Paramyxo Virus

[walterboswell59]

ok guys for the benifit of the fanciers who want to know this is what happened and how i treated my birds first of all how did i get it well there are a few ways i could have got it streeters and wood pigeons in my garden everyday had lots of fanciers visit my lofts this year brought some new birds in also so a few ways i could have got it but i think i got it from a bird that had went down in a yb race and turned up 3 or 4 weeks later the birdsin the section had been raced and were jagged on the 14th of march to these birds i added 16 latebreds that had been well trained making 50 yearlings for next season in the section next door i had 20 younger latebreds just out the stock loft and a dozen just hatched the section with the 50 we will call sect one was only getting out once or twiced a week as i wanted to give the 20 wee ones priority and out as much as pos so i could get them flying a few hours a day then get them trained on sunday the guy who cleans my loft for me told me a mealy was making a funny noise i went and picked out the bird and it was wheezing realy bad respitory i thought but like no respitory id seen before it was as if the birds lungs were water logged is the only way i can explain it anyway i gave the bird some antibiotic and put it in a basket and went back to the section to check the rest and they were all ok only then did i notice i still had 50 in the section and one in the basket i went back to the basket and checked the ring no against my book and found this bird had went down in a race 3 weeks before and must have turned up on the day the birds in that section were out any other section i would have noticed it right away sods law anyway next morning i looked in the basket and the bird had tortilus its head was upside down it was put down right away oh s t i thought there is 16 latebreds in that same section that have not been vaccinated yet as i was waiting to do do them and my m8 jims alltogether with my younger ones and had got the vaccine to do them so i jagged all my latebreds and jims the same day and ordered more vaccine to do the rest just incase old birds stock birds and i would do the yb jagged in march again i thought wont do any harm next day went to the loft with the 50 the floor was swiming the birds dropings were squirting from them at such force it was hitting the wall on the other side of the 8foot section and every bird in the section was the same i was horrified what the f k is this must be some kind of bacterial infection all i had was amoxycillin so i put that in the drinker right away the latebreds in the next section were looking a bit sorry for themselves but id seen that before just after id jagged them a few days and they will be ok but what was wrong with the 50 i did not have a clue cleaned the section and scrubbed the floor with jeyes fluid two hours later it was swiming again cleaned it all again they had drunk the 5 pint drinker dry filled it again more amoxycillin they could not get enough water which was making the droppings worse but i did not want them to dehydrate and at least there getting the antibiotic into them next morning i went to the section 4 birds with there heads up there ass f k i thought can it get any worse thats paramyxo they have went back to my loft records and checked the 4 with tortilis plus the bird that was away three weeks were all vaccinated on the 14 of march how can they have paramyxo as well like ive said before i had full blown paramyxo in 1981 but there was no wet dropings i was dealing with more than para maybe two or three diff things or paramyxo has mutated to be even worse i went back to my bin and took out the first bird and cut it open i then killed a 2year old that was to be used as hawk bait but perfectly healthy and cut it open i could see that the sick birds lungs were clogged with mucus and the liver had like wee cysts on it and much pailer in coulor i then cut open the 4 with tortilis and they were the same these are also symtoms of paratyphoid i found out got on the web to merca systom and ordered enroflox its for paratyphoid respitory cocci and a good broadspectrum antibiotic meanwhile i added 3 flagyl tablets melted in warm water and mixed it in with the amoxycillin as by now there imune systom was being attacked by everything going trying to keep the floor dry and clean was driving me nuts till i remembered i had a big bag of garden lime in my shed that was a big help cleaned it again then scattered hand fulls of lime on the floor and under the perches which helped keep the floor dry next day another few with the necks twisting binned them again they had been jagged in march the unvaccinated latebreds i thought would have been first to take it i thought but none showed any paramyxo signs but they al had the projectile dropings the new vaccine came and i done all the old birds and stock birds the 20 lb just jagged were still looking a bit down and the dropings were loose but nothing like the birds next door im now thinking it was a mistake to have jagged them at this time as they were perfect untill i jagged them maybe they would have done better if i had not vaccinated them till the first lot were better all this time the birds were on lockdown of course the old birds and stock birds i just gave my own potassium mix in the water everyday along with another jag and no old birds have been infected when i could see the birds were over it i would then get defra in to tell me they all clear as i did not need them to tell me i had it i already knew that and had made sure no one elses birds were in any danger if it had happened during racing season id have informed them myself but as i said some nice person on here thought they should do it for me and they called me to say they would be coming out to see me but by that time id been giving them the enroflox for a week and the first lot were much better no more neck twisting and almost all there dropings had dried up and had been putting natural yougurt on there grain but the 20 next door that i had just jagged were going down hill fast ill let you know how they got on and what defra said tomorrow night guys my eyes are getting sore

[bigjamie]

it must be driving you mad walter atb with the other birds

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Good of you to be open about this Walter. I know you said you would let us know how you dealt with it, but that was before the notification was sent to Defra. Wouldn't wish this sort of thing on my worst enemy. Glad you got it sorted.

[paddymac]

Interesting reading and insight Walter, thankyou for being so open about the problem and your treatment of the affected birds

[MIK]

Thx for sharing Walter :emoticon-0137-clapping:

[geordie1234]

Thanks for sharing Walter

[andy]

Walter you said the liver had cysts on it, this would eventually crystallise as the birds get worse and die.I was under the impression this is definately paratyphoid and not paramyxo as a vet told me this some 25 years ago?

[walterboswell59]

Walter you said the liver had cysts on it, this would eventually crystallise as the birds get worse and die.I was under the impression this is definately paratyphoid and not paramyxo as a vet told me this some 25 years ago?

your bang on andy i think i had both m8 and defra confirmed paramyxo after swabing but only in one section

[andy]

Good luck with your outcome m8

[kirky]

when my birds had this in the 80s DEFRA told me the ones that survived would be carriers of pmv the following year i had to cull them all as the ybs off them all died in the nests yet the obs looked in perfect condition,

[walterboswell59]

ok guys let me bring you up to date of where i am now as i said the birds in section one where it all started were now almost back to normal i say almost because there was still 2or three with the dropings a bit loose but nothing like it was not water just loose this was about 2 and a half weeks after it started and recond another 5 or 6 days all would be over it but the section next door with the 20 latebreds i had just jagged were getting worse everyday after 5 days the squirting dropings started so i put them on the enroflox day 7 two birds with necks twisting disposed of them next morning another 4 and the next day another 3 all were put down and burned next morning defra turns up and asked to see the birds they said they were glad to see i had buckets of virkon s for dipping my shoes as i went from loft to loft section to section all so a few changes of loft coat which i washed in vircon s to said i had done everything correct the birds being locked up to soon as i seen there was a problem they asked if all the birds had been jagged all but the latebreds i said they were due to be done in the next week or so as some were to young asked if i had records of vacination and batch numbers and dates yes i said even had the empty bottle the they were jagged with and the new bottle id just done the old birds again with just to be on the safe side asked me what i had in the drinkers in the old bird and stock bird lofts told them it was a pottasium herbal mix i make myself have any of the old birds shown any symtoms no i said not one where and how did it start told him about the bird being away 3 weeks and showing the first symtoms took him to the the 1st section were it started they look ok he said there much better now the were very sick birds two weeks ago big difference in them now i think another week and they will be 100 percent look fine to me he said he picked 3 birds to swab 3 that looked ok to me and said so you pick out 2 you think are not 100 percent he said i picked 2 that still had loose dropings and he swab them he then went and picked out some old birds and stock birds and swabbed them there ok i said still need to swab them that will do it he said i said i like him to take swabs from the latebreds in the middle section as they were the worse i picked them out and he swabbed them ok thats it he said if its positive we will let you know in a few days negative could take upto two weeks just keep doing what your doing and keep them locked up till you get the result will they tell me what it is if its not paramyxo i asked because i think there is something else involved here what makes you think that he said ive had it full blown twiced and the dropings were not like that and some of the birds that have it have been vaccinated so how can they have it is the vaccine not working might have been a bad batch it happens or birds not jagged correctly it was you guys that taught me how to vaccinate ive done thousands of birds and never had vaccinated birds get it where does this leave me unlucky was his reply and away he went 4 days later they phoned to tell me the 2 birds i picked from section one where it started were positive the 3 he picked were negative the old birds and stock birds were negative as i thought and the latebreds in the middle that they were not even going to check were positive so can i let the old birds out then if there negative yes there in a different loft but keep the youngbirds locked up till you think they are over it then let us know by letter when you think there clear will you come back and check them again to make sure there clear sometimes we do sometimes we dont which i thought strange they would just take your word for it but thats what he said anyway ive kept the youngbirds on the enroflox and pretty sure by doing this ive saved alot of birds lives as i think they had both paramyxo and paratyphoid from 60 odd yb i disposed of 20 that were twisting there necks and struggling to eat and did not have much faith in them for racing all birds now looking fine so just have to see how the latebreds and yearlings do next year thats it guys hope it gives you a wee insight what to expect its been a hard slog and would not wish it on anyone from when they first take it till there 100 per cent over it takes 4 weeks id say the birds that had taken it first could win a show there condition is that good the younger ones in the middle are about a week behind the first lot and i now think they maybe were fighting it and doing ok but jagging them was just to much for there imunne systom to handle and they had worse than the first lot so another wee lesson if you suspect they might have it even if they look ok dont jag them till you think your loft is clear as if they have a wee touch of it and you jag them it makes it 10 times worse so in future before vaccinating my birds i will give them a week or 10 days on antibiotics make sure there is nothing working on them i cant see and will jag them twiced a year winter and just a month before racing starts and see how that goes by antibiotic i mean paratyphoid treatment before i jag thought about jagging them for paratyphoid till i found out the side effects are frightning and it can kill them so ill stick with the enroflox hope this helps someone as its a frightning thing and heart breaking killing birds you sat all winter planning there breeding but most of your birds will come through it will they race i dont know only time will tell might be a poor season for me next year but somehow i dont think so ill still be trying lol

Edited October 17, 2014 by walterboswell59

[walterboswell59]

when my birds had this in the 80s DEFRA told me the ones that survived would be carriers of pmv the following year i had to cull them all as the ybs off them all died in the nests yet the obs looked in perfect condition,

kirky they told me the ones that came through it would be imuned go figure makes you wonder if they know what there doing m8

[just ask me]

walter the best thing you done was vaccinated them all if birds get sick after the vaccine its useally a sign there was a problem before the vaccine was given and not that the vaccine gave them something also the vaccine acts as a immune booster so if it takes a while to travel from one loft to another there system is on high alert also on vaccinating birds twice ive been doing youngbirds twice for years without any ill effect what so ever and i jag on weaning as you say yourself its important to them before they have any illness then again 3 to 4 weeks after this is common practice now across most of mainland Europe

[walterboswell59]

walter the best thing you done was vaccinated them all if birds get sick after the vaccine its useally a sign there was a problem before the vaccine was given and not that the vaccine gave them something also the vaccine acts as a immune booster so if it takes a while to travel from one loft to another there system is on high alert also on vaccinating birds twice ive been doing youngbirds twice for years without any ill effect what so ever and i jag on weaning as you say yourself its important to them before they have any illness then again 3 to 4 weeks after this is common practice now across most of mainland Europe

i agreed with you jam but i found the unvaccinated birds were handling it better than the vaccinated ones thats why i thought it maybe better to make sure there is nothing underlying before you vaccinate them m8 as they seemed to be fighting the problem and the vaccination at the sametime and it was just to much for them but always learning jam will not be caught that way again thats for sure

[paddymac]

i agreed with you jam but i found the unvaccinated birds were handling it better than the vaccinated ones thats why i thought it maybe better to make sure there is nothing underlying before you vaccinate them m8 as they seemed to be fighting the problem and the vaccination at the sametime and it was just to much for them but always learning jam will not be caught that way again thats for sure

Neither will a lot of us here that have read your thread Walter, thankyou again for being so open and sharing this experience with us on this forum :emoticon-0137-clapping:

[Guest chad3646]

looking through some of the threads it seems to me, that if you want to be successful you have to pump your pigeons full of this and that

[walterboswell59]

Neither will a lot of us here that have read your thread Walter, thankyou again for being so open and sharing this experience with us on this forum :emoticon-0137-clapping:

thanks pat talking about it is the only way we will learn from it pal hiding it helps nothing and no one

 

looking through some of the threads it seems to me, that if you want to be successful you have to pump your pigeons full of this and that

changed days from tic beans and lindseed jimmy and not for the better imo

[Guest chad3646]

thanks pat talking about it is the only way we will learn from it pal hiding it helps nothing and no one

 

 

changed days from tic beans and lindseed jimmy and not for the better imo

 

 

correct there walter to many products coming on the market and people dying to try them , my brother being one of them ,hence he f...ed a good going system up that we had

[walterboswell59]

correct there walter to many products coming on the market and people dying to try them , my brother being one of them ,hence he f...ed a good going system up that we had

its the old saying jimmy if its not broke dont fix it

[scott mca]

What a time you've had of it Walter but as usual as open and honest as the day is long mate. I'm sure you'll have a great season next year all the very best mate.

[TheHigg]

What a time you've had of it Walter but as usual as open and honest as the day is long mate. I'm sure you'll have a great season next year all the very best mate.

of course he will scott you cant keep a good man down [thanks for the insight walter]

[scott mca]

of course he will scott you cant keep a good man down [thanks for the insight walter]

 

 

Your right there Joe top class fancier with top class pigeons mate