Breeding Selection , With Walter Boswell

[andy Burgess]

many of us are right now scratching our heads as "what to pair to what" ?? how do you select a pair for breeding , whats the way to do it to best effect . related birds or un-related , old to young . what do look for in the off-spring ??

[Fly_caster]

many of us are right now scratching our heads as "what to pair to what" ?? how do you select a pair for breeding , whats the way to do it to best effect . related birds or un-related , old to young . what do look for in the off-spring ??

 

 

Great Topic choice, I am really looking forward to some of the information to come up here.

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Guest Owen]

I select my breeders by pairing best to best as my first consideration. Then I will deliberately select unrelated birds so that I will crossbreed. I do not breed from hens that are more that 3 years old and I like to pair young hens to older cocks. The birds that I most value are hens that have won well as youngsters from fathers who have done well at Fed level with siblings that have scored well. I never pair distance to sprint because I don't think it works too well. It is always like to like. I am finding that I still breed birds that are not up to standard but I also breed some really great birds these days. I think that I will need to carry on breeding in this way for a while yet before I will be happy with the percentage of top pigeons is acceptable to me.

[THE FIFER]

yes very interesting, also looking forward to some good reading,

[dwh]

I select my breeders by pairing best to best as my first consideration. Then I will deliberately select unrelated birds so that I will crossbreed. I do not breed from hens that are more that 3 years old and I like to pair young hens to older cocks. The birds that I most value are hens that have won well as youngsters from fathers who have done well at Fed level with siblings that have scored well. I never pair distance to sprint because I don't think it works too well. It is always like to like. I am finding that I still breed birds that are not up to standard but I also breed some really great birds these days. I think that I will need to carry on breeding in this way for a while yet before I will be happy with the percentage of top pigeons is acceptable to me.

 

why do you not use your hens over 3 years old?

it seems you are losing years of good breeding from good hens

:emoticon-0138-thinking: :emoticon-0138-thinking:

[shweet]

why do you not use your hens over 3 years old?

it seems you are losing years of good breeding from good hens

:emoticon-0138-thinking: :emoticon-0138-thinking:

I would agree with that as well

[William Reid]

.

[walterboswell59]

i have been working a system for a few years now andy and i think its the best and fastest route to find your top breeding pairs one of the problems with breeding good birds is you could have a great pair of breeders in your loft and never have them paired together theres to much luck involved in picking the right cock and hen that will click and breed you winners it can take you years to find them when youre only breeding maybe 4 youngsters from them to race so this was my reason to try something that would find the pairs that click and breed winners and i found it starting from scratch first pick out 3 or 4 cocks if they not won anything or your just starting out choose the best bred cocks or cocks whose pairents or grandpairents have won and give these cocks a nest box with plenty of room mine are in single compartments but a good size nest box will do let the cocks claim there box next pick hens the same way as you picked the cocks best bred or closest bred to winners and put them in with the cocks and make sure your hens are not fat or they take ages to lay minds are on 100 percent barley for at least a month and the week be i pair them i even cut the barley back let them rear the first pair and as soon as the hen lays her ist egg of 2nd pair lift it and put it in an old egg box and put a dummy in then lift 2nd egg and put in your egg box mark which pair there from keep the egg box on top of a cuboard at room temp pack the egg box with tissue paper to hold the eggs on there side then just turn the box over every night this stops the yoke sinking to the bottom and sticking to the shell and wipe them once a week with a damp cloth to stop them drying out or a wee fine spray with water you should get 99 to 100 percent hatch up to 6 weeks but a month does me this gives you time get feeders or yearling down to float them under depending on how many birds your working with take 4to8 yb off each pair storing and floating eggs when you have birds to put them under then pick anothere 3 hens and store and float another 4 6 or 8 from the same cock and change the hen again i bred 16 from each cock with four different hens the first year once you get the hang of it you learn how to plan to to have feeders paired ready to float if you think your not going to have feeders ready within six weeks just let the pair rear them till just on hard feeding about 7 8 days then put under a pair that been on eggs 12 days or more and they should take them ok of course all this is a waste of time if you dont train and race the youngsters hard to find out the best youngbird winners or the pair with the most youngbirds left after the yb racing is over the pairs that bred the best or steadyest yb go back together the next year and the cocks that failed are replaced with different cocks and worked the sameway the cocks that failed are kept till there youngsters get to the coast as yearlings then i review them again if still nothing off them showing potential there out for good put on the road or used as feeders when i find a pair that click i will breed 16 to 20 off them every year using the same method its mostly my yearlings i use for rearing the the stock cocks yb as i dont breed from them till they win i now have 16 pair of proven breeders in a very short time that would have taken me 15 years or more to find i also inbreed and line breed back to the best breeders and best winners and thats how i work it andy hope someone finds it helpfull

[andy Burgess]

Think the spider must have got him Andy :emoticon-0136-giggle:

thought you were on the phone to him with a delaying tactic

[walterboswell59]

thought you were on the phone to him with a delaying tactic

nail on the head andy lol

[William Reid]

thought you were on the phone to him with a delaying tactic

.

[buster151]

i have been working a system for a few years now andy and i think its the best and fastest route to find your top breeding pairs one of the problems with breeding good birds is you could have a great pair of breeders in your loft and never have them paired together theres to much luck involved in picking the right cock and hen that will click and breed you winners it can take you years to find them when youre only breeding maybe 4 youngsters from them to race so this was my reason to try something that would find the pairs that click and breed winners and i found it starting from scratch first pick out 3 or 4 cocks if they not won anything or your just starting out choose the best bred cocks or cocks whose pairents or grandpairents have won and give these cocks a nest box with plenty of room mine are in single compartments but a good size nest box will do let the cocks claim there box next pick hens the same way as you picked the cocks best bred or closest bred to winners and put them in with the cocks and make sure your hens are not fat or they take ages to lay minds are on 100 percent barley for at least a month and the week be i pair them i even cut the barley back let them rear the first pair and as soon as the hen lays her ist egg of 2nd pair lift it and put it in an old egg box and put a dummy in then lift 2nd egg and put in your egg box mark which pair there from keep the egg box on top of a cuboard at room temp pack the egg box with tissue paper to hold the eggs on there side then just turn the box over every night this stops the yoke sinking to the bottom and sticking to the shell and wipe them once a week with a damp cloth to stop them drying out or a wee fine spray with water you should get 99 to 100 percent hatch up to 6 weeks but a month does me this gives you time get feeders or yearling down to float them under depending on how many birds your working with take 4to8 yb off each pair storing and floating eggs when you have birds to put them under then pick anothere 3 hens and store and float another 4 6 or 8 from the same cock and change the hen again i bred 16 from each cock with four different hens the first year once you get the hang of it you learn how to plan to to have feeders paired ready to float if you think your not going to have feeders ready within six weeks just let the pair rear them till just on hard feeding about 7 8 days then put under a pair that been on eggs 12 days or more and they should take them ok of course all this is a waste of time if you dont train and race the youngsters hard to find out the best youngbird winners or the pair with the most youngbirds left after the yb racing is over the pairs that bred the best or steadyest yb go back together the next year and the cocks that failed are replaced with different cocks and worked the sameway the cocks that failed are kept till there youngsters get to the coast as yearlings then i review them again if still nothing off them showing potential there out for good put on the road or used as feeders when i find a pair that click i will breed 16 to 20 off them every year using the same method its mostly my yearlings i use for rearing the the stock cocks yb as i dont breed from them till they win i now have 16 pair of proven breeders in a very short time that would have taken me 15 years or more to find i also inbreed and line breed back to the best breeders and best winners and thats how i work it andy hope someone finds it helpfull

great info there Walter thank you for the insight

[MIK]

i have been working a system for a few years now andy and i think its the best and fastest route to find your top breeding pairs one of the problems with breeding good birds is you could have a great pair of breeders in your loft and never have them paired together theres to much luck involved in picking the right cock and hen that will click and breed you winners it can take you years to find them when youre only breeding maybe 4 youngsters from them to race so this was my reason to try something that would find the pairs that click and breed winners and i found it starting from scratch first pick out 3 or 4 cocks if they not won anything or your just starting out choose the best bred cocks or cocks whose pairents or grandpairents have won and give these cocks a nest box with plenty of room mine are in single compartments but a good size nest box will do let the cocks claim there box next pick hens the same way as you picked the cocks best bred or closest bred to winners and put them in with the cocks and make sure your hens are not fat or they take ages to lay minds are on 100 percent barley for at least a month and the week be i pair them i even cut the barley back let them rear the first pair and as soon as the hen lays her ist egg of 2nd pair lift it and put it in an old egg box and put a dummy in then lift 2nd egg and put in your egg box mark which pair there from keep the egg box on top of a cuboard at room temp pack the egg box with tissue paper to hold the eggs on there side then just turn the box over every night this stops the yoke sinking to the bottom and sticking to the shell and wipe them once a week with a damp cloth to stop them drying out or a wee fine spray with water you should get 99 to 100 percent hatch up to 6 weeks but a month does me this gives you time get feeders or yearling down to float them under depending on how many birds your working with take 4to8 yb off each pair storing and floating eggs when you have birds to put them under then pick anothere 3 hens and store and float another 4 6 or 8 from the same cock and change the hen again i bred 16 from each cock with four different hens the first year once you get the hang of it you learn how to plan to to have feeders paired ready to float if you think your not going to have feeders ready within six weeks just let the pair rear them till just on hard feeding about 7 8 days then put under a pair that been on eggs 12 days or more and they should take them ok of course all this is a waste of time if you dont train and race the youngsters hard to find out the best youngbird winners or the pair with the most youngbirds left after the yb racing is over the pairs that bred the best or steadyest yb go back together the next year and the cocks that failed are replaced with different cocks and worked the sameway the cocks that failed are kept till there youngsters get to the coast as yearlings then i review them again if still nothing off them showing potential there out for good put on the road or used as feeders when i find a pair that click i will breed 16 to 20 off them every year using the same method its mostly my yearlings i use for rearing the the stock cocks yb as i dont breed from them till they win i now have 16 pair of proven breeders in a very short time that would have taken me 15 years or more to find i also inbreed and line breed back to the best breeders and best winners and thats how i work it andy hope someone finds it helpfull

 

very good info Walter.. ty

[andy Burgess]

i have been working a system for a few years now andy and i think its the best and fastest route to find your top breeding pairs one of the problems with breeding good birds is you could have a great pair of breeders in your loft and never have them paired together theres to much luck involved in picking the right cock and hen that will click and breed you winners it can take you years to find them when youre only breeding maybe 4 youngsters from them to race so this was my reason to try something that would find the pairs that click and breed winners and i found it starting from scratch first pick out 3 or 4 cocks if they not won anything or your just starting out choose the best bred cocks or cocks whose pairents or grandpairents have won and give these cocks a nest box with plenty of room mine are in single compartments but a good size nest box will do let the cocks claim there box next pick hens the same way as you picked the cocks best bred or closest bred to winners and put them in with the cocks and make sure your hens are not fat or they take ages to lay minds are on 100 percent barley for at least a month and the week be i pair them i even cut the barley back let them rear the first pair and as soon as the hen lays her ist egg of 2nd pair lift it and put it in an old egg box and put a dummy in then lift 2nd egg and put in your egg box mark which pair there from keep the egg box on top of a cuboard at room temp pack the egg box with tissue paper to hold the eggs on there side then just turn the box over every night this stops the yoke sinking to the bottom and sticking to the shell and wipe them once a week with a damp cloth to stop them drying out or a wee fine spray with water you should get 99 to 100 percent hatch up to 6 weeks but a month does me this gives you time get feeders or yearling down to float them under depending on how many birds your working with take 4to8 yb off each pair storing and floating eggs when you have birds to put them under then pick anothere 3 hens and store and float another 4 6 or 8 from the same cock and change the hen again i bred 16 from each cock with four different hens the first year once you get the hang of it you learn how to plan to to have feeders paired ready to float if you think your not going to have feeders ready within six weeks just let the pair rear them till just on hard feeding about 7 8 days then put under a pair that been on eggs 12 days or more and they should take them ok of course all this is a waste of time if you dont train and race the youngsters hard to find out the best youngbird winners or the pair with the most youngbirds left after the yb racing is over the pairs that bred the best or steadyest yb go back together the next year and the cocks that failed are replaced with different cocks and worked the sameway the cocks that failed are kept till there youngsters get to the coast as yearlings then i review them again if still nothing off them showing potential there out for good put on the road or used as feeders when i find a pair that click i will breed 16 to 20 off them every year using the same method its mostly my yearlings i use for rearing the the stock cocks yb as i dont breed from them till they win i now have 16 pair of proven breeders in a very short time that would have taken me 15 years or more to find i also inbreed and line breed back to the best breeders and best winners and thats how i work it andy hope someone finds it helpfull

no matter what question I seem to put your way , you always "teach me" something Walter you've given me lots to think about once again .

[walterboswell59]

thanks andy i try my best m8 if one person gets something out of it im happy

[walterboswell59]

forgot to say i also do the same with hens that are breeding winners i run them with 3 or 4 cocks and switch 16 or more eggs off her

[MIK]

forgot to say i also do the same with hens that are breeding winners i run them with 3 or 4 cocks and switch 16 or more eggs off her

 

 

16 eggs of one hen in one year i think is far too much Walter....good breeding hens need to be looked after. At that rate they wont last long..jmo

 

but do agree with cock system

 

atb

Mick

[Guest bigda]

walter would you breed more breeders, than racers using your method, or is it your way of finding out what will breed better race birds

[Gogga]

Assuming that you have 3 good cocks and 3 good hens, the beauty of Walter’s system is that you can pair up your stock birds on or about 1st December and you would be ringing your first six youngsters on, or around, 5th/6th January. Your 11th and 12th youngsters would be weaned off, on or around, 21st April. Therefore, you would be able to get, at the least, 2 months’ worth of darkening for your 3rd round of youngsters. From these 6 stock birds, you could produce 36 youngsters of good or reasonable quality.

 

The advantages/disadvantages if you employed the bull system (compared to Walter’s system) are that you would have to have 9 pairs to reach the same goal. Your best cock would father 20 young birds (2 each from the 9 hens and a further 2 from his own hen). Your 2nd and 3rd best cocks would father 2 youngsters each and the other 6 cocks would father 12 youngsters, making a total of 36 birds, and having the 2nd round weaned off on, or around, 27th February.

 

Of course you could start again with the bull system after the 2nd round and your best cock fathering a further 18 youngsters and still have enough time to carry out the dark system. This way you would have 54 youngsters but get to test out more of your youngsters and stock cocks and hens.

 

Six-and-two-threes I think Walter, I may be looking at both systems the wrong way but what do other people think?

[hotrod]

I select my breeders by pairing best to best as my first consideration. Then I will deliberately select unrelated birds so that I will crossbreed. I do not breed from hens that are more that 3 years old and I like to pair young hens to older cocks. The birds that I most value are hens that have won well as youngsters from fathers who have done well at Fed level with siblings that have scored well. I never pair distance to sprint because I don't think it works too well. It is always like to like. I am finding that I still breed birds that are not up to standard but I also breed some really great birds these days. I think that I will need to carry on breeding in this way for a while yet before I will be happy with the percentage of top pigeons is acceptable to me.

 

Not breeding off hens over 3 yrs old .."? Never heard of anyone doing this ,she is still young at 3 , to me your always looking for the hen that lays the GOLDEN EGG. , and try and manage her so she keep laying up to x12/13. Yrs old , many a top pigeon off (old) hens .

[walterboswell59]

walter would you breed more breeders, than racers using your method, or is it your way of finding out what will breed better race birds

both da if there yb dont perform at racing there out the breeding team m8 i train hard and race hard to find them out there not all good ones the birds that dont win something racing are not bred from only those whose yb and yearlings are winners or there in abundance after two seasons hard training and racing and ready to go the national as 2 year olds are left then i ease up on them when they have proved there worth

[walterboswell59]

16 eggs of one hen in one year i think is far too much Walter....good breeding hens need to be looked after. At that rate they wont last long..jmo

 

but do agree with cock system

 

atb

Mick

its a lot mick but no problem to the hen the whole point is to get a good team of birds now not 1 or 2 a year for 10 or 12 years im 60 mick might not be here in 10or12 years lol my hens run out of eggs at 9 or 10 this way yes but thats ok because im always finding new younger breeders to replace them as for the age thing the yb that won the last race for me this year 1st club 5th sect 11 th open 1500 birds was bred from my 17 yr old cock and a ten year old hen reared by a pair of yearlings so age makes no difference to good breeders its rearing a healthy younster from them thats more important m8 hope this helps

[Tony C]

A bit off topic:

 

The amount of eggs a hen will lay in a lifetime is determined the day it hatches out of the egg, it is regarded this figure is between 50-80. Consequently the more eggs you take from a hen a year determines the age she will stop producing.

[greenlands]

Good post Walter,thank you for sharing

[walterboswell59]

A bit off topic:

 

The amount of eggs a hen will lay in a lifetime is determined the day it hatches out of the egg, it is regarded this figure is between 50-80. Consequently the more eggs you take from a hen a year determines the age she will stop producing.

correct tony some less some more m8 but with my way you find another one or two great breeders every year or every second year if your top hen bred a winner every nest i would only breed 6 or 8 from her but these hens are few and far between m8 my way of thinking is if you have a hen that breeds you one winner from 6 eggs per year for 10 years is good but breeding 10 firsts in three years is bettter and another allways turns up every other year once you find your best breeders then you can ease up on them but like i say all this is waste of time if you dont work them hard to find them out as this is the key to finding your best breeding stock