Roland

I hear good to very good reports too... A few not so kind for sure. You know Alf Baker famously said 'You race the birds, not the owner'. when a few down cried his birds. However his birds won into national when flying in Belgium etc. I feel that this bears good merit. I feel the likes of John and other good flyers get the best from them in their system etc. Was at a household name fairly recently. A very good National flyer etc. He told me a story regards good money he paid for some birds of a certain strain. Bought direct etc. He said I tried every thing with them... didn't do piddly dip for me. He continued via saying another named flyer was visiting and he told- him he was getting shot of them all. The other fancier asked to try them. Ending up taking the lot. Said he never looked back winning constantly and out of turn. Go figure. I, as I often quote, never ever call a fanciers birds I've tried. Indeed had some great ones too. A fellow fed fancier wins well and is often top section and high up in a national organisation. Has open loft and literally just sends to the races... He will tell one and all if asked what he expects back first or so saying 'To be honest, I haven't the slightest idea. I never do'! Sales his birds well all over. Flies about the same system I did in later years. Deep litter and open hole. He bred and gave me about 16 youngsters. I left as norm as y/b's to just peck about. As yearling the first time in basket mine went 150 -200 miles… I was nigh always to 6 and never ever outside top ten. I did the same with yours's John, and they did well. He asked me, though to treat his as he would, well trained. So of course I did! Never did any good for me. After three seasons I only had one. I believe if a bad pigeon can be improved by say 15% so can a good one, or an exceptional one. So I firmly believe that a loft needs birds of such high calibre and then get them to like and fly to your system. Also, obviously, I believe that it is the system that dictates what distance they will excel at. J.M.O. I also believe the pigeons one brings in is only as good as the fancier is honest... and one you have a good and honest repour with.

I'm keeping good John thanks for asking.

Its good to see you back posting John. Would like to see more of your posting mate.

When I was a lad... even middle aged, if the temperature got as high as "20 degree's it was on the BBC news. In the papers and a media discussion for a good time. Now about 32 degrees, are we saying that that doesn't won't affect the pigeons? Indeed doesn't point to have a agenda for later y/b races! Indeed all races. Quite easily done, without losing any races.

'... Members are reminded that YB's should not be marked with personal details of fancier in accordance with SNFC Rule 22 - Club or Federation details are acceptable but birds with personal identification will not be allowed to compete...'. So 'Cook slowly over gas' should be stamped

I remember once, when sending to a race at club, ONE of my birds hadn't been wing stamped. All the other had. All birds were checked the first races etc. when rubbering. I had a choice, take the bird home or get it stamped there and then via the Sec number. I agreed. It was stamped and no more said. Took me own wing stamp next few times just in case. But was never needed.

sadly it will be just the same 'Down at the Club' this seasons end throughout to next start of racing … Well for those moaners and whingers that won't, per normal, be attending any meetings .. wouldn't discuss any way, let alone vote if they did … except for bigger pay outs! What a sad lot most fanciers are eh! The theme is 'I moan, so YOU do it'!

Now that is rather silly. No rings not able to race. Must have Registered ring to me. Rubber rings cost nothing. As for steal... Got £1 30 at time, and just to think some have over 100 youngsters bred. Blimey that would mean years of collecting. Gosh the rings would be antiquated by them … 'THE finish of the sport … taking to long to collect rings from Strays'! :emoticon-0136-giggle:

Yeah Right! Typical! Whilst you sit on your hands and moan and whinge eh! Others, any one should do... but NOT you eh! You epitomise the very essence of what is wrong with the fanciers in this so-called sport. Sorry if truth riles! Agree Fifer … if they knew.

All aboard the 'Train of Betterment'! The 'Road of enlightenment'. This trains' route doesn't go to a destination of a return, – sadly. – It just goes in a circle, where one can get on or get off as and when they like. Mind, most sit comfortably in a beautiful air-conditioned compartment reading what other moans about lol. Still... First stop: Buy culls that breed culls galore and feed the B.O.P. Helps to adjust lost numbers. Second stop: Breed as early as possible... this means o can keep up with anyone who wants to 'Steal a March'! Oh sorry, most do that anyway.†3rd Stop: Mate same to same as before – saves hassle in the loft, Good idea lol. 4th Stop: Mate to family members and destroy their' homing ability. - Mind that doesn't matter as many more can be bred! 5th Stop: Hammer the birds up to the road. Get them fit … fit to drop. Mind they love seeing the hawks chasing them. They can't wait for the next training toss. 6th Stop: Start training and racings as soon as possible … never mind the seven weeks only (Tops) for super form. 7th Stop: Remember when a bird comes home tired and lethargic ( Full of Toxins) get it up to the road! Remember IF others can do it, so should mine. Sth Stop: Get the Longest race as near as the 22nd of June! The hottest time and you get a needless 15 – 20 minutes even of daylight; Pss don't tell others as they will realise that we are MAD! 8th Stop: Pay no attention to the hard race last week … you have them to race! 9th Stop: Prepare the youngster well to get lost! 10th Stop: only ever agree change is needed … However, never let it happen! Now seasons end, time for bragging rights. However, don't bother to go club meeting or feel that the Lard Lord deserves a little support for letting you use his amenities for FREE! Time to call all the others that won't, though you would. Yeah right! Put proposals in for better payouts... then attend the A.G.M. To vote ON THAT!

Gosh! on the tin it says 'Truth and realism'! Must be good rat poison eh! As the man say 'If its hocKs that is the problem then every one shoud get together and bread a cople of birds with no rings and can send them to the race ponts. And let them go befor we let out the race teams and shoud clear the road for the race if the hocks tace the un rung ones I thing it might be easer to do that than change race ponts ever year and lose as much birds ...'! Agree - like the vast majority of fanciers will. This song been sung for many seasons … But 99.5% of fanciers want others to do it … or get a wealthy knight in shiny white armour to ride to our rescue lol.

Well could have been. Warm and clear sky. Maybe a week a next Sat should be the start of the y/b programme.

I agree whole heartedly. It is shameful. Especially when BBC2 moves to be completely a Scottish Channel. I often feel annoyed when us in England can see the whole of Wales or Irelands game … yet have only 'Highlights later at night … Mind I understand that. It's because very few would bother to watch at night if England weren't playing. Let's face English games against any other opponent, especially from the U.k. are treated like 'Cup Finals',

Over 3000 replies! Does that mean there's hope? or will 'Down at the club' remain the same? the same?

Both good realistic replies.

Very true nigh everywhere now I fear. Mind Fanciers have murder the pigeons 'Homing Instincts. Indeed 99% of all and ant discrepancies' can be laid at our door!

Well, many fanciers feel that if it drops into another loft - in the main - it isn't worth paying to have back. A big reason, I believe, why many are not reported, and a reason to the question often asked 'Where do they all go'? Loft hopping we call it! I once had a cracking looking yearling — top-notch in that aspect. It got reported from near its lib site in Pontefract. Then regularly. Three weeks later a phone call saying it was in their loft … could they have it? I said Yep, but don't transfer for a few weeks... Anyway, it kept heading towards Scotland - must be the better feed lol - got reported b4 times in one season. I told them all the same...the fact. Last time a fancier said 'Can I have it and just breed from it'! 'Yes' says I 'It will save me wasting money feeding it'. Should have known. It came from a long line of 'Pedigree incest birds. No homing ability!

the weather! Would be ample time to start y/b's today. But another 2-4 weeks would be even better.

Well September often has 'Indian Summers. October has plenty o warmth and sunlight. Would mean , I suggest, a latter breeding season and starting of Old bird season WHICH would be fantastic in so many ways for our beloved birds. April starting to breed would give us at least 2 rounds or more. Widower …. Well they used to do One round and a later, after, season any way, so no change there. That would also mean a later round to complement any losses and a great team of 18 month olds in their prime for very good results. ( No need to train either. Well the fact is there is no need to train any way … just that too many fear another loft that does could steal a march.

Now a very actual happening. A 'Glib tongue Leader' after a couple of years trying, formed a South Road Club. It became popular with many flying both ways for a start. To test the water, to see how it went etc. They joined a federation etc. However, they felt that it wasn't in their best interests and started to form their Federation. There were a few fanciers from another area that showed interest in making the fed bigger etc. There were meetings etc. and it was agreed that they could join under a few proviso's - none set in stane or enforceable of course. But the extra birdage -MONEY!- was tempting! So merrily they set out with high hopes and dreams of glory. Many more from that area joined too. Now one fancier alone, a millionaire sent over a 100 every race! Indeed that area sent 3-4 times as many birds. Further, it meant that the planning was, well merely stupid, and the greed and forethought were awash. From the Race points in Devon / Cornwall, for example, they flew in a nigh straight line to Bedford / Luton etc. Whereas that meant they birds had to dog leg. They were resulting in the birds being at least 30 minutes behind EVERY week. Let me say I first started up on my own in 1984, having moved to a new location. I was at the tail end of the first turning South but I concentrated on the north rd for many reasons that I have often spouted before … and may well do again lol. Well thinking caps were put on. So the main instigator form three of us to ee what we could do, if anything. Long story short, our club resigned and went alone. Overseas birds went in the nationals per usual. We decided on going to Fareham each week! We, for two seasons, tried to get other clubs to join us … all to no avail. Our racing was far cheaper... times a lot better and a better percentage of birds making it back every week. Indeed at season's end, we were surprised how few the losses were. Then we started showing up in the nationals! Yes, many said they would join in sending to the same site every week ... Boring, and that was, to a certain extent, very true! But now we were high up in National section, eventually winning some!- I had 11 different National winners which I flew with every week. So many other clubs joined. We became pretty strong and had, in reality, a new federation of the old members! So change happens. It just takes the first step. Yes, a walk of a thousand miles takes just one step to start. Now, regardless of the pro and cons, I'd state that it's great to have variety. But to be honest, our birds got to never circle from Fareham but headed straight home. So I believe, that if I were still in the game, I would have a selection of birds just for the Nationals, where they would only ever be sent to not every week but saved to stay fresh, to that race point. Others for more enjoyment as the club wanted. Indeed I believe two races every week — one to Fareham and the other where ever. So those that sit on the voting hands, most watching television at home, should get off their backsides and meet up NOW regularly and discuss ways and means to improve the sport, the losses and above all THE welfare of the pigeons that they spout they love!

The first scenario of truth! I'd wager that if the club / fancier had a choice each race day of entering two races from decent lib site, one the club's schedule. The other a private sponsored organisation that had the 'Go ahead' from the governing bodies. It would cause a few ripples. If nothing to gain, that private organisation, though with a far better program. More suitable for most fanciers, and especially for the bird's line of flight, it would cause a ripples only. Be hard, indeed very hard to get it into a second, let alone a third season! Cost of birds sent roughly the same! Maybe some would join and send just a few birds to garner a little merit if possible. However, I'd wager, the sayings at club levels would be the same. Most have discussed it amongst themselves, and hardly any would turn up to vote. 'The glib tongue holding sway and having their' way ... for them ALL! ... 'Weer, stay as we are.'. … 'Better the devil' … 'Yeah, and if that packs up! Seen many such things fold' (P.s. They haven't, but it lends weight(. Etc. However, if said organisation offered just £100 divided for the first three placings to compete in, then we ALL know which one would soon be better attended. Even at 20p a bird extra! Further, if at season's end they could vote, for only one, then we ALL know which one programme would be chosen! Yes, and nigh ALL the club members would be turning out in droves to vote! Gosh, never mind the 'Ripples' there would be rumblings! Yes, every fancier able would be attending to HAVE their say and VOTE for it!¬ No two ways about that! Moreover, stuff the past and it would be 'Vote for 'The future of our sport' etc. and other ramblings to ... To get their' way

So we are all down at the club. Must be paid out time eh! Some, no most, member are moaning, per usual regards the losses of several youngsters. Steve states 'I had enough old bird losses to contend with, let alone these losses now! I bred 75 youngsters, and I am down to just over 20'! 'Yeah, Steve' says Dave 'I know how you feel... I've lost over 40 youngsters already too. Can't see the sport carrying on much longer at this rate'. 'It isn't just the hawks; we haven't been having the best of good racing weather either'. Remarks Tommy. 'Time something was done' Paul chirps in 'but what'? 'Well' injects the Secretary 'I hear banter it is the same nationwide nigh, so what's the answer'! 'Ent one' says the pessimistic Gordon 'things go from bad to worse. It will do the same every year, well getting worse'! Shaun, the bearded, nicknamed the Professor holds his hand up and shrugs his shoulders ' I think, as I've so often said, it is time we fanciers stood up and got counted. We have the likes of you whinging and moaning and doing nothing but sit on your hands. Indeed you never even attend, or vote, Unless, that is, to have higher payouts'! Yes, many just sup a beer. Though many also don't even go to the bar, except when passing to go to the lou. Buy a drink … Sorry, I'm driving! Never hear of soft drinks! Hey! How about bunging a couple of quid behind the bar! Mind that would make them stay outside completely I guess.No, but quick to spout for bigger winnings etc. Give a couple of youngster to the club or fed! Nah! Shaun is not the most popular of members … speaks the truth too often, I guess, and most tend to stay well clear of. 'So what do you suggest the know all' spouts an irritated Colin 'Be pleased to hear from you the know all'! Shaun smiles – or was it a smirk? 'Well,' he drawls ' many are of the idea of later breeding — some for different routes, or changing the liberation sites regularly for example. Star racing later and have just 6 r- 8 young bird races, starting last week in August! Well worth a try, and certainly wouldn't be any worse! A discussion evolves .. all to no avail. Humans are creatures of habits. Get comfortable with practices/habits – regardless of costs or improvement. Yes, they hate change … Many idle thinkers spout idle idiocies 'Yeah, change for change sake – meaning ' I don't care, I doing the same as I always do, always have done'! Plonker. 'Yeah Colin, there may be much merit in what you say/propose'. Says Steve. So would you, will you vote for it Steve'? 'Weer, you know I would, yeah, … however, it's the others, and they won't, you know that'! All say the same. I' would, but it's the others. The time they all woke up and realised that you ARE THE OTHERS! - then silly examples spouted as such, same as past few stupid seasons. Does one believe that the Fed, let alone the National conveyers would change! Yeah. They'd rather sit in empty wagon eh! Of course the will, they are in it for the money and the proviso that the dates they propose mean no birdcage going would have them rallying around the tables. If clubs sat up and stated they were going to make changes, then the Fed committee would have to oblige or risk being replaced … they would hate the thought, let alone happening. If he that 'Tickles the ears and gains followers lost a few slaps on the back and were threatened to be an empty seat, he is only too pleased and quick to make it work! However, you know, next season, and the last few seasons this so-called sport endures, it will be the same. So the old barb of 'Weer, I'll be gone by then, so I don't care. What of the newcomers and their' enjoying the sport, we are supposed to be leaving them? Nah, not enough interest for that, so I'll breed a lot more and feed the B.O.P. I guess.

I do believe that a different lib site every other week - or weekly, would help a lot. The Percy etc. sit and wait at these Lib sites. We had many write ups in the B/W about how bad it had got there! Our club and fed debated it! Result… 'Carry on, e only go there 2 -3 times a year'! Then the lame excuse 'Same where ever you lib'! Also 'Well PERCY will just wait up the road' etc. Meaning … 'We don't care'! Further, very sadly SO, it speaks volumes about just how much too many fanciers ACTUALLY care about the welfare of their' BELOVED(SAD LOL) BIRDS AND THE TRUE EXTENT OF LOVE warranted!! Change here has to start on sites and then at club level; We have to make a voice heard on our serious intent and change the wishy-washy cod's wallop put out as too often! Already history has shown it's been and IS a selfish cause in not changing! P.s. there are also very many other facets besides the B.O.P problem. None which the fancier han'ts in the slightest interest/intent to change!

And the soothsayers says it will be just as it is next season as the last … and times before. Sorry!

Sadly common sense has never took hold in this so - called sport. Nor has being fain to the birds we supposedly love.