Roland

Off course. It is the simplest of starting. Grass roots need to make these so called custodians aware that Time enough. They must Crap or get off the pot. Next club meting such should be passed at all clubs and sent to the Federations. Nothing ventured, nothing gain! At least is only a slight decrease of birds being fed to the B.O.P. AT least y/b losses would degrease by a very large extent. That in it's self is a bonus.

Their favourite kill is the Pheasant. Remember well my son in -law - going to display. The Percy would go up and around and back for it's tib bit. Then just after the Falconer sent it up he saw a Pheasant. He groaned and moaned spouted 'It won't come back till it has taken the head off it. Try as he might he couldn't retrieve it till after it had killed the Pheasant etc.,

Firstly a think tank of all club members in all feds. Any and all propositions sent to Fed and them on to all other Fed clubs for debating. Then propositions put forward to Fed any prepositions to be discussed and voted on. No need for any hierarchy to be involved at this stage, …. But thoughts and what the votes state to be passed on to National clubs. Be nice for them to be kept in the loop. Next year maybe, just maybe, some beneficial changes will take place. Others propositions to be voted and took noticed off next October etc. At least thoughts, and a way forward may take a few steps forward. This would begin at the grass roots. Would also mean that higher organisations will get the drift and start to get off their' backsides and start trying to do something ... some things worth while instead of just taking in our money! Granted we need them! But they are there and been voted in to look after OUR and the BIRDS interests.

True Delboy … and nothing, absolutely nothing to help solve, or make things better … LET alone what's going to be the new Agenda … That is the same old one too ' Weer, you know I would, … but it's the others'. Psss WAKE up, you are one of the others'! -

I agree some what Delboy… and yes as reported by Feds and letters in the B/W Percy and how Percy and co QUEUE UP at lib sites WAITING FOR THE RELEASE. Yet still the feds and stupid club members vote each season to release there. Yes agree not many safe havens to release... Hang on have a Dekkers around, there are very many NEW sites etc. Many untried. Our fault, we should - being the clever one with reasoning ability - alter and CERTAINLY not have libs there week in and week out! Our fault and problem not the birds! You know Delboy, we will continue to sit on our hands and do nowt, TRY nothing and the whinging will be even louder till in 4-5 years possibly less the sport will be no more than a memory. Then the shout will be 'They saw this coming and did nothing! Especially when seeing it coming and happening! But worse still WE DIDN'T EVEN TRY ANYTHING … EXCEPT WHINGE AND MOAN A LOT MORE! It isn't he that tries and fails that is the defeatist … it is he that didn't even try!

Well out of all this, are we to believe that the National, Section governing bodies haven't a clue as to we have a problem. Off course they do .. but outside oF pursing lips and nodding heads NOTHING! As for Percy, of course that is a thorn in the side.... But to lay the blame there is unfair. Once they hit a flock the birds are terrified and scatter etc. But can't be held for the disastrous results most weeks from races etc. Nothing ventured nothing gained.Don't mould the consensus, but consense the mould. Maybe time to shoot the messeger ...

You know, he knows and we all see them. The committees personsAT every LEVEL who are supposedly looking after our interests... MORESO our birds, with their self important postures and smiles. they false deep sigh when agreeing. Even spouting things need to change etc. Oh yeah! Well for another certainty nothing with ever change until we move and start going for a change! He who pays the piper calls the tune! Or should do and the grass roots are funding these people and concerns and take the 'Honour' and appease themselves full stop. As read today@ 'The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new,'.

One or two, well more thing for certain are sitting on the hands mean you can't pick your nose. Twiddling thumbs should stay with knitting and it TAKES one Step to start a trip of a 1000 miles. - Which will be I'm afraid! lets ask you all, 'Just when does one, or you want to see change and progress, and the very important help needed for our beloved birds … 10 years, 20 years, when we and the sport are dead and gone! P.S. can't for love or money see any National being interested and chance losing their comfy chairs and other self investments. Never has happened and NEVER will in any walk of life... and certainly not in our so - called sport. Question is 'Why should, would they? …. Everyone know that answer. Needs to start now, at next club meeting. Need to then let the FEDERATIONS know we are losing unhappy members... LET them know we are losing our BIRDS galore. Yes they know, but don't give a rats behind! Why should thay as long as their nests are well feathered and 'Members' look up to them as they smile down at them!

Can't start at National level. How? the grass roots would have to have the first change. Nationals will only choose dates that suit to be flown on. NO COMMITTEE at Fed or higher will even think about having any change. those that have tried in past have all be out voted, maneuverer and forced out or just simply gave up.

Very true Delboy .. But fear it is now down to the members to start a process to better the sport. philg50 agree to a large extent... also the RPRA and other bodies. However as we know, and their history proves, they will only act / do so when forced via a members growing concerns. I don't think for a moment that any will even jot a thought in this regards. A spokes mens is needed and clubs needed to start the process. So to you both, and many more of such thinking no change means more of the same ... Sorry even more detrimental seasons in this down ward spiral. Time to act is now, before programmes Breeder / Buyers are arranged. Before voting is took a voice to be heard.

Really! Hammering another nail to the detriment of our sport.

Now, the greed to steal a march. gain any yard going, and the urge to Race is paramount ... sadly to the detrimental cost and downward trend and spiralling of the so-called sport is in today. Sadly only ever to get worse. I, like many others, try most seasons for a later start to racing, and of course, a later finish. Cold winds invariably, plus mostly from the East. Sense! forget the first part none and have nonsense to our peril. Look at the returns - again this year already and even half a brain should be able to understand the nonsensible and stupidness yet again practised these past two weeks. Returns. North Rd cancelled. South Road put back a day. Even though the weather forecast and reality was far worse from the South Coast. The results were less than a 5th. Stu 3 from 15 and so on. Bicc I hear went from Falaise France 32 from 2400 after over 6 hours. And so on. Never mind the twaddle of 'If good enough they will do it'! Does this reflect on how many culls went to the even the short distances? was the time, not so long ago when early March was considered even too early to mate up. Many 1st weeks in April. Youngsters, like the old birds, flew the distance. the longer races 240 - 380 miles. Seasons end the problem often was 'Which had to go. Losses on a Saturday were usually on the loft next morning... 2-3 days and then believed lost. - Many came back on the Wednesday / Thursday which was basketed on Friday and some even won! Youngster healthier bred. Also held their feathering longer. Now we know that we can easily fly our birds even into Mid to Late September. To far better weather at that - Ok 1976 and a few over years were poor weatherwise ... But then regardless when born or sent it would have been the same. Take the so stupid scenario of the longest race. On the North most seasons Lerwick. 'Must be the Saturday NEAREST to June the 22nd! Because it means 6 MINUTES LONGER DAYLIGHT! EEK! When it was proven that that liberation then was liable for very unsettled weather. Can be clear one minute and foggy 2 minutes later! Yet in July times were vastly superior! Timing in at 2 O'clock was not unheard off with far better returns! Youngster losses stating in August fared far better. All facts. And yet some / most rush to get the breeding over and on the Dark or Light system. Gain a march? Very expensive at that... and the costs each season is rising. I get jeered because I don't entertain racing till in May! I wonder how many wished that they hadn't sent these two past weeks? Indeed JUST how many wished today that there hadn't been racing last two weeks. Would have meant the same amount of races, but far more pigeons come seasons end ... Does one really think, believe that they are giving themselves AND the sport fair innings? Well, I suppose that depends on who is 'Tickling their' ear' and who they follow and vote for... plus preparing to restock so very often. Yes, breed more to compensate their' losses. Any and every excuse is made bar looking in the mirror. Lofts full of culls means now one- one too many are prepared to lose many good birds for the hope and wing of a prayer that they might, just might have a winner ... and HANG THE COST! JMO.

Good post Fifer! THE 20,000 fancier today send times more than the 150.000 did in the late 50's / the 60's! Breed to counteract losses! Where are we here! Outsiders looking in would incredulously spout 'Get away with yer'! 'Are you for real'!~? Breed later - end of March early April. 1st race 1st or 2nd week May. Practical and still have 24 plus Nationals races! If that isn't enough, then I suggest the pigeons are in the wrong lofts! Percy will still be about. The RSPB will make sure of that. Will always have some bad day races... But far, far fewer. Birds need to be rotated these days like they were, naturally, years ago. 6 week is the time of Super Form... 7 weeks Tops. So with the nest circles etc. one Can / Could have some on song EVERY race. Better bred and healthy conditioned youngsters when reproduced later too … Specific a pointer, or factor for y/b losses. Time to get the pigeons Mentally fit first and then physically fit. They work in conjunction. But then we are wasting our breath because the Fancier, the so-called pigeon and sports lover want others to change, but not him. So I think it's time to discard the soapbox of many years in this regards and watch the fancier carry on their' downward traits. None so blind as those that WON'T see. Yes, the detrimental characteristics prevailing now will worsen, and countless excuses amid vain hopes will abound. You know, for the first time in over sixty years I'm glad to be out the sport. Embarrassed even more with the treatment of our unique, brave, wonderful and beautiful pigeons. The pigeon that - most (ly) give their all for unfeeling and selfish so-called sports people with total disregard for the 'Wonders and ability that are treated in this disgusting way! Yes! Many love and appreciate the birds, and their attributes... but sadly the lesser selfish fancier does, and will continue to spout and rule. Yes, I am ashamed regards the attitude and disgraceful fanciers as stated. Breeding birds to LOSE. To feed Percy and care not a jot... then I wonder why I, YES I should be ashamed! Well, it is because I am, will be, or maybe tarred with the same brush.

geordie1234 I agree, A longer season doesn't bare thinking about lol philg50 says 'The trouble is we all know losses are terrible but no one has the answer ,climate change ,darkness,over medication ,vaccination who knows the reason i dont ,what about banning darkness and dont issue rings until 1st of march'. Getting back to the nature of our birds as near as possible would certainly help for starters I have no doubt. Think personally that would be a good start. Start racing later, and no need to lose races flown … And certainly no need to have transporter idle for 2 week in mid season. Even today after the sun was up, I thought 8 o'clock up they go... 200 miles! They'd be home nicely well before 2 O'clock at the latest. Breeding in better weather and giving a better climate for the youngsters.

You know this is a serious problem...! Doesn't one think it's time to be serious and get serious about sorting it out!

You know, the amount posted, not only on this site, but most other tells it's own story! It tells me that racing returns and losses are now getting unacceptable … (like I've banged on about for years). That fanciers, disheartened and dismayed are peed off! Not really about the cost etc in monetary terms, but the welfare and losses and the believe that , not only are they unacceptable BUT time for a change is over due! How is the stumbling block then is 'How can others make an improvement 'For Me WITHOUT me having to change my ways and habits'! Knight in white shiny armour was a myth too... they were in reality skulduggery mercenaries that raped and pillage the country side robbing and Killing. the 'Knight Templers' were so rich that the Roman Catholic was richer. Indeed it was the Catholic Church' that eventually put a stop to them because they could no longer control them etc. Yes here were are hopinG that something like will suit our purposes! It won't happen! Only way forward is to Vote at club level and present to Feds and governing Bodies. Time to take a stand in out own affairs for a change ( no Pun intended) but Change is needed, and needed NOW! So I say to the 'Spanner throwers@ what are you? Man or mouse squeak up! Plus please stop putting B.O.P. into the thesis! they are nothing to do with this debate. They are a completely different concern and needing a different approach / Ideas. The changes we are on about won't change one iota regards Percy and co killing. That is another story altogether!

In reality first O/b races should start even later than what they used to MAY. Put together in late March or 1st / 2nd week in April if not needing two rounds … they 2 rounds were bred and raced the whole program. Too many think that they would be behind and not 'Steal a March'! Bred 3 youngster - egg in June that flew Thurso in Late September 479 miles. (Was in the now defunct Midland North Road National. Many a time our youngster flew Elgin and or / Perth. Nigh all fanciers once flew Berwick 250 mile. Elgin and Perth a lot further of course ..

Accepted Del 'I've not changed my mind Roland, I'm always looking to better the sport'. That I've always believed off you Delboy! I can't, for love or money understand a jot why fanciers, who supposedly love the pigeons and the sport Can't be happy with 24 races plus Nationals. Especially if having 'Really' having their birds, let alone the sport's interests at heart. Sorry but that smacks as Selfishness at the highest degree. J.M.O thoughts which will never ever change! Basically looking at the bigger picture and well being of one and all... Especially the pigeons! If one is upset via this post, sorry. but maybe just again a Mirror and a look into the heart might surprise the honest one. Mind and Heart !

Gosh, seems Del has changed his mind then. I thought a few weeks back I and others said the same as Del. Time for change... Certainly. Even a postal vote etc. Nothing to do with B.O.P. whatsoever so why chuck thAT OLD SPANNER INTO THE WORKS?! They will kill whatever, so why chuck that old useless spanner in the works! Fact is Climate change IS taking an effect. We must move to HELP our birds and stop being silly and LAUGH out loud at those protecting their corners. Yes one get comfortable with HABITS! Yes not many like change! Especially for 'Change Sake'! But this isn't the case. Every year, year in and year out now will see worse happenings. Yes still head burying holds fast! Do the same … or if getting worst why not carrying doing the same and let it get worse. Yeah Right … hold on isn't that what is happening and getting worse!

First step of a 1000 miles takes just one to start it eh! Good on her... I'll think about adding her to the Xmas list. Think on that, maybe it would be nice if we all sent our regards to the paper too for publishing it!

I found the addiction was waiting - and worrying when racing. I would pace between sitting with mingling thoughts of ;Have I done them right' should I have sent …. ones' Maybe another week' All the time worrying regards getting them back REGARDLESS of how well prepared and confidence I had... Then great feel of enjoyment / Buzz elation of seeing the speck in the sky that was MY pigeon homing in... annoyed yes lol if the arched and done their lap of honour lol. Then afterwards I would wonder how well - or poorly - that they had done. But that was far behind in second place. 'They were there to fly again# was the paramount being, the love. Thoughts and reasons are from the brain … Passion belongs to the heart!

True Jim. As I said earlier on another post '...… Maris Bead, although an older variety and hence slightly lower yielding in trial situations proves to be a profitable crop for many growers. It is generally more resistant to disease than more modern varieties. Determinate, with good standing and good disease resistance, Maris Bead is relatively cheap and easy to grow. Sow late Feb. to late March. Harvest late August onwards. Aim for 16% moisture. Tics are not easy to dry once combined. Even after time they don't dry out or lose any fat etc. Also they contain oils and the such is needless. Just another Placebo for own comfort zone. 5 properties for health. Adding oils etc. to them and what nots doesn't add anything to the bird. Once a cup is brim full it is full!. Also remember ALL tic beans, regardless of age retain their fat.

Acorns are, believe it or not, a superb feed all the year round. After the war they became a very good feed... Till the corn stores / farmers made it easier to spend your money.

You know, I once posted up actually, year or more beans are no different than new and fresh ones. The myth came about that they lost fat etc. Untrue. Exactly the same. Doc. Walker's book states same as do very many other meds etc. UK Tic beans are small rounded seeds with a slightly darker skin than Victor types. The hilum is also typically black. Much favoured by pigeon fanciers in the UK, Europe and the Middle East. There is also some human consumption trade to the Mediterranean and to the Far East. The main variety in the UK is Maris Bead. UK pigeon fanciers tend to prefer darker seeded lots, even over-yeared ones as they find digestibility improves with age. Continental fanciers, however, prefer new season paler skinned lots. UK Tic beans offered for shipment throughout the year from crops grown locally. Growing Tic Beans. Maris Bead, although an older variety and hence slightly lower yielding in trial situations proves to be a profitable crop for many growers. It is generally more resistant to disease than more modern varieties. Determinate, with good standing and good disease resistance, Maris Bead is relatively cheap and easy to grow. Sow late Feb. to late March. Harvest late August onwards. Aim for 16% moisture. Tics are not easy to dry once combined. Even after time they don't dry out or lose any fat etc. Also they contain oils and the such is needless. Just another Placebo for own comfort zone. 5 properties for health. Adding oils etc. to them and what nots doesn't add anything to the bird. Once a cup is brim full it is full!.

I've often, as so many good medic etc. have! A feel good factor for us only. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45434753