getting home is just part of it. No one ever loses fit and conditioned birds, except via Raptures or actsof God... Waves when flying into a head wind for instance, crossing the motorway etc. Other than that the fancier's bird just say 'Stuff You' I'm off' and that then is that. Nothing whatsoever to do with the way it is trained or raced. Biggest myth I've ever heard was that the South Rd. is / was harder than the North... another load of ole cods wallop. There that is why some struggle when they turn their birds ... they just aren't good enough and can't hack it lol!

Your proograghtive Mike... and no disrespect intended.... But the acts are that any one that has tried has be able to do ok... up to their ability. Now if the location and better flyers or locations means they aren't so successful, then don't blame either their performances, or losses on the Directions. Pigeon just do not simple know North from South, they have the ability to 'Home' full stop, and how and how quick is anothe matter for many different scenarios' .../. But none because of the Actual way it has to fly. Wind, better locations, or worse etc. etc.

Jimmy so amicablely put.Yes by all means give the due credit deserve to the winners... It can't have done any more... and doesn't have a say on where why or how... it just gives it dues on the day. Likewise please remember, especially if buying, where the winner was, and look at the wind for day, and other section winners, placed birds. Forget the prejuduices... give credit to ANY bird, and of course ancier, that has achieved. Then look and be honest, forget the creeping around the 'Name4s and see just what is what! There are many great, clever, dedicated flyer ythat have never won zilch! and if one say that is because they weren't, aren't good enough, then MAY i suggest that it is best that one to looks for a class head shrink!

Mike No disrepect, but your last statement; Of course pigeons can be turned - but turn em at a minutes notice & you're asking for trouble. MNFC did precisely that in 2001 & got sh!t loads of trouble. is something you are presuming. Not any where near right, let alone a fact. Two things I believe are certain !. If you tried to turn your birds and fail...- which I doubt - then look to yourselve. 2. Another fact! It was the losses that peed them of! It was the amount of other good flyers that topped the sections and Nationals. That was when the send of wet letters drown in tears appeared. Like Jeremy Wright. A fantastic flyer and genuine flyer... He won and was highly placed. Didn't the Usual Foretunate Cry:' He's mine and every decent flyer turned birds with no ill effect... It was those that were accustom to 'Wind Assistance' that started crying... because other good birds / Fancies beat them and they didn't have their usual own way! So please don't spout trival silly excuses about 'Birds Didn't like turning... THEY DIDN'T even realise they had turned, they just flew home!

Yes I find it ridiculous that fanciers say that pigeons can’t be turned around, or it upset tem and they are liable to be lost. Etc. Like when they lose a 3 or 4 year old from a training toss or short race, experienced birds that have flow say 500 miles or more before’. That has nothing to do with changing routes It’s like saying ‘Where you live? Liverpool eh! Well don’t worry let them out after a couple of week and they will come back... well they have to because they haven’t been that way before and so they won’t know their way home ’!lol. Or ‘I can’t send them Saints… they have never been here before’ ekk. Hold on there lol

Switching pigeons from one route to another is no problem at all... I have birds that win / won from both routs... Thurso ... a fortnight later Begerac etc. with the same bird. I train any direction, like a lot more when sorting lifts out ... and the birds fly better if train one way the week of flying the other. Mine... Like a lot more change route when there is a race I fancy having a go at.

I have to get a few allsorted colours... I find the Nieghbours lovethem, me too for that matter, and that has to be a bonus.

Would scare me schouwman71 ... If I paid a fiver or more I'd fetch it / them... Cost of 4-5 gallon fuel for Amtrax delivery... so I'd drive down and fetch it / them. Good to meet other fanciers at the same time.

Have them all year round as they like perching on them.

What performances? One National was it 1997 - 1999 twice tops! Any Way Matthew when they coherse and bully into NOON liberations under the pretence that it is fairer to hold the birds up a the Coast! All and every Race should give every bird a chance to be home at night ... they night of the liberation that is I believe. No two days are a like... and if flown well on day one and birds in their loft at six...

Yes but on the other hand you still need the Location whatever many you fly ... I'd wager that Mike send 120 birds Lerwicke, Thurso or even Frazerbugh in a WESTER wind won't win against the East Coast boys. So even 2 sent would be no good AGAINST them ... might well in his eastern side of any others.

And great for setting up 'Wedding Releases'... earn a few bob and put pigeons to the fore... ok they are not Doves as such, but then a darn sight easy to get home with them again, and no one really knows!

If not, then do what many do and move lol. IF you can afford to and the family don't mind lol We know the fella that moved into a valley where the birds like to sail up... His is the first drop, others then have to twist and turn up through the vally. If his is the first batch ... he is a winner... I KNOW many who are classes above him as a fancier... But he has to get them conditioned. But this topic s not really to knock the winners, but to give credit to birds that were every bit as good as the winner ... or the winner truly deserved it's merit.

Nice to see these birds getting another mention, because they in all honesty deserve it. That Pothercary bird, Personally couldn't stand the bloke for if ever two a**sholes were born he’s both of them, but that apart what a bird! Beating all but two East Coastal birds, 80 miles inland. That takes some doing with any West in the wind! .... Mike Says ... Basically though, if you're a class act & your birds are right then you should be able to send a small team & figure right at the top if you've got the position Don’t you agree ? If not do what many do and move lol. We know the fella that moved into a valley where the birds like to sail up... His is the first drop, others then have to twist and turn up through the vally. If his is the first batch ... he is a winner... I KNOW many who are classes above him as a fancier... But he has to get them conditioned. But this topic s not really to knock the winners, but to give credit to birds that were every bit as good as the winner ... or the winner truly deserved it's merit.

Was, and still is used of course is Coffee beans etc. etc. But I can't or wouldn't slant hat... it is somewhat natural. But that is only any good if taken in the morning of Liberation... hence not much use to the majority of the British flyers. I too have have the Jabs for Both Tennis and Golf elbows... not much good really as soon went back Acupuncher next a bit better ... But found that twisting exercises under hot water worked a treat. So still do them as soon as a slight ache there.

Chris when is the best bird held up at the Channel for instance, and hops 22 miles over the water first light, better tan a bird ... tired from previous days' exertion, chilled by early colsd watery winds, and then face another 200 -350, 450 miles further over a different terrain and beaten by less than 5 ypm not camparable at least with the bird that has sat on it's nest the last 8 hours twiddling it's beak! Not taking away from the winner... so that can be laid to rest. Never seen these 'Well Known' and so called great flyers move to a less oppertune location to prove a point... Funnily enough have only ever seen them move to a more prime site. Niether have you, unless Family or work dictates it to be so!

Seriously though, when one looks at the 'Locations' and what other birds flying further with a wind not helping at all for instance, then has the 'Best Bird' won the 'National'. How many winner's are actually the Best on the day! And there has be a few... This of course is not sour grapes, nor the ole potatoe of a Jealousy. For instance Ken Pothercary's y/b flew 80 miles further westward inland to be beaten into 3rd in a crisp N. West wind only to be beaten by 3 ypm. Now that was without any doubt, let alone question the best bird by far ... but 3rd.

Seriously, when looks at the Locations and other birds flying further and with a wind not helping at all for instance, let's have the 'National' winner tat was acyually the Best on the day! And there has be a few...

Because you are special lol Ribble... But I was pointing out to whoever read that statement that there was and is a lot more to it than just what you posted. Not personally to just you ... Golly you'll have us Curteosy you next lol.

www.rarecolorpigeons.com Lot's of little tib bits I look over from time to time... find some quite interesting, hope some of you do too.