Roland

Yep, let's see you bring ham the bacon.

Lol, great store is set by 'Boris the Buffon' eh! :emoticon-0136-giggle:

Good to have you aboard matey. - Any free youngsters off your champion birds will be appreciated here lol.

Good to see you here. Also, it is great to see that you have already posted. Welcome aboard.

Have words and ask if he is aware.

Unbelievable! REDCHEQHEN. All clubs I have been in have done so. (Sorry one had to change as I relate to later) Indeed after studying an account from the auditors to discuss in any other business and then at the A.G.M. One brilliant Secretary was once ordered to pay back part of his phone bills as it was all in 'Pigeons Regard'. Another time where we had bought certain things were debated and changed to lesser charged suppliers. I put forward once, after what I thought was stupid, that the Sec and treasurer couldn't be man and wife etc. Two names on every cheque and further another appointed member was to look at it before spent … Not the day to day running obviously. Two signatures from not related persons helps to lessen any fraud. Auditors safe guard too the Sec/ Treasurer too. We, of course, vote for and trust designated positions. Of course we do … But temptation will often raise it ugly head. Have seen first hand a few unbelievable happenings when club Secs have swindled money. I think any and all safe guards should be put into place in every club and Federation to not only safe guard the clubs etc. BUT also the men / woman of elected positions.

As always too dear. Many culls sold via a supposed name. Sorry.

One part I found interesting was '… According to academics, these findings seem to confirm that the primary cause for this disease was still to be discovered, and that the different pathogens are no more than secondary pathogens that take advantage of the pigeon's health situation to further aggravate or complicate the disease. That is why a number of reputable researchers and veterinary surgeons, led by Dr. Elisabeth Peus (Germany) started to investigate different causes for the disease. Often blab on about the immune system How immunity is weaken via family incense/mating's. Why some get Y/B's and others don't... , personally don't think it is 'Luck, nor the adage that 'Everyone Gets it' but don't A. Know it, or B. they are liars for an instant, I've never had it. Birds were always tip top condition. Plus I never ever had close mating's. So what I have often spouted is that the Birds were of a weak immunity, and the Second ailment weaken it further. Good immunity meant the3 First illness wasn't controlled and got shot off.

I have asked Karl for permission before in regards posting from his web Site, and he stated Anything that may be of use to fellow fanciers I am welcomed to! Roland

But well Worth it. Must mention I took this from Karl's posting on the Alberta website. Rotavirus as the causative agent of YBS by Karl » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:05 pm Breakthrough in the medical guidance of racing birds Author: 10/01/2020 - Ruben Lanckriet Veterinary surgeon Ruben Lanckriet wrote an in-dept and well-grounded report on a medical breakthrough regarding the rotavirus, and the vaccine that was recently registered. The Rotavirus and its role as primary cause for young pigeon disease For years, pigeon fanciers have seen such symptoms as vomiting, diarrhoea and deaths among their young birds. A watchful fancier could often spot these issues in advance, when the young birds suddenly struggle to arrive home after a training flight, or when one or more pigeons would hesitantly walk to the feeding tray, if at all. Crop retention is often seen among these pigeons as well, also referred to as water in the crop. This means the gastrointestinal function is affected. This in turn can lead to vomiting, and the pigeons' droppings can become affected as well, and can sometimes turn green, as a result of the pigeons no longer eating. Oftentimes, you can spot yellow pigments in their urine as well, which indicates a major liver problem. An autopsy will often reveal major liver damage. By taking quick action, using antibiotics, anti-parasitic drugs, usually against trichomoniasis or hexamita, and liver supporting supplements, you can limit the impact of the disease or eradicate the disease from your young birds' loft entirely. This suggests that the young pigeon disease is often linked to a bacterial and/or parasitic component, although this syndrome had never been fully understood. Based on earlier research and autopsies from the 1990s, the adenovirus was considered to be the main cause. However, more recent autopsies on pigeons that died from the young bird disease have shown that the virus has been found only sporadically. In addition, researchers failed to trigger the same symptoms in pigeons that were deliberately infected with the adenovirus or other potential pathogens. For years, international academics suggested that the adenovirus could not be the primary cause, or that it was no longer the primary cause, if you assume that it had been in the past (the so-called adenovirus types I and II). That is why in recent decades the disease is increasingly referred to as "young pigeon disease syndrome" or YPDS. And yet, the disease is still colloquially referred to as "adeno", because it used to be described as the adeno-coli syndrome in the past. The adenovirus is sometimes found (but rather sporadically) when performing an autopsy on such pigeons, although in many cases the herpes or circo-virus is much more prevalent. Some pigeons had the paramyxovirus in their system, while bacteria like E. coli (which explains the need for antibiotics) and such parasites like trichomonas are sometimes discovered as well, just like hexami (although not as frequent). However, none of these pathogens were found every single time. In fact, it occurred regularly that none of these pathogens were spotted at all. Besides, the E. Coli bacterium is known to live in the (large) intestine. When E. Coli is found in the large intestine during an autopsy, this basically means nothing. When the bacterium was found in a spot other than the large intestines however, researches surprisingly discovered that the bacterial strains that were found among pigeons with the worst symptoms had few or no pathogenic features when they typified the bacteria's DNA, even though these strains were found in the duodenum (the first part of the small intestine), which is not where they are commonly found. According to academics, these findings seem to confirm that the primary cause for this disease was still to be discovered, and that the different pathogens are no more than secondary pathogens that take advantage of the pigeon's health situation to further aggravate or complicate the disease. That is why a number of reputable researchers and veterinary surgeons, led by Dr. Elisabeth Peus (Germany) started to investigate different causes for the disease. In the meantime, a new disease broke out in Australia in 2016, which led to many deaths among both old and young birds. The symptoms of this disease had a remarkable resemblance to what we have seen in Europe for years, the difference being that it affected many old birds as well, which has not been the case in Europe (except in the 1990s, when the disease first appeared). After a lot of diagnostic research and the exclusion of adeno, PMV, herpes etc., and thanks to the efforts of veterinary surgeon Colin Walker and others, it was eventually discovered that this 'new' disease was caused by the not previously defined Rotavirus type A. Since this diagnose was established in Victoria, it was referred to as the Victorian pigeon virus. Following the warnings from Australia, the FCI decided to ban all Australian pigeons from their FCI one loft races, which the Million Dollar Race in South Africa had already decided to do in 2017. In part thanks to these discoveries, European researchers such as Dr. Rubbenstroth (from the Friedrich Loeffler Institute, a former project manager at the Freiburg University) began screening for variants of the Rotavirus. The results soon revealed that the rotaviruses - which is similar to the Victoria Virus - were found in all the diagnostic materials from young birds that had carried the symptoms described earlier. Moreover, these variants were more commonly found in pigeons with the worst symptoms. The variants of these viruses were to some extent similar to the Victoriavirus, although they were not identical. And research that was conducted on older diagnostic materials from years ago led to the same conclusion. There was a higher occurrence of these Rotavirus variants in almost all of the diagnostic samples of the typical young pigeon disease YPDS that had been stored, including the oldest samples from the year 2000. Interestingly enough, researchers also discovered newer variants of this virus every several years, and these appeared to affect more pigeons. Additionally, they were able to experimentally reproduce the symptoms by infecting young birds with this newly found virus, which clearly proves that the primary cause had finally been discovered! In hindsight, it does seem like the rumours of a 'new' disease emerging, as was suggested by different media and fanciers, were simply not true. Researchers believe that this virus has always been the primary cause for the young pigeon disease, and I share this opinion. The truth is that the disease had not yet been adequately investigated. That does not mean that the other pathogens involved should be neglected or ignored of course. As such, it is conceivable that the Australian virus does have European origins. But how can you explain the phenomenon of Australian old birds getting sick and dying? Well, this is likely to be one of many instances of a pathogen not initially spread among Australia's animal population. As a result, this new pathogen could easily affect these highly susceptible pigeons, including the old birds. In Europe, these viruses have been found across the entire population, and so the old birds have already developed immunity, which keeps them from contracting the disease. However, it is likely that European old birds still get infected with this virus regularly as well, albeit at a subclinical level, without clear symptoms. This infection will then act like a type of booster vaccine. For years, rotaviruses have been known to cause severe gastrointestinal problems among humans and animals. Looking back, it seems to make sense that this type of virus can lead to similar symptoms and illnesses among pigeons and birds. From late 2017 onwards a more severe variant of the Rotavirus has been wreaking havic in our regions, causing many deaths among young birds, with a peak from March to June 2018, as well as in the spring of 2019. Each time the typical symptoms occurred (crop stasis, vomiting, severe liver damage in young birds), the Rotavirus was found in the liver during the autopsy. It was only in 2019 that diagnostic labs, under the impulse of a number of vets, have started to provide routine tests to test for the Rotavirus in the pigeons' organs or droppings. A major benefit and one of the most crucial conclusions of these studies for pigeon fanciers, is that pigeons can be easily vaccinated against the Rotavirus relatively. The production of Rotavirus vaccines began in 2018 and mostly last year, comprising both auto vaccines (vaccines suited only for pigeon families) and commercially available vaccines. To me, as a veterinary surgeon, the effectiveness of these vaccinations is the greatest evidence of this breakthrough in the medical guidance of racing birds: pigeons are clearly well protected against this disease once we administer this vaccine, and it reduces the number of deaths to near zero. It is my impression that it takes around 14 days for the vaccine to provide optimal protection, which means the disease can still strike until two weeks after vaccination. Logically speaking, the longer the pigeons are vaccinated, the greater the chance of them not dying, which we have seen in practice. There appears to be a difference in the severity of the disease if the pigeons get sick two days after the vaccination as compared to ten days. In addition, some fellow veterinary surgeons have indicated that they have successfully administered an emergency vaccination: vaccinating a diseased pigeon to gain control over the disease more quickly. Although I think prevention is always the better option. In any case, it is strongly recommended to preventatively vaccinate your young birds in time, especially if you have had many diseased or dead pigeons in previous years. It goes without saying that we still have limited knowledge on which of the vaccination schemes would offer the best protection. We will likely have to take into account maternal immunity (when the mother's antibodies are transferred to the egg), and the fact that vaccines have to be administered in time to be ahead of a possible infection. At the age of four weeks, pigeons are probably still too young for an effective vaccination, because of the maternal immunity still playing a role. Perhaps this could be bypassed with two or three different vaccinations with an interval of a few weeks. The best age could well be 6 to 8 weeks old. Needless to say, research is still ongoing. You can always consult your vet for further advice. We would like to extensively thank the many colleagues and researchers involved, for their scientific efforts and for what has clearly been a major breakthrough in the medical guidance of our beloved racing birds. Sources: Identification of a novel clade of group A rotaviruses in fatally diseased domestic pigeons in Europe. Rubbenstroth et al (Transbound Emerg Dis. 2019) A novel group A rotavirus associated with acute illness and hepatic necrosis in pigeons (Columba livia), in Australia. McCowan et al (PLoS One. 2018)

541 miles on the day with a velocity or 1124! Was a time when nearly every fancier sent the distance and did the programme. With far, far better returns than today. In deed when 24 pigeons was classed nigh as a 'Mob Flyer'. Yes when the biggest worry, and thought provoking aspect at seasons end was what birds would have to go … and getting ready for the shows. Great post Delboy, lovely to see. True we had smashes and long hard distance in heavy weather too in them days. Yes many report and for 3/6p (17p) were brought back on the train

Cattle salt blocks, and Mineral troughs were frequented by pigeons very much in days gone bye. Throughout the year! Yes race birds were/ are often thought to be doing 2 hours or more... when up at the troughs lol. Times when 'Fielding' was encouraged after the harvest for great picking that done them the world of good.

Yes, and I - like most will never know. I also feel that whatever a Scot decides on, he with stick rigid with. Defend it. Proclaim as a right... Like most of the human kind. Like when I was in Berwick (I believe it was- a while back now) when I read the advert regards the Scots calling the English Sassenachs! I went in, and explained that that was wrong... Yet intended some what as an supposedly insult etc. The truth is that it wasn't, nor is an Englishman. It derived from when the Jacobite's etc. uprising - calling the Scottish lowlanders Sassenachs! A Scottish Lowlander. Now so many say if taken to task 'Weer! Well an English man is from the lowlands' lol Truth is many myths become legends, and many legends become myths. That's for sure. Reading his poems, and their truth, oft so simply put, I believe that he would have been a great politician today

Nice one. A lot more easy for an English man to read, than to hear. I see, have realised obviously only too well why Rabbie's local dialect was/is so important. Hence why the Scots down here pay a good fee to bring down a man with good - and I will say - natural accent of the area. Of course, it goes without saying, that Burns is recognised the world over for a great poet. To translate the words to English- as spoken - would and will make no sense. But that in no way whatsoever distracts from the man's genius!

I like it Walter, as I also like truth. Was one time, after leaving where ROb once lived and went up to Oban. A glorious place too is that. Joyce and I went to a club and enjoyed our selve... as we always tend to. Was a Comedian on there. Boy was he funny. He had them rolling off their chairs laughing. Mind Joyce and I never understood a single word he spoke ... But knew of course he was good and well appreciated. Hence the Dialect to Roberts poem's I guess add that extra bit of flavour.

Soon be here eh! Been and spent time at Burn's Museums... Where he lived etc. Near us is a town (Corby) referred to as 'Mini Scotland' as many may note I speak of at times. Most Scottish people I speak too in Scotland well know of Corby! Indeed a couple of years back I visited Bewicke up to Frazerbough. Unbelievably the first person I spoke too- Hotel Manger, came from Corby and knew Kettering well of course. We dined out... you guessed it, the boss came from Corby... Likewise In Aberdeen, the hotel manager came from Corby … you couldn't make it up Incidentally I was in their' pigeon club for a few years too... It always been in our federation. Well in the East at that. Had two clubs at one time with both having over 40 members each- Any way I digest again lol. Often spoke regards Robbie's poems etc. with many a Scotsman. Done as an entertainer many clubs and nights out too... whether to stand for the 'Queen' or not lol. Now Corby of course celebrate the Burn's night real well. Now one thing that really stands out in my mind is that they pay real high for a reader, speaker from Ayrshire or such shire or such. They explained that in English, or such, much of the poem's character, meanings Doesn't stand like it really should, the full blend of the poem etc. and the drift and meaning. Just thought I'd mention it as I diffable on lol. But have a good night all!.. Don't shoot too many Hahhis… let the breed and … lol

No problem. Maintenance and updates are essential mate.

Flew in a hot bed of fanciers too.

Performance... Pedigrees thrown in the bottom draw till next season - to see what has bred what. Best to best means worst to worst. If one looks what has bred what in the loft, one will often see one or two birds that the best arrived from. Best hen, to best cock often mean BOTH carry the traits you want... best not wasted on each other. Line breeding is for blood, out cross for flying. …. Personally never mated close relatives.

It is classed as a native bird here by D.A.F.R.A. Jimmy White had a lot of contact with D.A.F.R.A. Also if bred and in a housed situation, and escapes it automatically. We - if caught culling certain families of birds would face a heavy punishment … Like the R.S.P.B should do if caught and penalised… But then one has to have the desire and means to do so. Remember, so the ball is always nigh in their court!

We had a hot debate and topic on here a few years back. The long and short of it was a 'Think Tank, which was to be the means of contacting the media and answering any queries. Also legally breeding and caring for Eagle Owls etc. etc. Was some notable names up for it and willing — many unique ways of financing as such. For instance, recouperate a 1p a bird sent in club and 2p every bird sent in the fed. Had Corn store putting names up for it and donating and very much more. Plus much more. There was a spoke person put up on here and other sites. Got other keepers of pigeons onboard, like Tipplers and others … and the list goes on. A bank account that needed three signatures to activate any monies spent and a right firm freely doing the book work. Till it was up and running though it had to have a quango committed to start-up and progress. This committee was to stay unknown until established. Why? Because of the RSPB. And their dirty trick brigade … like placing, for instance, B.O.P. in their dustbins to be found and telling the Police and council fibs. Much was already in place. Then one's Names to be put up and voted for after two years after establishing and getting a foothold in! NOW, who put a stop to it and made sure it never got off the ground? Why none other than the Pigeon fraternity. Many on here at that! Letters to the B.H.W.! Names and threats over the phone by some on here... Demanding that names and addresses be made public! Stupidity spouting if they donated £10 how could they be sure it wasn't stolen and put in a pocket! Brave idiots that would come out and face the man but insulted and called the wife's over the phone. Yes, even contacting and keeping the RSPB informed and working with them! It was asked by Bilco many years earlier for fancier to work alongside and find a way clear as the RSOB then offered! Fanciers who supposedly loved their feather friends stay dormant and that never got off the ground either!

Do they care! Can one prove, or take any action such a powerful force with friend in the highest places?! Simply know, and the Eagle Owl is THREAT to their' money making B.O.P.! Yes! Next the actual pigeon fancier, they are the biggest threat to our dying sport!

Time to 'Watch Over it as twitters do. Rested assures the RSPB WILL CERTAINLY CULL IT, FIRST chance!

My heart goes out to him and his family. No comment, or words, regards the having to release his beloved birds... However I'd wager it will make him very happy - though with a tint of sadness - to see his birds going to other lofts. Maybe some near to him too … so he could call in sometimes to see them time in, or what they have bred.

So very sad to hear. I, happily, did loft visit with him. Have some of his system... especially feeding. Was a larger than life character and a first class fancier. He will be missed.