walter the problem with pigeon men is APATHY,and also an unwillingness to change or adapt,most fanciers are just not that interested, :cry-blow:personally we first started getting raptor problems in 1980 and this over the years has worsened dramatically,we do what we can .also your point Walter about younger men in the m/ment side,i myself was on the SHU council for a number of years and this latterly consisted of meetings and arguments and reading of lawyers letters,giving up time midweek and on a sunday to listen to people being some times being nasty was not for me!!!!! at the time i was 39 years old which is young imo in pigeon fanciers terms,so after being v/p of fed and on shu council and also as active in the club as was possible i have now gone full circle and help when i can whenever help is required.i do still as always enjoy the doos but unsure of the future,wish i could be more positive.john :(