Eyesign

[Taylorsloft]

some of my pigeons

[Taylorsloft]

eyes

[THE FIFER]

some of my pigeons

[/quote

 

 

Like the first and third, in the first lot and the first in the second

[Wiley]

I know nothing about eyes, I once studied it for a while, but came to the conclusion I was none the wiser, but what I will say when you give an eyesign enthusiast a pigeon and say it's 4x 1st they say it's a racing eye, then handle them your best stock, they say it's a breeding eye. Taylor can I ask out of all the eyes what was the best breeder and what was the best racer?

[alex young]

Great photo's

[blackswan]

how many of these are off the good fantail hen?

[Taylorsloft]

gabby vandenabeele stock cock sire of my best racing cock

[Taylorsloft]

my best racing cock

[greenlands]

Have you got a photo of the dams eye ?

[Taylorsloft]

Have you got a photo of the dams eye ?

 

 

no she was lost breaking

[Taylorsloft]

gabby vandenabeele hen flew clermont 2011 alencon and clermont 2012

[Guest Owen]

Sorry fellers but I don't doubt the the eyes shown on these photos are from outstanding pigeons but to to say that anyone can value a pigeon's racing or breeding capabilities by gazing into their eyes has to be the biggest load of rubbish possible.

I do not believe that there are short cuts to finding top racers. If a person keeps testing the birds on a fairly narrow test criteria, such as sprint or distance, and continually selects the ones that succeed it is almost impossible not to find the ones that are best at that particular task. Obviously if a certain type of eye is of benefit to the bird it will become part of the resulting specimen.

Genetics works best when the number of factors selected for are at the absolute minimum. So rather than select for grizzles with a certain eye and 11 flights and a fast wing beat it works better when it is just, for example, birds that win over say 60 miles ignoring all else.

No professional geneticist would dream of selecting laying chicken of a certain colour, with a comb of a certain shape, with an extra toe and blue eyes. They simply count the eggs the birds lay and select the ones that lay the most eggs regardless of all else.

As for my own approach to my pigeons, I find that I have got to like the winners best. And what ever their physical characteristics I soon find a soft spot for the ones that are best at their job. The funny thing is that I never peer into their eyes, look at their wing, check the colour of their beast skin or anything else like that. I just ensure that they are in the best health possible, trained really well and leave the rest to Nature.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with these remarks but I feel that it important to expose this sort of nonsense because Pigeon Racing can be very hard to succeed at and I think it would be a crying shame if people new to the sport get carried away with this stuff which can and will waste their time and money. I reckon that it would be far better if they put their efforts into building up a team of competant racers and concentrating on managing them well.

[fastblack]

Sorry fellers but I don't doubt the the eyes shown on these photos are from outstanding pigeons but to to say that anyone can value a pigeon's racing or breeding capabilities by gazing into their eyes has to be the biggest load of rubbish possible.

I do not believe that there are short cuts to finding top racers. If a person keeps testing the birds on a fairly narrow test criteria, such as sprint or distance, and continually selects the ones that succeed it is almost impossible not to find the ones that are best at that particular task. Obviously if a certain type of eye is of benefit to the bird it will become part of the resulting specimen.

Genetics works best when the number of factors selected for are at the absolute minimum. So rather than select for grizzles with a certain eye and 11 flights and a fast wing beat it works better when it is just, for example, birds that win over say 60 miles ignoring all else.

No professional geneticist would dream of selecting laying chicken of a certain colour, with a comb of a certain shape, with an extra toe and blue eyes. They simply count the eggs the birds lay and select the ones that lay the most eggs regardless of all else.

As for my own approach to my pigeons, I find that I have got to like the winners best. And what ever their physical characteristics I soon find a soft spot for the ones that are best at their job. The funny thing is that I never peer into their eyes, look at their wing, check the colour of their beast skin or anything else like that. I just ensure that they are in the best health possible, trained really well and leave the rest to Nature.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with these remarks but I feel that it important to expose this sort of nonsense because Pigeon Racing can be very hard to succeed at and I think it would be a crying shame if people new to the sport get carried away with this stuff which can and will waste their time and money. I reckon that it would be far better if they put their efforts into building up a team of competant racers and concentrating on managing them well.

here here

[dal2]

Sorry fellers but I don't doubt the the eyes shown on these photos are from outstanding pigeons but to to say that anyone can value a pigeon's racing or breeding capabilities by gazing into their eyes has to be the biggest load of rubbish possible.

I do not believe that there are short cuts to finding top racers. If a person keeps testing the birds on a fairly narrow test criteria, such as sprint or distance, and continually selects the ones that succeed it is almost impossible not to find the ones that are best at that particular task. Obviously if a certain type of eye is of benefit to the bird it will become part of the resulting specimen.

Genetics works best when the number of factors selected for are at the absolute minimum. So rather than select for grizzles with a certain eye and 11 flights and a fast wing beat it works better when it is just, for example, birds that win over say 60 miles ignoring all else.

No professional geneticist would dream of selecting laying chicken of a certain colour, with a comb of a certain shape, with an extra toe and blue eyes. They simply count the eggs the birds lay and select the ones that lay the most eggs regardless of all else.

As for my own approach to my pigeons, I find that I have got to like the winners best. And what ever their physical characteristics I soon find a soft spot for the ones that are best at their job. The funny thing is that I never peer into their eyes, look at their wing, check the colour of their beast skin or anything else like that. I just ensure that they are in the best health possible, trained really well and leave the rest to Nature.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with these remarks but I feel that it important to expose this sort of nonsense because Pigeon Racing can be very hard to succeed at and I think it would be a crying shame if people new to the sport get carried away with this stuff which can and will waste their time and money. I reckon that it would be far better if they put their efforts into building up a team of competant racers and concentrating on managing them well.

 

Team Sky and the British olympic team have a MINIMAL GAINS team that work hard to find small gains anywhere they can within their sport??? You have came on and rubbished some values that are held by a lot of fanciers in their hobby??

Are you seriously telling me you never look at the wing of your birds??? I doubt it???

Do you not put any relevance on the state of moult? Surely if anybody intended to race a natural program with hens then the nest cycle would affect the wing moult during nest condition???

I respect your views but surely the goal posts are diffo for each fancier???

Please give the new start or knowledge seeker more pointers than buy good birds and pair them together!!!You will know as well as ME that that good birds breed sh** occasionally!!!How would the fancier pick the wheat from the chaff??? BASKET you will say!!! BUT IN THIS ERA BASKET ILL DECIMATE!!!!

[sammy]

Team Sky and the British olympic team have a MINIMAL GAINS team that work hard to find small gains anywhere they can within their sport??? You have came on and rubbished some values that are held by a lot of fanciers in their hobby??

Are you seriously telling me you never look at the wing of your birds??? I doubt it???

Do you not put any relevance on the state of moult? Surely if anybody intended to race a natural program with hens then the nest cycle would affect the wing moult during nest condition???

I respect your views but surely the goal posts are diffo for each fancier???

Please give the new start or knowledge seeker more pointers than buy good birds and pair them together!!!You will know as well as ME that that good birds breed sh** occasionally!!!How would the fancier pick the wheat from the chaff??? BASKET you will say!!! BUT IN THIS ERA BASKET ILL DECIMATE!!!!

HERE HERE :emoticon-0137-clapping:

[Guest bigda]

if I

[Guest Basin View]

LIke 3, but will go for 5.

[R.A.M.C.63]

Intresting eyes, birds look realy heathly, especialy Vanderbeele hen.

but no.6 for me. jmo

[Guest Owen]

dal2

I am sorry that I have offended you but if you want aline yourself with what is patiently a load of rubbish then it was going to happen. Someone would be bound to state what is an obvious truth. However, I totally agree that winning pigeon races is about attention to detail. It is just a question of deciding where a person should direct their attention. You are right when you point out that the best birds will produce rubbish from the what we think are best of pairings. This is an inevitable part of breeding animals and birds and what makes the whole thing interesting and an art form. There are ways that a breeder can reduce the effects of pairings that are not suited but I can go into that another time.

Do I look at my birds carefully? Well yes I do and in minute detail but as to whether or not I try to draw conclusions from what I see is another matter. I am extremely interested in the health and physical welbeing of my birds because it matters. It matters a great deal that they are capable of winning races because that is what I want from my birds.

I am sure that there are many attributes that go to make up a top champion pigeon and I know that it would not be possible to list them all because many of these attributes are mental and or phycological in nature. Some things we can influence such as training because pigeons are not dumb, they learn. And that is a skill we can become experienced in. It is the same with nutrition, health management and other things but I draw a line at unproven nonsense such as the so called theories. There are plenty of facts that are known and proven to learn and understand before we join the land of fantasy.

[Guest bigda]

dal2

I am sorry that I have offended you but if you want aline yourself with what is patiently a load of rubbish then it was going to happen. Someone would be bound to state what is an obvious truth. However, I totally agree that winning pigeon races is about attention to detail. It is just a question of deciding where a person should direct their attention. You are right when you point out that the best birds will produce rubbish from the what we think are best of pairings. This is an inevitable part of breeding animals and birds and what makes the whole thing interesting and an art form. There are ways that a breeder can reduce the effects of pairings that are not suited but I can go into that another time.

Do I look at my birds carefully? Well yes I do and in minute detail but as to whether or not I try to draw conclusions from what I see is another matter. I am extremely interested in the health and physical welbeing of my birds because it matters. It matters a great deal that they are capable of winning races because that is what I want from my birds.

I am sure that there are many attributes that go to make up a top champion pigeon and I know that it would not be possible to list them all because many of these attributes are mental and or phycological in nature. Some things we can influence such as training because pigeons are not dumb, they learn. And that is a skill we can become experienced in. It is the same with nutrition, health management and other things but I draw a line at unproven nonsense such as the so called theories. There are plenty of facts that are known and proven to learn and understand before we join the land of fantasy.

 

 

owen

[Wiley]

owen if you had to let say brian may into your shed and the bet, was what he picked out say just 2 doos from your shed you would let him keep them would you be up for that.

 

Would he bring his guitar?

[nagid]

Would he bring his guitar?

aye good wiley.better looking up there ass

[Guest Owen]

bigda

if you want to arrange for someone to look at my birds you are welcome to do it. However, there is no way that I will give any of my adult racing cocks away. There are 15 of them and every one has scored in the first 6 of the Federation either in their young bird year or their yearling year so he would have a very easy job I would think.

I think you should know that I have looked at Eyesign in a lot of depth. I still have the original book that started it all by S.W.E. Bishop.

Common sense will tell you that it is perfectly possible to deliberately breed pigeons that excel in any form of eye you choose to develop. However, if this technique was of any value Professional Geneticist would have been using it years ago.

There is only one way to recognise top racing pigeons and there is only one way to breed top racing pigeons. I accept that sometimes a person can be lucky and have fortunate accident and produce a Champion from a pair of Strappers but if someone wants to operate a planned approach to breeding it has to be by progeny testing followed by selective breeding.

I don't think I would have been bothered to reply to the original post on this subject but for the fact that I resent the fact that people are trying to persuade novices that there are easy routes to winning pigeon races. There are not. All livestock management is about selective breeding and testing the progeny. Anything else is just superstitious rubbish.

I think it would be far better if those who have succeeded were to explain things in a way that those who are struggling can understand rather than misleading them in this way.

At the moment there are people out there who are desperate for some sign of success but just can not get there. This benefits the sellers of pigeons and the purveyors of crackpot notions that are offered to them like these so called theories.

I will make a promise right here and now. I will challenge every so called theorist to prove his theory as often as I see one and I will try to help novices to understand what they have to do to win a race or two without feeling that they have to spend vast sums of money to do so.

[dal2]

bigda

if you want to arrange for someone to look at my birds you are welcome to do it. However, there is no way that I will give any of my adult racing cocks away. There are 15 of them and every one has scored in the first 6 of the Federation either in their young bird year or their yearling year so he would have a very easy job I would think.

I think you should know that I have looked at Eyesign in a lot of depth. I still have the original book that started it all by S.W.E. Bishop.

Common sense will tell you that it is perfectly possible to deliberately breed pigeons that excel in any form of eye you choose to develop. However, if this technique was of any value Professional Geneticist would have been using it years ago.

There is only one way to recognise top racing pigeons and there is only one way to breed top racing pigeons. I accept that sometimes a person can be lucky and have fortunate accident and produce a Champion from a pair of Strappers but if someone wants to operate a planned approach to breeding it has to be by progeny testing followed by selective breeding.

I don't think I would have been bothered to reply to the original post on this subject but for the fact that I resent the fact that people are trying to persuade novices that there are easy routes to winning pigeon races. There are not. All livestock management is about selective breeding and testing the progeny. Anything else is just superstitious rubbish.

I think it would be far better if those who have succeeded were to explain things in a way that those who are struggling can understand rather than misleading them in this way.

At the moment there are people out there who are desperate for some sign of success but just can not get there. This benefits the sellers of pigeons and the purveyors of crackpot notions that are offered to them like these so called theories.

I will make a promise right here and now. I will challenge every so called theorist to prove his theory as often as I see one and I will try to help novices to understand what they have to do to win a race or two without feeling that they have to spend vast sums of money to do so.

 

All that you have said is true! The eyesign theory alone wont make you a great fancier, either will any of the others,!!!

What I was trying to point out was that any new start lookin for advice and reading your post would be of the mind that he simply pairs good to good to get decent ybs and that when he is racing these as old birds that he should not bother handling his bird to inspect the wing moult or anything else???

Yes the eyesign is a THEORY like many others but I am sure that top class fanciers look at things from ALL angles???

Formula 1 teams do not say 'we have the quickest driver so no need for any improvement to the car'.

 

 

Owen, I am not pissed off with anything that you have said and agree with much, but lets get a balanced view and not just dismiss it and say the rest that dont agree are crackpots!!!

Many theories, many potions, many families, many distances and MANY ROADS LEAD TO ROME?????

 

Well done and thanks for the discussion

[Novice]

I am neither a believer or a non believer in eye theories.

However, I do know the afore mentioned Brian May and have listened to his presentation on several occasions.

Brian is a gentleman and as honest as the day is long.

Over the years he has been a great benefactor of my federation supporting it with donations of pigeons any time we ask.

Having said that Brian will tell you that looking into the eye is a guide to intelligence and health. He will also state that the form of the bird can be determined by monitoring the composition of the sign.

To be a winner a bird must also posess unseen qualities.

Brian's health is failing now and he has had several periods of ill health.

One aspect of his work which really impressed me was the fact that he can show slides of his own eyes before and after having suffered a stroke.

He points out where the iris has been scarred during this illness.

As I stated I am neither for nor against any theory but before decrying any of them we really need to have an in depth understanding of that theory.