Time To Change

[paullock]

Spot on Paul unless you have a family member who's been in the sport who can give u the education needed to compete its hopeless as pigeon fanciers are like the mafia and won't pass on any knowledge . So uz novices are fighting a losing battle from the off .

 

Wow really thought I was on my own, must be a common issue then.

 

Paul.

[walterboswell59]

im afraid thats the way it has allways been guys the guys that know dont want you to know and the guy in the pub that wants to tell you everything has f k all worth telling lol

[andy Burgess]

im afraid thats the way it has allways been guys the guys that know dont want you to know and the guy in the pub that wants to tell you everything has f k all worth telling lol

made me laugh , yet is so very true , only the genuine folk will help you out , unfortunately they are few and far between

[walterboswell59]

its true andy can remember as a young man trying to get info from john feenie it was like pulling teeth but the guy who won a race every ten year wants to tell you how it should be done even though your beating him most weeks lots of guys can talk a good pigeon not many can fly one imo

[andy Burgess]

its true andy can remember as a young man trying to get info from john feenie it was like pulling teeth but the guy who won a race every ten year wants to tell you how it should be done even though your beating him most weeks lots of guys can talk a good pigeon not many can fly one imo

have trod the road of asking for help many times Walter , sometimes in desperation , like you say , its often those who know less than yourself that are willing to give ??

[philg50]

its true andy can remember as a young man trying to get info from john feenie it was like pulling teeth but the guy who won a race every ten year wants to tell you how it should be done even though your beating him most weeks lots of guys can talk a good pigeon not many can fly one imo

This is exactly what is wrong with this sport at club level the so called top men are to ready to critisise the guy you lads say knows f--all and flys worse he probably has read a lot, has terrific knowledge of various systems just because he has tried to improve his positions in the races he is competing in ,it is just that it hasnt worked out for them ,but if it wasnt for them the good flyers would have little honour.And when i think of it at least we are willing to talk and to try and help and yes thats me included the useless guys that want to help even though we cant fly a kite.

[grdkeith]

Thats right blame the pensioners ( Numpty ) We get the blame for everything else, even for living too long If it wasnt for the old brigade you would not be flying birds ??????

 

 

you still alive :egyptian:

[Guest stb-]

you still alive :egyptian:

dont touch any buttons on the L S M :emoticon-0140-rofl:

[paullock]

made me laugh , yet is so very true , only the genuine folk will help you out , unfortunately they are few and far between

 

Made me chuckle too. So true.

[paullock]

have trod the road of asking for help many times Walter , sometimes in desperation , like you say , its often those who know less than yourself that are willing to give ??

 

Your post is me all over, hope I can remain sain and carry on racing, finding myself locking at other hobbys though, love my birds though I would never get rid of them, even flying them at home and training them would be enough for me, I thing most od the neighbours would be gutted if I gave it up too as they and ther kids like to watch them in the summer months.

 

Paul.

[andy Burgess]

Your post is me all over, hope I can remain sain and carry on racing, finding myself locking at other hobbys though, love my birds though I would never get rid of them, even flying them at home and training them would be enough for me, I thing most od the neighbours would be gutted if I gave it up too as they and ther kids like to watch them in the summer months.

 

Paul.

it doesn't happen overnight Paul , well not for most .I have had some good information over the past few years ,yet found that by questioning myself and what I was doing ,rather than question other folk ,I made a little progress up the result sheet

[Tony C]

When I first started racing I asked old timers for advice but did I listen to them...........no of course not! Just give them plain water they said, plain water I thought........... they're living in the past...........there's all these scientifically made additives I can give them these days. Many years later and many £'s spent I now give them plain water 6 out of 7 days.

 

What I'm saying is I'd bet a £ to a pinch of salt novices are given sound advise by old'uns but they find it contrary to what modern books & videos tell them to do, the novice go along with the so called modern methods............ until one day the penny drops!

[Guest Owen]

Well lads as I see it, either things change or the sport will die. Some of the attitudes are really terrible especially amongst the older members. Whether it is popular to say it or not we have to critically examine the reasons why so many pigeons get lost every year. There are plenty of theories and opinions but there is little done to find out what is really happening. I know that people lie about their returns all the time. According to some they have very few loses yet as the season progresses their entries continually go down. Then there is the nonsense that the result was recorded as so and so velocity when in fact the bulk of the birds were either absent on the night or else miles behind the early birds. When ever I have discussed this type of thing with fellow Fanciers or read the opinions expressed in these forums no-one really wants to change anything. Probably one of the worst attitudes that I hear is the one where new starters or people struggling to win something tell me that no-one will tell them anything and refuse to help them with a bit of advice. I will try to answer any question I can as truthfully as I can and because of this I have been criticised on numerous occasions. Perhaps the penny has not dropped yet and maybe never will but unless the problem of losses is solved people will get fed up and leave the sport. The sad thing is that it is the less able Fanciers that bear the brunt of these problems and it is like a downward spiral for them. They don't know how to fly their birds, they lose their pigeons, they spend more money buying birds, they breed more youngsters, they still lose birds. At the end of it all they are expected to pay their money which is mopped up by the same few and finally they get fed up and walk. I believe that pigeon racing could be very popular if it was managed by people with imagination who should be left to get on with the job and paid for their services. One of the worst cases I have heard of recently was the rows about a race programme in one of the Federations. Everybody knows that the race programme has to be finalised every year and it is totally predictable. Yet after the officers of this particular Federation had constructed a spread sheet and worked out the agreed programme by the most democratic way possible a minority wanted to have it rejected so that they would have more time to submit one. After a lot of disruption and shouting these few people gave up their objections but not before they had made things very unpleasant for everybody when there was no need to do so. I reckon that when things like that continually go on there are a lot people who will not offer their opinion and many do not want to attend the meetings because these bullying tactics of the few. Obviously we all lose then because many of those who are turned off could help us all by offering useful ideas.

[harry h]

When I first started racing I asked old timers for advice but did I listen to them...........no of course not! Just give them plain water they said, plain water I thought........... they're living in the past...........there's all these scientifically made additives I can give them these days. Many years later and many £'s spent I now give them plain water 6 out of 7 days.

 

What I'm saying is I'd bet a £ to a pinch of salt novices are given sound advise by old'uns but they find it contrary to what modern books & videos tell them to do, the novice go along with the so called modern methods............ until one day the penny drops!

 

 

It's not the penny that drops,it's the ££££££££'s that drop out your wallet Tony.

[paullock]

Well lads as I see it, either things change or the sport will die. Some of the attitudes are really terrible especially amongst the older members. Whether it is popular to say it or not we have to critically examine the reasons why so many pigeons get lost every year. There are plenty of theories and opinions but there is little done to find out what is really happening. I know that people lie about their returns all the time. According to some they have very few loses yet as the season progresses their entries continually go down. Then there is the nonsense that the result was recorded as so and so velocity when in fact the bulk of the birds were either absent on the night or else miles behind the early birds. When ever I have discussed this type of thing with fellow Fanciers or read the opinions expressed in these forums no-one really wants to change anything. Probably one of the worst attitudes that I hear is the one where new starters or people struggling to win something tell me that no-one will tell them anything and refuse to help them with a bit of advice. I will try to answer any question I can as truthfully as I can and because of this I have been criticised on numerous occasions. Perhaps the penny has not dropped yet and maybe never will but unless the problem of losses is solved people will get fed up and leave the sport. The sad thing is that it is the less able Fanciers that bear the brunt of these problems and it is like a downward spiral for them. They don't know how to fly their birds, they lose their pigeons, they spend more money buying birds, they breed more youngsters, they still lose birds. At the end of it all they are expected to pay their money which is mopped up by the same few and finally they get fed up and walk. I believe that pigeon racing could be very popular if it was managed by people with imagination who should be left to get on with the job and paid for their services. One of the worst cases I have heard of recently was the rows about a race programme in one of the Federations. Everybody knows that the race programme has to be finalised every year and it is totally predictable. Yet after the officers of this particular Federation had constructed a spread sheet and worked out the agreed programme by the most democratic way possible a minority wanted to have it rejected so that they would have more time to submit one. After a lot of disruption and shouting these few people gave up their objections but not before they had made things very unpleasant for everybody when there was no need to do so. I reckon that when things like that continually go on there are a lot people who will not offer their opinion and many do not want to attend the meetings because these bullying tactics of the few. Obviously we all lose then because many of those who are turned off could help us all by offering useful ideas.

Great post Owen, very honest.

 

Paul

[Guest Owen]

I have to admit that I am disappointed in the level of interest shown in response to this post. Perhaps we should not be surprised at the lack of interest in moving the sport forward, after all we can see by the lack of attendance at the meetings that people have given up on returning the sport to the vibrant activity it once was.

I am not sure why people will spend large sums of money on food and new birds in a way that adds up to big amounts yet are not prepared to do anything to bring the sport into the modern era. The sad thing is that there are a lot of young people out there who could not only enjoy the sport and the competition but also learn much to help them live a fulfilled life. As for me, I will carry on flying my birds until I either drop off the twig or the competition disappears altogether.

[Walter swanston]

Really excellent post Owen and I can see exactly where you are coming from and I fully agree that pigeon racing must change and evolve off it is to survive and in my own small way in the positions I have held in the fancy I have tried to help the evolution and have always welcomed new ideas and concepts.

However I am afraid I do not recognise the secretive and dog eat dog atmosphere within clubs which you describe.I will very quickly admit to only being an average fancier but I have been a member of my club and federation for coming up on twenty years and during that time I have seldom encountered anything but kindness and advice from my fellow fanciers.I have frequently been advised on feeding,training and pigeon health? Owen I am far to old too see life through rose coloured glasses but in general I think that pigeon men are the salt of the earth, like you I will keep racing pigeons as long as my health and age allows.I do not expect I will win anything significate but I do not care too much as long as I can spend my summers in the company of my fellow fanciers.

[Guest Owen]

Walter

when I referred to the secrecy it was not so much at Club level locally that I was getting at. If anything the people locally are very laid back and some are down right lazy. Most locals do as little as possible and will try to avoid taking an active part in running the Club preferring to leave it to others. I find it quite amusing when selection of officers takes place at the AGM. Most heads drop and people suddenly find the floor very interesting.

Probably because I am very outspoken and the fact that I contribute to the Forums I often get people asking me to help with information or advice. I am often surprised at the fact that many of them say that no-one locally will help them.

I would like to see a situation where everybody knew how to work a system that suites them so that the races would become true tests of the pigeons rather than the clued up Fanciers benefiting from the ignorance of much of the competition. If we could get to a situation like that things like loses would be far better understood and controlled.

[Guest IB]

Really excellent post Owen and I can see exactly where you are coming from and I fully agree that pigeon racing must change and evolve off it is to survive and in my own small way in the positions I have held in the fancy I have tried to help the evolution and have always welcomed new ideas and concepts.

However I am afraid I do not recognise the secretive and dog eat dog atmosphere within clubs which you describe.I will very quickly admit to only being an average fancier but I have been a member of my club and federation for coming up on twenty years and during that time I have seldom encountered anything but kindness and advice from my fellow fanciers.I have frequently been advised on feeding,training and pigeon health? Owen I am far to old too see life through rose coloured glasses but in general I think that pigeon men are the salt of the earth, like you I will keep racing pigeons as long as my health and age allows.I do not expect I will win anything significate but I do not care too much as long as I can spend my summers in the company of my fellow fanciers.

 

Just like to say that I have to agree with you. I came back into the fancy 13 years ago, after 30 years away. I joined my local club and found them very helpful in bringing me up to speed with today's game. I was offered pigeons, I was offered a clock, and the club champion at that time sat me down for an hour and took me through his system of flying pigeons. But as others have said in the thread, in my case anyway it was not that I didn't get offered help, good advice or pigeons from fellow fanciers, it was more whether I chose to act upon that advice, or take up those offers.

 

IMO negativity doesn't help us, but realism does - first and foremost there are more people leaving the fancy than joining. Every club and federation has either static or falling membership. That is until it comes to the point membership falls below the required numbers for it to remain formed or viable. Yet splits still occur, and still remain. Sorting this out is well within our own control and capability.

 

Lets put Stability first. A great man was put to rest yesterday, the icon of our times. He spent nearly 30 years in prison but even before his release was preaching forgiveness and tolerance among those imprisoned towards those who had imprisoned them. He didn't use his freedom to start a Civil War, he used it to bring his country together. So if South Africans can do it, so can we. Lets look first at bringing the sport together. Lets begin our own healing process. Not though continued civil warfare, tit-for-tat, survival of the fittest or dog-eat-dog - but realistically, through agreed mergers, pooled resources and training people to do deliver what the members want, in the way they want it done..

[Guest Owen]

Ian

I am with you all the way. I think that those of us who can help should try to explain what to do the get to the prize table if that is what people want. Sometimes I think that some forget that this is a sport and is meant to be enjoyed so maybe we should take Mandella's approach and actively try to bring peace and tranquillity to those we are in contact with.