Roland

Agreed ... likewise with the Belgium etc. And sadly there is a blind concept following of a couple of British studs etc. that doesn’t hold much water ... one swallow doesn't make a summer as they say.... Was / is a myth one so many... 1st National 4th section... where are now, come on it was either 4th section 237 and 1832 National or 1st National. Remember well the struggle I had when - I first kept pigeons for my self 1986 (The family was involved since mid 50's) over Stamvater. Undoubtedly a breeder and a half... But I thought he'd also won nationals races. Now Mozzarella was as honest as a day is long when making money, which when one puts the money where their mouth is and invest they richly deserve, and rightly so to make a few bob. When one fabricates for own gain certain facts then I personally haven't much time for them, whether they are / were great flyers. And many still believe the baloney so often printed of course. Shame but that is human nature I guess.

Stu That wasn't the point I was making, and as person that sells pigeons I regard you personally, from what I have heard, that you are one of the better ones by far... and genuine. One for instance that will put forward for a good cause without looking for the AD andslap on the back. I for instance know of serveral real great breeders that has bred and who in fact supply many of the so called grat names ... yes they can do well with the birds etc. But that be as it may, many aren't known possibly by most here for instance. And as such though very good birds they breed, with their name thay would sell much say over here... but under another well known name that flew them well... Likewise, the Netherlands are / have been possiblely the best distance flyers for some time now, especially when one looks at the performances in regards of ratio in birds sent. Then the Kipps Brothers!They must be the most fornominal of flyers... 17 timed in from Barcelona after dark to win! 3 in a minute at 1 02... then 1 03 /04 etc. 17 before 1 20 in the morning. Those putting names up know of Kipps brothers etc. is all I am saying, and many truely greats are missing ... but then they are selling feathers I suppose. And another thing, argueably the best birds of europe, the Continent are over here... regardless whether still advertised and sold as still there. Then the So call Fellows that import rings and sell as ...

nO not a womans disease... men can catch it too ... but it is the same as what pigeons get... a form of canker.

Seems the pack is being followed. Many greats are not heard of that supply these NAMES with the stock and birds. Stu and co should know this. Also Haven't seen any of the Greats that are out of 'Location' being given a mention! So follow the Feather Sellars, and position. YYes it goes with out saying these names are class acts... but the best....

Agree Mac1 100% not a speed merchant of the skies.

Garlic is, I believe the most / Best preventive, and immune builder around. It is also good for letting birds lose wieght. and titghening up. So too regular is a bad thing as they don't like it in the water, and won't drink a proper fill. Hence becaoming thirsty, and then dehybo to lose wieght.

True Bruno ... next time you correspond with Gordon ask him ... I think you'll find I am right. Interesting that you mentioned the Yeast etc. Had a great debate (Heated) on the Canadian site) where I was validated. John Munns first put me wise in that respect. And it was from Vets in Belgium / Germany that emphasised the different strains. Was a time when no one bothered till it was taken from the throat wrapped around a match lol. 50 years ago now. Was also, via John informed that many, him included, that sometimes use the same as what the get from chemists. Cleared it proper, because, as I stated, after 2/3 times whatever you use to clear Canker, it quickly becomes immune to it. Hence the reason I said one must keep changing the 'Cure' and once in a while go to the Supermarket lol.

Jim Biss of course was a mucker of Dordins and bought some good birds ... which many thought would set Pierre back a bit... a for a minute, if any thing he went stronger.

Well if two crossed the line together with a ET. And it printed out the one you wanted first second... then you would ask that the first one be struck off, and not counted. Likewise with two in the thimble. Both birds could have won, so both in reality qualify for the pools... if it was second read it would still be the first pool pigeon if the other wasn't poled... or am I missing something

Pierre Dordin was French ... can't recall a Beie one... but then I may well be wrong.

Well Tony, I do agree with your views of course. But it seems that Vets here are limited, and as such some just fob you off.... But there again if there is treatment and the results are good .. well then it is well spent I guess. Just dubious as to what they can and are able to actually tell you.

Tony C. the truth may well be that you are bholden to their truthfulness. If there is nowt wrong why send grated... but just for a check up I figure personally a waste of time... and money. And then I will save money again if any superficial finds are found. A birds eye is the window of health. It plummage etc. a sure pointer and how it feels in the hand egard what the state is and what it needs to ne. Now they are rsting, and love just plodding about and showers / baths... their condition is that what is needed now.... Bet most time the same results are posted back ... like that 'Speeding Camera, 34 mph, or what not. So I feel you are only getting how honest the vet is. And if they can test for... then why send if all the point are rife? Most, like you know when your birds is off... and mainly why. And also the good ones are seldom off it appears.

Like ply for the sides... prefer a chip board for floors, the main thing being that it breathes. Secondarily I rewcommend a tray where you place the water fountain... and take the water away anyway when they have runken. Water I believe should only be given when thay want to drink and not left around. A baking tray works a trreat to stop wet on the floor. Chip board is great also for scraping. If Bee's wax is rubbed in well, the water never gets to the wood. You can swab it out is you so desire as it is water proof.

Canker is the same as the womens desiese of Thrush... ever present. There are I believe 27 diferent stains. Hence I feel thet a wide spread of herbs would be needed. Also a mild canker is good, and very effective in keeping other Strains away. So if mild and not causing probles, why shift! Does it need shifting, for the bird will quickly get it's self another one. Indeed there are thoughts that it may well go with a healthy pigeon. I for one believe that, and so do many others, including Vets etc. Like to see Bruno's views on my last post...

If I owned Shegar he'd probably have been give kids rides for 50p on the seaside. Some might say that he'd lived longer and enjoyed life more. So it's the same as it's not only how good the gun is, but how well one shoots. Many 'Labs' are limited as to what they are able to test for. Indeed only must like in all walks of life have confidence in the 'Lab' one is paying. It is after al a paid exercise, and if 70% of what ailments affects birds aren't catered for, then I look a little sideways personally. As for canker, for instance, it is good to have a mild dose, as this fights and keeps away other strains that might be a spot worse. Respirationary tracts are important, and cocci etc. but lets face it most novices seem learn about them and how to cure them etc. I so see no point them being an issue. Now Samanella... yes,but are many strains and forms of.... and prevention is simple in an orderly and looked after loft. So lets go through what ailments are needed to be sent away for. I Jab three times last season for parra etc. because they needed it. Use to think that the Belgiums only done it as y/b's and it was a rip off. But seems that they should be jabbed at least twice, one at 4 weeks, another 4 weeks later or so. Then again even. Way things are going it may well be compulsory here ...

Jimmy I use to argue that very same point, different heights ... was explained that Side winds meant same height... but wind would still mean some face a side head wind, whereas others would be a Side following wind. Mind have mind homing as the Barnsley fed go up, about a 100 yards away, and can honestly say that even the young birds just come straight through, or slight curve which is natural I guess, but never ever seen one that wanted home stop for a moment. So I don't think that makes a jot to clashing. Likewise I have never seen birds go left at the lake etc., and I was a 100 yards between two lakes, one 2 and a half miles by 2 miles, the other closed in now, and 50 yards from a Church. You know what, never mayde a jot of difference, birds go by, are release 2 miles over loking the ake and loft... lost just the same.

Hi John, Personally I'd like to know JUST what the can and do TEST for. Many I have seen, spoke to are limited to just what het can cater for.

IF THIS IS NOT SARCASTIC THEN WHAT IS Fine I believe you ... that's why after asking the same questions week in week out, day in and day out one is still asking ... I rest my case. Fine I believe you ... Nothing sacarstic there then ... So we go forward and point OUT A FACT ... that's why after asking the same questions week in week out, day in and day out one is still asking ... I could say / imply that some were taking the Pee there in Rose (Like many more) - getting nowhere are geting nowhere, and thjat IT has been fruitless asking ... Hence the facts speak differently from one would like and indeed expect, Rose just to name one. Tam It is the art of diplomacy to tell a proud new father he's baby is ugly ... Me I aint the diplomatic, but just .... Ah there we have it... It is because - as I was going to say - I just bluntly spell facts as I see them... Hence why I put either a - or ... instad of and' explainings etc. So it must be the way I write, and if that offends, or is taken as sarcastic, then sorry, but so be it.

Possibly, but then again I don't see that as sarcastic. Probably how you read it... I'm certain Rose doesn't think that! Indeed just what is sarcastic about that!

Many Gareth, don't even race y/b's... I seldom ever both to either. 4/5 races in nine years. Was speaking to a very knowleageable and good flyer just at seasons start... he was surprised that his yearlings that had never been tossed came as quick as any on the first chuck of just over 60 miles.... I'd been surprised if they didn't lol

Fine I believe you ... that's why after asking the same questions week in week out, day in and day out one is still asking ... I rest my case. And I believe that Mick is the only one that is conversing on here. As the old 'Proven' saying goes, the proof of cooking is in the eating... seems will are expected to starve.

What has entitlement got to do with it eh! The reason it has gone on so long is simply because it can! and will! As for my Delegate, he will stick to what he's told to like the rest which is what they have decide. Which again is 'Nowt be said or confirmed. And as for having confidence in the committee ... well out side of Mick NO one has, or could have confidence in them... And Mick will be hauled in, braced and buckled gobbed or - yhey will make it , well so he givess up and leaves. They have been umpteen done that! And again Rose, unfortunately paying your Club fee hasn't ever got you your rights... seldom if ever will it either UNLESS it suits them! And as for where your money is going it is simplt the same again... look at the AGM edited Accounts. So why does one think anythink will change eh.

I don't think avoiding answers is the wrong stance Rose (for them!). When there’s nowt good to say ... Say nowt, ride the storm and be heard in the lull is, I believe, the only way the NFC can go. As frustrating as it is. They will shout loud enough when they have had time to reform and set a new strategy. They shout loud enough when there is something to shout about... until then they will - quite correctly - stay mum. Things will pass and be soon best be forgotten, why! Who knows, it mat well be that 80% will be clapping and cheering them in 12 months as to what a knowledgeable bunch they were that quite rightly proved themselves to be correct by saying nothing... besides you can't raise an objection, a point of view or even a proper query when they say nowt. Fickleness is rampant in this sport, as time as shown time and time after time. Any one that has created a name, as a Breeder or good racer will be followed sheepishly and led every time. Rich men will again as always be applauded whilst robbing them blind. So when certain ones say ‘ A load of Cods – wallop’ then the mass will be enthralled, yes and spout as to just how smart they were, and that ‘They knew all along that they knew what they were doing … In the mean time, those that are getting dried out from the P**S being drawn out will have left, a the Clubs and B. the sports. And money making machinery will still be followed to the bitter end lol.

Soss

True mucker... But you will never put a team together by sitting back and waiting. If your birds can fly 100 miles over the water, then they can fly the same North east west or where ever... and of course 4/500 miles + any direction. But they need testing, and if sent fit and conditioned, then on a decent day you can't lose a good bird by sending it any direction, that's all I'm say really, That it doesn't matter which way or why, as long as... Regards Roland