Shu Ets Guidance

[walterboswell59]

alex as a matter of interest what kind of traps did you have before

now ithink of it did the rpra guys not have to put a single bob wire on each arch with spring so they could use them

[walterboswell59]

this trap fckd also bird can time in turn about and .*expletive removed* off no good unless you want to take a chance .

pad might be on floor of box billy cant see

[William Reid]

Walter are you talking about my trap or the red star one don't understand the cant see .

Or do I have to bring you out more glasses ya blind old .... :lol: :lol:

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Hi John

 

Question IS the Unikon ETS trap I purchased from Petron legal or not

Simple yes or no

Cheers

Homer 49

 

The inside of your loft (rule 2) is the cubic area internally once the external doors are closed, therefor once you close the landing board to the closed position, pigeons cant be timed once this happens. Your traps are spot on.

 

Really cant believe this subject is still being brought up.

 

see shu rules as of 2012 below.

 

 

 

 

 

RULES FOR ELECTRONIC TIMING SYSTEMS (ETS)

An up-to-date list of SHU Approved ETS is available from the SHU Office

For Rules governing clocks requiring rubber rings – See SHU Clock Rules

The following separate rules apply to Electronic Timing Systems (ETS):

RULES

1. The only ETS recognised will be those approved by the SHU as amended

from time to time REFER TO SHU OFFICE

2. Electronic Timing Systems must be fitted within the loft.

3. Permanent records to be retained by the club.

4. Only versions of software approved by SHU are acceptable.

5. Access Codes, electronic key and Club system must be administered by

person authorised by the Club.

6. Rubber Rings are not required with ETS. Where race organisers use

Double Rubber Rings as safeguard, entries fitted with ETS can also be

double rung.

7. A) Clubs with Electronic Radio Clock Master Timer and Master GPS do

not require to get checks from Federation Master Timers but must have

their radio clocks/Master GPS checked and registered annually with the

Federation.

Clubs without Radio Master Timer/Master GPS must manually set and

check times with Federation Master Timer

8. Organisation Officials have the right to inspect trapping system used.

9. ETS can only record the arrival time after the pigeon has entered the loft.

10. In the event of an escape, where required, ETS birds must have their

official Union ID Ring Number recorded.

11. Assignment or marking of pigeons to be carried out by personnel

authorised by Organisation

11(a) Where a member has rings assigned to his ETS by authorised personnel

out with the club, said member must supply his organisation with a print out of all

the birds so assigned a minimum of 14 days prior to first race, unless by special

arrangement with his organisation23

11( After assignment of ETS rings, where Rules 11 and 11(a) have been

adhered to, there is no requirement for ETS systems to be returned to the

organisation 14 days prior to racing

12. Competitor’s names, race and date to be recorded on all ETS print outs

for race, and signed by ETS/Clock Setter/Convenor, or appointed

Club/Organisation Official, and retained for one year or following AGM.

13. Only Electronic Rings purchased from the Scottish Homing Union can be

used with ETS.

14. ETS do not require to be controlled.

15. Operating procedures before, during and after races should be in

accordance with manufacturer’s instructions. Responsibility for providing

manufacturers instruction manual to organisations rest with the owner of

the ETS.

16. The Club/Organisation has the power to detain any ETS they consider

doubtful.

17. In the event of an ETS failing to record arrival time, on presenting pigeon

with assigned ETS ring at checking station, member will be credited with

checking time.

18. In the event of ETS variation, calculation to be made as per example in

SHU Rule Book.

19. Organisations that promote races may determine times when ETS will be

checked after timing of birds, and ETS, where possible, must be checked

on day birds are timed.

20. The race progress report produced by ETS is an accepted record of any

pigeons timed in on a race that takes more than one day. Two copies of

the race report to be taken which will both be signed by the clock checker

and the fancier. One copy will be held by the organisation and the other

by the fancier. The ETS clock will still be struck off at the later date.

21. All ETS clocks, loft base units, loft memory modules and loft clocks must

have manufacturer’s hologram protection seals or manufacturer’s security

seals. SHU Federation/Club officials to have the right to check the

holograms or seals at any time.

[Pompey Mick]

ETS pads are virtually self policing in reference to the positioning of them. The birds must walk over the pas to ensure that it is recorded,and the only place you can guarantee that to happen is at the loft entrance. Even then the pad needs to be on the inside with an entrance hole of a size to force the bird to land and walk across the pad. Pads positioned outside the entrance hole can be 'skimmed' by a keen bird with the result that no time is recorded.

Trapping and ETS should never be mentioned in the same breath. ETS has done away with the need to 'trap' a pigeon because there is no need to grab a bird on return to forcibly remove a rubber race ring and clock it in. That is the way it used to have to be done, no longer the case as we have progressed to the 21st Century and it's time to let go of the past.

[walterboswell59]

rule 9 states ets can only record after bird enters the loft it does not say time then enter the loft an who sits with there traps shut with ets on arace day come off it people are bending the rules to gain advantage the shu need to make this rule clear does the bird need to be inside the loft or not not half in half out or not really inside but if you shut adoor not really outside what is that allabout if the bird has enterd the loft it should not be able to come back out and should not be able to time unless its right inside end of

[Guest darren cantrill]

as with everything a specific rule needs sorting im under the governance of the rpra not the shu but surely the rule should be if the bird is within the loft period then designate if a sputnik, trap or any other method of trapping is within the rule i.e corridor trapping through open door bird lands runs onto pad through bob wires and into section does the pad need to be on the inside or outside of the bobwires as the bird is in the loft!!! the manipulation of the rule is the problem some people will manipulate the rules to their advantage everyone should set up how they would like to within the non specific rules i.e within the loft and the members should check each others out if you aint happy with someones set up 10 pads placed together in a corridor is over the top but is it favourable to 1 pad situated infront of bobwires but inside the loft you the members decide and get your delegates to vote its a mine field but id go with a specific rule for open door trapping and a specific rule for sputnik or landing board trapping but hey it aint up to me its bad enough going round other peoples lofts and seeing pads everywhere you look lol im on a landing board system and my bird clocks after it goes through bobwires I topped the fed last year running in and catching them and taking the rubber off same bird should of topped the fed again but was a little slower trapping as he new what was coming hopefully with ets shouldn't be a problem this year I hope lol

[Guest bigda]

ETS pads are virtually self policing in reference to the positioning of them. The birds must walk over the pas to ensure that it is recorded,and the only place you can guarantee that to happen is at the loft entrance. Even then the pad needs to be on the inside with an entrance hole of a size to force the bird to land and walk across the pad. Pads positioned outside the entrance hole can be 'skimmed' by a keen bird with the result that no time is recorded.

Trapping and ETS should never be mentioned in the same breath. ETS has done away with the need to 'trap' a pigeon because there is no need to grab a bird on return to forcibly remove a rubber race ring and clock it in. That is the way it used to have to be done, no longer the case as we have progressed to the 21st Century and it's time to let go of the past.

 

 

yes i would agree with this walk through idea no trap set up bird can have freedom of the loft but once inside the fancier has the choice to lock the bird away for the next arrival, the reason i say this as every club member has a right to use the ets system

it is no use comparing apples with pairs you either want to use it or not why would you want to swipe your bird over a pad making the bird not wanting to trap again that's why lander tunnel would be the best for all using the same system, and there is on quarrel

[Guest bigda]

Hi

Have just installed a Petron trap as showen are you saying

this trap is not legal Advert says designed for Unikon ETS

 

 

with alexs trap here if it was pushed in say till the tunnel was flush with the front of the shed and the bird walked into the tunnel from the landing board would it be inside the shed or not

[walterboswell59]

with alexs trap here if it was pushed in say till the tunnel was flush with the front of the shed and the bird walked into the tunnel from the landing board would it be inside the shed or not

not

[Guest H@wkBait]

id say yes part of ur trap can be inside your loft

[peter pandy]

We as "fanciers" have just squabled our way out of having ETS batteries being changed cheaply and have moved on to slagging the type of trap we can legally operate !!. Is it not possible to use common sense in these debates or is it as usual. I dont have it so you are not getting it.

Let me say here and now that I have the Petron Unicon Trap and will contest anyone to say it is illegal and would base any complaint on the following reasons.

1]. My entire system is within the loft as per requirment of SHU rules.

 

2]. The Petron landing Board is the only part on the exterior of my loft.

 

3]. If their was an objection to the fact that birds could if they wish turn round and take flight after they had been registered, I would base any appeal on the following grounds, that I like many have witnessed on occasions birds coming back out of a Sputnick Trap after registering on a pad inside the sputnick yet outside the perimeter of the loft.

 

It is a pity that certain "fanciers" are coming to conclusions without looking at all the facts and their minds are made up without deliberations which could in effect open up a can of worms for all on ETS.

[R.A.M.C.63]

how u post photos on here, i,ll put mine up, 4 some feedbak, cheers boys,

[Guest H@wkBait]

i think the trapping system should be the least of the ets peoples worrys what about these hand held scanning guns that can be modified to clock birds in on the roof of ya house? lol

[Guest bigda]

not

 

 

walter if the tunnel is in the inside of your shed what is the problem there is no rule

about going through bob wires and for by, if the doo goes through the tunnel and the pad is there 6" inside that to me is as good as the birds being in its box , we have stalltraps legal thimbless clocks, so why not that, and every fancier can have the same set up that uses ETS only hope the wee macs dont get it as the fed places are hard to get with him and a thimbless clock they stop after timing in 10 the ets will keep runing on

[William Reid]

how u post photos on here, i,ll put mine up, 4 some feedbak, cheers boys,

Hope it doesn't take you as long as it takes me :lol: :lol:

[HOMER49]

rule 9 states ets can only record after bird enters the loft it does not say time then enter the loft an who sits with there traps shut with ets on arace day come off it people are bending the rules to gain advantage the shu need to make this rule clear does the bird need to be inside the loft or not not half in half out or not really inside but if you shut adoor not really outside what is that allabout if the bird has enterd the loft it should not be able to come back out and should not be able to time unless its right inside end of

 

Hi

Thanks Gareth for posting up the SHU rules on ETS timing

My reading is when the landing is closed ever thing beyond

that is IN THE LOFT Nothing about threshold or confinement

And Mr Boswell I have no intention of bending the rules

YOU JUST CANT READ

Also have Petron Stall traps which like ever one else

I timed the bird outside the loft and they could turn

and come out again as they did many times as the bob

wires prevented them from entering the loft

BUT THE TRAP IS PART OF THE LOFT

Cheers

Homer 49

[Guest big50cal]

You are a funny man. Homer49!!! My trap is on my house roof.

[R.A.M.C.63]

Billy asked this Q bout year ago, cudna de it then gave up after 6weeks, dont bother tryn noo, didnt think it was user friendly, went on other site 1st atempt 2mins photos up,

believe me thats GOOD 4 ME :lol: but i,v altered my traps 4 ETS and took photos so this is subject at hand, can but try

[billt]

I can't believe that people think they need to install their trap inside the loft, the trap would always be deemed to be a part of the loft whether it protruded 2ft. or 6ft.

[yeboah]

What about the years that people clocked using a stall trap whilst they were standing outside clocking in never heard of any complaints there ,at the end of the day if your bird aint up with he leaders it won't matter what system is used ,I for one only wish as much effort was put into eradicating the falcon problem as there is with trivial issues .

[Guest big50cal]

its still better on your house roof :partick-thistle-Crest:

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

What about the years that people clocked using a stall trap whilst they were standing outside clocking in never heard of any complaints there ,at the end of the day if your bird aint up with he leaders it won't matter what system is used ,I for one only wish as much effort was put into eradicating the falcon problem as there is with trivial issues .

:emoticon-0137-clapping: spot on.

[HOMER49]

You are a funny man. Homer49!!! My trap is on my house roof.

 

Hi

If thats where your loft is fine

Cheers

Homer 49

[walterboswell59]

Hi

Thanks Gareth for posting up the SHU rules on ETS timing

My reading is when the landing is closed ever thing beyond

that is IN THE LOFT Nothing about threshold or confinement

And Mr Boswell I have no intention of bending the rules

YOU JUST CANT READ

Also have Petron Stall traps which like ever one else

I timed the bird outside the loft and they could turn

and come out again as they did many times as the bob

wires prevented them from entering the loft

BUT THE TRAP IS PART OF THE LOFT

Cheers

Homer 49

homer does not matter how you word it your bird can time without going in the loft and thats not right as for the stall trap rubbish the difference is if it got out the stalltrap you were not timed in with the trap you have your timed whether its in or not its up to the guys in your club now as the fed president agrees with me m8