must agree with tony when i started out for real in my eary twenties i had birds from some of the best fanciers in the country yes i got a wee turn now and then but nothing like i should have with the birds i had why because i did not put the work and time into them that i now know has to be done with any pigeons to be consistent and win at the highest level you must do your bit first before you blame the pigeons getting good birds dry loft with plenty of air training feeding health and incentive is all down to the fancier only when i can say ive done all this can i point the finger at the pigeon imo